Cardinal
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Posts posted by Cardinal
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But, to get to the reason for the thread,
Was Guentzel a scap goat? Was the wrong coach eased out? What are the players saying about Guentzel leaving? How is this going to affect the Goofs's program?
Those are all big unknowns at this point, and I think that a majority of those questions can only be answered on the ice over the coming years. If the team flops the next few years, then they'll likely be changes. If last year's down season was a blip on the radar and they come back strong in the coming years, then I think Lucia and/or Hill will be vindicated. Time will tell...
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From Dave Bergr's Blog http://blog.siouxsports.com/2008/03/08/fri...st-cloud-state/
There in lies a huge difference between the programs.
I agree that there's a touch of that; to what degree I'm not sure, and in the end, the results on the ice are what matters. I know people on this board don't think so, but the Gophers have had a pretty good run over the last few years. Yes, some bad games / stretches have come along the way, but that happens. The fact is they've had as much success as anyone in college hockey during Lucia's tenure, no matter how you want to define "success." They've captured every type of banner available (DQ Cup too!), had a Hobey Baker winner, first team All-Americans, guys going to the NHL and being factors, etc.
You guys might not like Lucia (though I'm not sure Sioux fans would like anybody who coached the Gophers), but to ignore the success to to try to paint him in a bad light at this point is foolish. The same can be said for Gopher fans who unleash unprovoked attacks on Hakstol. Most of the Hak-bashing done by Gopher fans comes on the heels of Lucia ripping by UND fans, IMO.
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I don't understand it. Please explain.
The logic is that you don't want to go balls to the wall for a game that, in most cases, doesn't mean a whole lot, especially with the NCAA tournament on the horizon. Obvioulsy things like PairWise rankings could make the game VERY meaningful, but that's on a case-by-case basis.
Everyone points to the Holy Cross year as a reason why you take the third place game seriously, but there are plenty of examples where a team has sputtered late in the season or lost their last non-NCAA game but still done very well in the NCAAs, so I feel that logic is slightly flawed. And during the Final Five prior to the HC game, the Gophers played a dramatic, OT game on Friday night with SCSU and had to turn around and play a very good UW team the next afternoon. They were SOL from the second they stepped on the ice, IMO, and I think most teams would have faced a similar fate given that predicament.
I don't think the Gophers threw the game or anything, and I certainly don't believe that's what Lucia means when his words tend to "devalue" the game.
There's a reason that the other conferences have got rid of the third place game: it's not worth having. The only reason the WCHA keeps it around is because of the money they can generate off of it that other conference's can't because of the location of the Xcel Energy Center, the great fan bases that travel, etc.
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No,that was Lucia. I seem to remember a quote attributed to him saying at a F5, that the only game worth playing well or with your all was the one for first place, third place didn't matter.
First place in a conference tourney is a lot different than winning an NCAA title. I don't agree with Lucia's theory about how third place games aren't worth going for, but I can understand where he's coming from and can respect his thinking on it.
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The biggest concern with the underclassmen is that the UofM is becoming Wayzata East. The program is more about Tony and friends (Wehrs, Miller, etc.), than anything else.
Underlying issue between Guentzel and Lucia, was that young Guentzel and young Lucia were fairly even in talent. One had the opportunity to become a Gopher and the other became an Irish.
Tony Lucia has certainly proved his worth over time; add to that the fact that he had offers from the likes of New Hampshire, Michigan, and Notre Dame, and he's not on the roster just because his old man is the coach.
In addition, Wehrs was just fine last year as a freshman who will be a four-year guy, and he also had offers from good D-I schools, including UMD and (I believe) BU. North Dakota also recruited Joey Miller, so he's got to have some talent, no?
Applying that same logic, I'm sure Guentzel's son could have played for Minnesota and done well; why he didn't end up here I don't know. But, don't use the "Wayzata East" logic because all those Wayzata kids have either proved their worth and/or were recruited by other top programs -- including UND.
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I don't know why he didn't get a better look from UND whether or not it had to do with his brother we may never know. But I don't like that people are making it sound like he doesn't have the talent to come in and be a player. Jordy Murray is going to be a good college hockey player. There isn't 1 thing that he is awesome in, he just does a lot of things real well. He will step in and be a solid 3rd, 4th liner for Wisconsin next season working his way up the depth chart the longer he's there. He's not going to be a superstar in the WCHA but is going to hopefully (as a Wisconsin fan) be a 4 year player. He's going to be drafted this summer, hes no push over. There has to be reasons why UND didn't give him a better look.
Because, unlike Wisconsin, they don't have three-quarters of their roster taken up by third / fourth liners.
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One could make the argument that Woogs recruits were staples of the 2002 team since Leopold won the Hobey Baker Memorial and both players were major contributors on the score sheets as well.
I acknowledged they were good / great players, but look at Lucia's recruits on that team: Taffe, Riddle, Paul Martin, Ballard, Potulny, Koalska, etc. I know according to most people on this board they were hacks, they sucked, etc., but most fans would clearly see how good those players were.
Two great players doesn't make or break a team in a sport like hockey.
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Reusse makes mention of unhappy upperclassmen on the Gopher roster.
Need I point out that Blake Wheeler left the Gophers, gave up a senior year, with no signed professional contract.
Do you honestly think he left because he was unhappy? If that was the case he could have left the prior two summers. He did this because of a loophole in the CBA that's going to -- in his eyes / mind -- give him a better chance to get a big contract. He'll have a contract sooner that later.
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Personally I don't think Lucia is that great of a coach I think anyone could have won a national title with the two teams that he had. How long have we heard rumblings from time to time about players not being happy about lucia and his methods. I have to admist that I have enjoyed the implosions down in MPLS the last four seasons. When ever things are going bad for the Goofs the first thing people bring up is that Lucia won an NCAA title with a lot of Doug Woogs recruits.
When Guentzel left Johnny Pohl said on the show beyond the pond that Mikes Guentzel leaving was a huge loss/blow to the program.
1) One could argue that anyone could win a national title with teams Hakstol has had the last few years, but obviously that didn't happen. There are teams every year that have rosters that would indicate they could / should win a title, such as UND's the last few years.
2) "Implosions?" So, let's see: two regular season titles, one WCHA playoff title, All-Americans, etc. Yeah, the Holy Cross loss is terrible, and last season wasn't great (though they still made the most of things at the end when most people -- including myself -- thought they would go down without a fight).
And don't give me this BS that Sioux fans like to spit out about how the NCAA title is all that matters. Convenient excuse considering the lack of banners under Hakstol and the many that have been hung by the Gophers and other teams over that same time period.
3) Three of the four classes on the 2002 team were Lucia recruits. Obviously guys like Leopold and Pohl were big contributors and they were of course Woog recruits, but guys like Ballard, Taffe, Koalska, Riddle, Martin, etc. were Lucia recruits that made a huge difference on that team.
And, by the way, 100 percent of the players on the 2003 title team were Lucia recruits, so explain that one. Must have been the influence of Woog's recruits from the previous year that put them over the top, right?
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I will want to be at the first Caps/Coyotes game that Wheeler and Finley are dressed in. Like a lion after his prey, or an Eagle after a Coyote.
Hopefully Finley takes some skating lessons between now and whenever he decides to go pro ... going to be tough sledding in the NHL, where things are called much more tightly, if you hook / slash everyone that blows by you as he does now.
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Backup is the operative word here - it looks like the Gophers got Brady Hjelle's backup.
Patterson, Kent CR 20 1109:43 10 6 1 1 46 2.49 475 .912
Hjelle, Brady CR 41 2380:07 22 15 4 3 99 2.50 1158 .921
To provide a little logic / background, Patterson developed a sports hernia late last summer that carried into the season. During the 2006-07 season, he was the USHL all-rookie team's goalie. So, while taking nothing away from Hjelle, but Patterson is very talented and proved that -- when healthy -- he's the real deal. Hopefully he can stay healthy moving forward...
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I think these days most people in the upper midwest know about Charley Walters' BS, and I'm not saying this isn't true, but this report came from a note in his column today.
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I think the opponent is pretty random.
In 2001, we played UMN at home in the HoF game (also the grand opening of the Ralph).
In 2003, we played UMD at home in the HoF game.
This past year we played MSU at home in the HoF game.
Minnesota also played Denver in the HOF game a few years ago.
Also, Minnesota is in Grand Forks on January 9-10.
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because of the elevator pissing?
That's what I took it to mean, yes. Hak is tough to read at times, but I'm sure at least a part of him saying that was a low point referred to that incident.
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You could hear Dubay hold back his short laugh after Hakstol mentioned that the Saturday UNH game was a bit of a low-point ...
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I love Ryan Duncan, but I think he will eventually regret it if he leaves next year.
I admire the hell out of him for sticking it out, but in all honesty, he should have left after last season. Not trying to flame here, but Toews is obviously a very special player and most importantly in this situation a great setup man, and that's obviously what Duncan didn't have this year. Oshie is very good, but playmaking isn't going to be his forte at the next level where as Toews is going to be an elite center for the next 15+ years.
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The Gophers are such a soft team, that's why they didn't do anything back. Plus, I'm sure the Gophers did something on the ice that caused them to run into Kangas a handful of times, so it was justified.
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Wow they must both be smart as hell. Good pick-up for Harvard...
It's been confirmed on GPL that Lee has NOT committed to Harvard, though he will be visiting there this summer. Everson verballed a long time ago, so his commitment is solid / true.
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Really I don't think the tDon wants to go there, because I could see some WCHA programs taking a few of his recruits from him.
Just as he would do to other WCHA schools ... kind of the nature of a rule like that, no?
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That is stupid logic. UND finished 3rd nationally last season by losing to B.C. in the Semis. That is higher than the Goofs finished.
Regardless of the logic, you still didn't address his second point regarding some (most?) Sioux fans being hypocrites; Woog's teams were endlessly ripped for not winning the big one but generally coming close. Now the Sioux, who were the clear-cut No. 1 team in the nation back in October and are obviously red-hot right now, have recently done very well during the regular season and league playoffs (though they haven
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Well, this is the 6th year of the game, and I guess it's just tradition for it to be played the Sunday after the tournament. This is going to be only my 2nd year playing, so one of the "old-timers" will have to speak to that.
I think it's played on Sunday since Friday and Saturday mornings would be pretty packed if you had to possibly get into town, play a game, and then get over to the X; would cut into bar time as well. It's always seemed to work best on Sundays, but if we wanted to mix it up next year, I'm not opposed.
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From an opposing fan's perspective, I fear Genoway as much as any player on the Sioux from an offensive perspective, FWIW...
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I disagree about being cheap, it hasn't happened in the past because of the ridiculous cost, its a pleasure to have the opportunity to watch anyway, but I do agree they should leave it to the AA guys. Maybe they are just trying it today and leavin the options open for tomorrow
When Wisconsin visited UAA earlier this year, the games were on the Wisconsin feed of FSN North and they had the local guys in Alaska doing the games; the quality was pretty bad. Say what you want about Frank and Doug (I know they aren't liked on here for obvious reasons; I generally go to each game so I can't really give a fully informed opinion on their quality in recent years) but I'm pretty sure they are a big upgrade over locals in Anchorage calling the games. Plus, like others have said, trying to do something different -- albeit less expensive -- could be kind of cool. Worth a shot at the very least, IMO.
Guentzel
in Men's Hockey
Posted
The biggest of the numerous differences is that Lucia, unlike McHale, as won the big one twice and the smaller ones several times over.