Cardinal
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Posts posted by Cardinal
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Ironic that yet another thread on here that has nothing to do with the Gophers incites "Gopher-bashing" comments...
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One need not be an expert to know that this out of the way Austro pro league does not produce very many NHL players. The fact that only one name has been mentioned proves my point.
The facts are there. To deny them is to deny reality.
Around here? Never!
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Surprising to see another thread on here that has nothing to do with the Gophers turn into a Gopher bash-fest ... the obsession continues.
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I haven't listened yet, but The Scouting News has a interview with Clarke that was done recently available for free.
http://www.thescoutingnews.com/images/stories/clark1.mp3
Also, you technically have to pay for other interviews, but you can do a little guessing with the URLs and get them for free, i.e. a Jeff Jackson interview at http://www.thescoutingnews.com/images/stories/jackson.mp3.
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Ok so we have B.C., Michigan State and Minnesota covered.
The only team you cited that really hasn't had much success in recent years in BU. Notre Dame is certainly well on their way as they've showed the last two seasons.
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they always do - at least as far as the the national scene is concerned - even when they don't
FWIW, noted Sioux haters INCH had the Gophers with the No. 10 overall freshman class in the nation.
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huh? 5 of the last 8. I count 3.
Boston College - 2 (2001 and 2008)
Minnesota - 2 (2002 and 2003)
Michigan State - 1 (2007)
2 + 2 + 1 = 5
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Have you ever noticed that Minnesota, BU, B.C., Michigan, Michigan State, (now add) Notre Dame are always give the 1-10 spots it seems when it comes to in coming freshman rankings. Of course these rankings mean nothing when it comes to titles won.
Considering those teams have accounted for five of the last eight NCAA titles, I'd say the rankings mean a little something, no?
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I think Sprig and Sioux are right Red isn't crazy about them leaving unless they are ready for the next level (NHL) and is a big advocate of them getting their education.
I agree with that, but don't you think Hakstol -- and most other coaches at big-time programs -- feel the same way?
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you find me a quote of red berenson saying he felt a player was ready to leave early...berenson is one of the biggest advocates of 4 year players. also, the "driving them to the airport" quote is meant as more of a challenge, IMO, because most kids leave for farm teams, not the NHL.
Not a direct quote (though I'm sure I could find one if I wanted) but that article I linked to above pretty much sums it up.
"The biggest thing to me was that Red supported it," Jack Johnson, Sr. said Sunday. "He told him, you're doing the right thing."EDIT: Here's another article that has lots of quotes from Red.
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And, the same person that nukes users, deletes post, etc over there comes over here with bs like
Just an FYI that I'm not a moderator on GPL and have no authority / ability to delete posts and/or users. Again, facts don't mean much around here.
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It's a tough situation on a minimum age; if you cannot recruit a kid until he turns, say, 15 years old, then you could start losing kids to major juniors more often, especially the really high-end kids like Clarke. Other NCAA sports really don't have another good option for these kids out there looming.
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The difference is, Red makes a public spectacle of his feelings on kids leaving too early, Hak has not. You show me where Hak has complained publicly about one of his players leaving too early.
I suppose the fact that Red's been coaching at Michigan for 24 years versus four for Hakstol (and thus Red's been burned more often than Hak) might have something to do with him being a little more vocal, but that's just an educated guess / assumption on my part.
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Did you arrive to try and be a jerk today? We remember the quote, concerning Jack Johnson; Red has also been quoted in the past as being very angry over players leaving early, saying that they were not ready. I remember it well, but won't bother to look for the article where it was "quoted".
Good luck, Taylor; we'll be looking for you lined up alongside Matt Greene next fall.
I'm not trying to be a jerk. Hakstol told Chorney he was READY and thus he had no problem with him leaving, which is the exact same philosophy Berenson preaches. I'll trust Berenson's judgment as to whether his player(s) are ready to go pro. Red's problem is with players that AREN'T READY. Find me a quote from Hak saying he agrees that players not ready for the AHL or NHL should sign pro contracts and leave school early.
I understand that anyone that doesn't slurp all that is UND hockey on here isn't looked upon kindly, and the fact I'm a Gopher fan probably doesn't help my cause; that being said, this is a foolish argument for you guys to try and fight at this point. Par for the course around these parts, though...
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that may or may not be true, red is a good coach who is easy to hate if your not a wolverine fan, but that doesn't explain why you are on a sioux hockey site trying to stir the pot? don't you goofies have anything better to do with your time? or you could just talk about it here... http://gopherpucklive.com/
at least there you can tell each other how much better you all are than us idiot sioux fans, and noone would argue. goodbye.
May or may not be true? It's a direct quote. If you consider that with the history he has of getting kids to the NHL, and I don't see much of a reason to doubt him.
Sorry for coming over here and providing a fact that doesn't paint another program in a bad light compared to the almighty Sioux. Continue on...
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no, if it was red berenson he have said toews wasnt ready until he was done with 4 years. i like how hakstol is real with the players. it is the kind of thing that helps gain more respect from the players that are borderline.
Hmm, really? Facts never stood in the way of a good argument over here...
http://www.uscho.com/news/college-hockey/i...nSituation.html
Berenson has been on record saying that -
Chorney was interviewed -- along with fellow Oilers prospect Riley Nash -- on the Pipeline Show last night. You can listen back to the interview here: http://www.thepipelineshow.com/media.php?s...-08-31&sn=3
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Kind of like you and your fellow Gopher fans thought about Wheeler, right?
Well, you have to remember, Wheeler was a stiff to begin with, and when you couple that with Lucia's inability to develop players, ...
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The point isn't that he left. He was ready for the next level. But, he left taking shots at the program and at Lucia. He was interviewed and talked about his "development" suffering at Minnesota. Then, when he left, POI'ers were taking shots at him and saying he wasn't ready for the next level. Comments like "he hasn't showed anything here, how can he think he's ready for the next level", "good luck traveling around in the minors for the next couple years".
Do you remember all those posts from the Gopher faithful? If you don't, you can probably still go back in the Gopher Puck archives and find them. It wasn't Sioux fans ripping him, it was your POI'ers. Then, when he made the big club right off the bat, amnesia set in and everyone suddenly was saying that he was clearly ready for the next level and that's why he left.
The Sioux have a long list of high profile players that have left early, but the difference is that guys like Toews & Oshie stayed an extra year even when their NHL clubs were doing everything possible to get them to sign. It's impossible to find a Sioux player who's left while taking shots at the program and head coach. It's common to find a Gopher player leaving while taking shots at the program and head coach. There are just too many of them to ignore.
Like I said in my post, the root of Johnson's "rift" with Lucia was his lack of quality minutes, in Johnson's mind; I don't think he really came out and said that Lucia wasn't a good coach, but if he did, correct me if I'm wrong. As I also said, any objective onlooker would have agreed that he was the third best defenseman on that team, and that Lucia should not have have caved to his demands (if there were any in-season) to be put on the top pairing just because of his draft status versus those playing around him.
In my opinion, the reason some Gopher fans thought it was not wise of him to stay is because he wasn't that dominant guy that some expected him to be. Were those expectations unreasonable given his position, the league he was playing in, etc.? Yeah, probably. But to see him be pretty good but not great and then go pro probably rubbed some people the wrong way. That being said, rational fans probably realized that given his draft status and the lineup he had to crack, he was going to be an NHL'er from day one, just like Jack Johnson was for a non-playoff team as well. Put either of those two in Detroit's system, as an example, and they're not with the big club.
I'm not trying to put down posters on any board, but I think with SS and GPL in particular, there can be some "fringe" people (i.e. the annual "FIRE HAK!!@1!" threads around here) that tend to me more vocal than others and thus can represent a view that most rational fans don't agree with. Like I said though, that's a two-way street, so one should keep that in mind when making generalizations about team-specific boards.
I agree that, to an extent, there seem to be more "me first" players that end up at Minnesota versus North Dakota. That being said, if I only read SS, one would think that the Gophers have had zero success over the last few years when that's simply not true. Yes, you guys have made it to more Frozen Fours, and that's great; just like it's great that the Gophers have won the regular season title twice and playoff title once over that same stretch. So, both "ways" of doing things seem to pay off. Over time, could this hurt Minnesota? Sure, I guess. But we'll see. As I said, one down season (though still making the NCAAs and making a little noise at the end of what was a dreadful year by Gopher standards isn't too bad all things considered) isn't enough to offset the success they've previously had under Lucia. If you guys want to pat yourselves on the back for doing things the "right way," being a family, etc., that's cool. But last time I checked, they don't hang up banners for things like that.
The Gophers too have had players that easily could have left but chose to hang on (Leopold, Ballard, Martin, Ryan Potulny, etc.), so UND is not the only program to have guys stick around when they could be playing in the NHL or close to being called up while in the AHL.
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I don't know if either kid was in the Minnesota program long enough to be ruined.
Chucko was at minnesota two years and Taylor one year.
Agreed, and that was my point to "LetsGoSioux!". Only kids that stay at least three does Lucia have enough time to mess up!
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See, good discussion. One thing you can't deny, Cardinal: Whether the problems are real or perceived, they are damaging your beloved "U"'s reputation.
I could care less how Sioux fans(who are mainly the ones doing the bashing), fans of other teams, Twin Cities media members, etc. view the U of M. Until it starts hurting recruiting, which it clearly hasn't to this point, then I really don't care. Aside from last season, the team has been very successful in terms or raising banners over Lucia's tenure. If last season is indicative of what's to come, then yes, that's an issue. But as of now, I don't think the 2007-08 Gopher season will be the norm moving forward. Time will tell...
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Thanks Rick, it was Chucko who I was trying to think of earlier. Another big forward like Tallackson and Wheeler who didn't develop under Lucia and company. Eric Johnson had to leave early too so he could get proper coaching, forgot about that one already. Remember Jake Taylor? A few years of good development and he'd be a much better player now too. To an extent I am flaming the gophers because I really don't like them. Honestly though, there is enough material out there that Lucia and staff are not developing players adequately...I believe there are some pretty large problems at the U of MN-TC, and some healthy, mature dialogue about these problems is warranted.
So, in regards to Taylor and Chucko, Lucia's coaching ruined these kids forever? I ask that because they've each had several years of coaching after leaving Lucia's watch and haven't sniffed the NHL.
Erik Johnson was the top overall pick in the draft, and the rumors that swirled around the prior summer were that he may not even make it to campus. Thus, why are people surprised he left after one season? He played a regular shift in the NHL this past season, so it's not like he wasn't ready. He had 24 points as a freshman defensemen playing behind Goligoski and Vannelli, both of whom had outstanding years that season, especially from a point-production standpoint. If anything, the rumor was EJ was pissed about not being a No. 1 or 2 defensemen, but he just wasn't as good as Goligoski or Vannelli. If Lucia plays his higher than either one of those two, people on this board and others rip Lucia for caving to a star player. Can't have it both ways...
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Good One!! Wheeler is overrated and obviously the 'Yotes realized that and tried to get a little something for him instead of being a complete bust.
Yeah, they really didn't want him, considering they offered as much as is allowed by the CBA.
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Yup. Definitely a good choice on their part. Actually, I think he was a better hire for Minny than Hill.
Agreed. Hopefully Hastings sticks around for a few years, which is my only concern, especially when you consider the rumors that Hill wants to move to a front office position in some capacity.
Did this one slip away...
in Men's Hockey
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Sorry to break it to you, but it's pretty much established on GPL (and every other team / college hockey-related message board) that the Minnesota obsession around here is off the charts. It's just fun to remind the locals of it to watch the replies come rolling in ... fish in a barrel.