aff
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Posts posted by aff
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The size of the Fargodome is NDSU's "in" to the WAC, if the WAC needs more teams (like four or five more within a decade). SDSU just isn't that appealing for the MoValley (too small of a TV market) - especially with other schools like UMKC, ORU, Denver, and UALR wanting entrance. SDSU has to win in DI basketball to get entrance into the MoValley, while NDSU only really has to come up with the money for a IA football program. IMO, NDSU in the WAC is more likely to occur (albeit at least 10 years away) before SDSU gets in the MoValley.
Now if UND could expand the Alerus to more than 15,000 seats ....
Sac State, UC Davis, Montana, Montana State, and possibly several other big sky schools would all be more attractive to the WAC than NDSU. It's in Fargo. You don't think those schools are tired of the travel bills? You really think Hawaii is going to be anxious to play in the Fargo dome in November? Facilities are nice, but I'm pretty sure NDSU is going to have to have to do a lot more than show the fargo dome to get into that conference. Yeah, and UND having 15000 seats definitely isn't going to put them in the WAC either. You act like the facilities in North Dakota are made out of gold. You were positive the REA would put UND in the big sky. Look what it got you... nothing. For having such a great guaruntee of a facility, the mid con, that is apparently so terrible that neither school will even look at it, won't even consider you. Its almost like some conferences actually have other criteria besides facilities. Sometimes I think that they have a range of criteria they use. I mean what else could there be? Some of the stuff I've come up with, and I know this sounds idiotic, but here me out, are school profile, student population, competitive history, NCAA compliance, level of scholarships, total athletic budget, location etc. I know that not all of those benefit UND, so they obviously must not count for anything then. I mean, if mighty UND doesn't have this stuff, then it must be worthless. The logic can't be wrong, UND has nice facilities, so thats all conferences look for.
I'll take comfort in knowing that I'll be long dead before NDSU even sniffs the WAC.
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My point on SUU is that the MidCon's autobid is one or two schools closer to becoming tenuous: Centenary could drop athletics or Western Illinois could join the Ohio Valley. NDSU and SDSU are of no value to the MidCon until 2008-9. IPFW and UTPA are the only immediate options.
The Horizon going to 10 schools shows that it is positioning itself for what is likely to another major wave of conference shifts that will likely happen around 2009-10, when the Big East splits. For the Big Sky, nine isn't a safe number when the WAC begins to poach it. The Sky needs to have 10 for insurance, and 12 isn't fantasy talk.What seems lost in all this talk by NDSU and SDSU fans is: What is your next planned step (i.e. ideal terminal conference)? For NDSU, it is likely to be the WAC. If that is NDSU's long-term goal, joining the MidCon makes absolutely no sense if the Big Sky is offering. For SDSU, the Missouri Valley is probably their ideal. The MidCon would make more sense for them.
First off, NDSU in the WAC is about 50 years away, and for anybody to say otherwise is foolish. Second, I think a missouri valley/gateway combo would be just as appealing for NDSU, and probably more. They could have a regional rivalry with UNI, and SDSU if they were both in, and the conference is just as competitive as the Big Sky. It also affords them the same "chance" to get in the WAC as the big sky would. I seriously don't see Hawaii wanting to travel to Fargo anytime soon though.
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NDSU needs to go to the Big Sky.
Plain and simple.
Accepting the Mid Con is not good enough.
Too bad your not in a position of authority. You could explain to fans why eight years from now you still haven't seen the post season in anything. I think you need to remember that there's not really anything holding the SU's in the midcon if they accept. It would actually put them in a better position for the big sky.
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Oh and the latest D2 school to be accepted into a D1 conference (just on Monday)... the University of South Carolina- Upstate. So they now join Kennesaw State, Central Arkansas, Florida Gulf Coast, North Florida, and Presbyterian as D2 schools that have recently found a conference before entering the provisional process.
A-Sun conference has added 4 schools from D-2 in last two years. None of these are well-known schools, and no power. Fl. Gulf Coast had trouble finding ANY conference, and they ended up in A-Sun because they were actively looking for additional schools. Level playing field as virtually growing A-Sun together.
UND could approach mid-con now, and make the case to join as a affiliate member now with full membership after transition, very equivalent footing as Utah Valley St., IMHO. GWFC would welcome UND very quickly.
Why would the mid con offer UND right now? Why would they want UND as an affiliate member? What benefit would it give the conference? An extra trip up to the Dakotas to play a non-counter? Man, I bet their on the edge of their seat praying for UND. Its too bad the conference doesn't think in terms of what would be best for UND. Sorry guys, but your only shot at being D-I with no transition to go through as an indy was with a twelve member big sky, and that isn't going to happen.
The indiana school and the dakotas are going to be added immediately. The dakota schools will assist in two years with maintaining the autobid. UND's next chance for the conference will be when centenary finally drops out of D-I. By that time I'm guessing that the two SU's will be trying to get into the Missouri Valley, to once again leave UND a step behind. If I was a booster for UND, I would be pissed right now. Kuppy has just put you on track to be second fiddle for the next 20-30 years in athletics, unless you care about hockey.
The big sky won't add any schools during their next expansion. The western part won't be able to afford a trip to fargo or brookings, especially with rising fuel costs.
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The last time the Big Sky added three teams one of them dropped football and another had to be granted a waiver to drop tennis.
Since then the BSC has been cautious about expanding
And the last time the big sky conference extended an invitation farther east than montana was never.
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Once again Aff paints all with a broad brush, Saying that NDSU fans are spitting on the Mid-Con is so far out in left field. If you were to ask NDSU fan's the broad majority would be in favor of Both NDSU and SDSU getting into either conference. Both have their advantages but either would be fine.
A broad brush huh? How many articles have been about the Big sky in the forum in the last two weeks, how many interviews have been with Fullerton? The big sky doesn't even know if it will expand, and they get more attention from saying they might, than the mid con, which definitely is going to expand. You have to admit, there's a lot more attention on the big sky because of football than the mid con in Fargo.
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If, for example, you were an SDSU fan that lived in the Kansas City suburbs, I could understand being excited by the MidCOn.
Would many UND fans have much interest in the MidCOn schools? Very few - Midcon schools are not located where many alumni live, they are not located where we attract students from, its gets little media attention, the schools are by-and-large commuter-type schools, its academic reputation isn't the best, it would not provide any natural rivalries (from existing schools). Other than providing a stepping stone for a better DI conference later, basically it would suck.
NDSU fans only seem to be for it because they are tired of being rejected by the Sky.Starcity, if you think I'm 89Rabbit, then figure out how to check my IP address and locate it. Its not terribly difficult. Just ask the Moderator to tell you my IP. Tell him that I gave you full permission to have it. See if its from Kansas City or its suburbs. See if its from Brookings. Otherwise I think you need to take me at my word that I'm not 89Rabbit, living in Kansas City.
As for the SDSU and NDSU conference situation, who do you think is going to be rectruiting the better basketball players in the future if NDSU is in the big sky and SDSU is in the Midcon. Right now NDSU has a player from outside Kansas City, Riley, that both schools were after. If SDSU was in the Midcon and NDSU wasn't, where would he be going to school right now? How about players from Illinios, Missouri, and East? SDSU. Now what about the players that NDSU would be able to recruit. Haven't seen many from Cal. Washington, Montana etc. on either schools roster lately? What about the players from Minneapolis? Do you think they want their closest away game to be in Montana? Or maybe they could have ones east of the cities. If SDSU was in the midcon, it would be a dream come true for its fans and coaches from a basketball perspective. They would have the advantage over NDSU every time for recruits. If I was an SDSU fan I would like nothing better than NDSU to go to the Sky and SDSU to go to the mid con. It also leaves the door open for SDSU to the Missouri Valley, without having to wait for NDSU too. It also allows for better travel, having a drive to Kansas City for games against UMKC, and shorter flights to other destinations. But what does that matter, UND has games against Mayville state on the schedule, they should definitely be telling people that their conference "sucks". Playing Valporasio every year at home? Oakland? The same Oakland team that was playing Memphis two months ago on national television. But what does that matter when you can get the comets into play in front of 500 people?
I'm just stating that I really doubt the big sky will expand to only include a school what, 800 miles outside of its footprint? It doesn't make any sense, and Fullerton is full of crap. Sac isn't going to agree to it, and neither are the other west coast schools, and they've got the conference held hostage. All I was trying to say is that NDSU has a real possibility of an auto bid to the tournament for basketball coming up, and their fans are pretty much spitting on it. Its pretty sad. I hope that the midcon presidents get wind of the attitiude up in Fargo, and doesn't add them, and the Big Sky lets them sit until Sac Leaves in 15 years. Then we'll see where the superority goes to.
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Have you looked at the geography of the Big Sky? What do you think is a tougher travel schedule? Hoping on an hour and a half flight from Denver to Fargo, or flying from Sacramento to Phoenix and then taking a 2-1/2 hour bus ride to Flagstaff? How about the 4 hour bus ride through the mountains in the middle of winter from Missoula to Bozeman? In case you haven't noticed yet, this is a plane league with some rather lengthy trips. From what we have heard, and I don't have a link or quote to prove it (sorry), most of the opposing coaches that have come to Fargo for a game are pleasantly surprised at how easy it is to into Fargo.
Oh, I see your point, since the conference already has a bunch of terrible travel partners, why not add one more? Great pitch. You guys need to give up on this. Like it or not, NDSU needs at least SDSU, and probably both SDSU and UND to get into the big sky. And even if all three are ready to go, its still unlikely to happen in the next 5 years. Why aren't you excited about the possibility of the mid con?
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aff, Wow you really seem to get upset at the notion that some think there may be a possibility of NDSU only being added to the BSC without SDSU. First let me say that I am very glad that SDSU made the move with NDSU however I think the point that was being made was that the last time around when both SU's made the bid to get into the sky travel was a bit different. Delta did not fly into Fargo at that time. I know you don't want to concede that it could make a difference when discussing travel but I would think it could definetly play a factor. I'm not saying I would like to see only NDSU get into the sky without SDSU but travel issues have become a little bit easier now that Delta flies direct from Denver and Salt Lake City to Fargo whereas before they did not. In the end my first choice would be to see both NDSU and SDSU in the BSC but you need to lighten up a bit.
I'm really not upset, I just don't think it makes any sense. Just think about it. The problem before was geography. NDSU and SDSU together lessened that problem. You can see evidence of that from the basketball scheduling alliance the two schools have utilized. So if geography was a problem before, why would only NDSU get added this time, increasing geography problems? It doesn't make any sense. Having UNC and NDSU or SDSU as travel partners makes the travel burden on other members even worse than before, when NDSU was rejected. But now you're telling me that Delta adding some commuter flights changes all that? Please. Just from a logical standpoint, I can't understand.
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Relax aff.
If NDSU only goes to the Big Sky, I'm sure SDSU will get into the Mid Con.
I'll relax when people stop talking about stuff that pops in their head as if it were a fact. How about this:
The Montana President has shown support for adding the Dakota schools, and that obviously extends to minnesota as well. Concordia St. Paul is all but in the big sky right now, they need a tenth team. By taking crookston, the big sky avoids the delema of choosing a dakota school, and takes a school that gives them the minneapolis metro area. They also get a school that won't embarrass the rest of the league by being immediately competitive, but will grow into the league. The basketball facilities are also just as good as some members of the conference. They will be travel partners with UNC, have you seen how easy the flights are from minneapolis to Denver? Thats a huge factor in who the big sky takes into their conference. Why fly to sioux falls or fargo when you can go to minneapolis?
Its soooo easy to just make crap up on these message boards. It absolutely blows my mind when some people get good enough at it that they can't even see how illogical their own conclusions are. Tell me whats wrong with these:
1. NDSU and SDSU have been rejected twice
2. Nothing has really changed.
How is NDSU or any combination of the Dakota schools going to get in? They won't.
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I don't think in the past the Big Sky played basketball on consecutive nights. Mostly Thursday/Saturday, or Friday only. There would be a day of rest between Greely and Fargo.
The point remains that NDSU- UNC or any _generic dakota school- UNC is one of the worst travel partner arragments ever concieved of.
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The Montana schools are frustrated with the way the conference has expanded and grown away from schools like themselves and adding NDSU would appease them. I think NDSU being added alone could definately happen but with the Big Sky it is usually almost impossible to predict just what will happen.
How do you know that? There's no possible way, unless you are, A. A higher up in a big sky school. B. Have a press release where the schools are badmouthing each other. Just because fans of those schools say something, doesn't make it so. For all you know the Montana schools are thrilled with being in larger recruting markets. I'm sure they love sac state, so that they can recruit california. For being so fed up with schools unlike themselves, they sure added northern colorado pretty quick. And how do you know that NDSU would appease them? Do you really think that the montana president is sitting there saying, "I don't know, we could go to the WAC, or we could stay and play NDSU." Pretty tough decision there. They won't even sign a home and home agreement with you, but you think they are keeping themselves out of the WAC to play you. I think you might need to come back to earth.
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The Montana State President would support adding one Dakota school and so would Comish Fulerton, both have said so. The Montana schools are frustrated with the way the conference has expanded and grown away from schools like themselves and adding NDSU would appease them. I think NDSU being added alone could definately happen but with the Big Sky it is usually almost impossible to predict just what will happen.
I just can't see it happening. If Sac, NAU, Portland, etc. didn't want a combo of schools that have easy travel partner, there's no way that only NDSU will be added. I'm sure Montana State has no problem with it, it would be one of their closest games. I don't think that they were the one's holding the two DSU's out of the conference before. And when I asked if anybody had any sources on any of this, I was seeing if their had been any RECENT statements from any of these presidents about the situation. I remember Montana States president talking about this situation over a year ago, but thats quite awhile ago. Fullerton's an idiot, and just runs his mouth about whatever he thinks will get people's attention, not that his opinion matters all that much any way.
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If they add only one school in the Big Sky, it will be NDSU. They have a big supporter in the Montana State President, and to my knowledge, SDSU has no booster in the BSC like that. Also, the obvious travel partner for Northern Colorado is NDSU. Have you checked the flight schedules to see how easy it is to get from Denver to Fargo? An hour and a half flight and you are on campus or at your hotel 10 minutes after landing. You would have to fly into Sioux Falls and bus to Brookings. That is something that NDSU has over SDSU or UND that the other schools in the BSC will look at, especially with Delta starting flights from Fargo to Salt Lake. Every Big Sky school has to fly into Minneapolis to get to Grand Forks in every sport except football (where they would probably fly on a charter). The BSC will not take SDSU because it thinks it will have an easier time adding NDSU & UND in the future. You may want to think UND has that kind of appeal, but I'm afraid you are mistaken. They will take the one they consider the best option to get out of their scheduling nightmare a nine team league has caused them. They know going to a twelve team 2-division conference will take some convincing of some of the presidents (maybe 2 or 3 years down the road), but they really want an even number for scheduling, so adding one is their immediate option.
Seriously, does anybody have anything to back any of this up? I'm pretty sure you pulled almost all of that straight from your a$$. If any combination of the Dakota schools is so great for the big sky, then why did they reject them the first two times? Oh, thats right, location. Hasn't changed has it? Then why on earth would they add only NDSU? The "scheduling nightmare" that they haven't even endured yet? Maybe give them a season to go through that first. I can see your point about NDSU being the "obvious" travel partner to No. Colorado. I mean who wouldn't want to play one bball game in greely one night, and a game in Fargo the next. Just a quick, cheap, little hop. Same for Brookings or Grand Forks. The big sky isn't going to expand this year. NDSU and SDSU will likely end up in either the midcon this summer, or else in conference limbo until the probation is up.
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I guess it depends on how one looks at it. I believe The Great West is a conference. Some may call me just another pompous UND grad, but I'll bet UND could get into that right away. When you look at it that way, it sounds like 64% yes to me!
Yeah, I'm sure that the great west is what most people have in mind when they talk about conferences.
. Pretty sure an all sports conference, or conference with an auto bid would be what they had in mind. Right now UND is caught in its' own trap, much like SDSU was (since I'm their biggest fan of course!!!!), they have said they won't go D-I without a conference, but you can't get a conference invite without being D-I first. SDSU's way out was an embarrasing public back track. I don't think Kuppy has it in him to do that though. Why would he take a public hit for something he doesn't want to do in the first place?
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Haven't read any of this thread, but shouldn't "Add two schools, SDSU and NDSU be a choice on this poll. I know it may be unlikely, but theres still a chance.
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No way do we sacrifice basketball.
I think NDSU men's basketball is eventually going to do what Northern Iowa is doing now.
The other sports, I hope they do well, but I don't follow them that much.
Based on one season? I'm sorry, but the Bison were unable to do the equivalent of what Northern Iowa did last season in D-I when they were in D-II. Now that they barely got over .500 against low level D-I's fargo talks like they are the next gonzaga. I don't care about Wisconsin, it was a fluke, Kansas State was more like what the bison's talent level compared to other teams is. They just don't have the athleticism to do much better than .500 against mid major competition. Look at SDSU, there's your future.
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So do you rent?
Starcity-
I can tell you very much want UND to go D-I, but making making a statement like that makes almost no sense to me. Are you honestly telling me that if you had a million dollars to bet on this one way or the other, you would say UND is going to be in the Big Sky this summer? I have no idea who you are, maybe you're privy to a wealth of inside knowledge that I don't know. Yeah, that would be great for a D-I UND, but to come to that conclusion you basically ignore blatant facts and choose to look at a huge list of circumstantial evidence that you concieve of. I'm not personally attacking you here, I just don't understand where you're coming from on this. Here's the reasons I think SDSU and NDSU will be in the Mid Con and UND will, without a D-I conference, will stay in D-II. Please enlighten me as to where my logic is flawed.
1. The midcon just lost Chicago State.
2. The mid con needs members.
3. SDSU is already an affiliate member in swimming, and both NDSU and SDSU are soon to be at least affiliate members in baseball and softball.
4. The mid con commisioner Douple was a large part of putting the Great West together and has worked with both SDSU and NDSU for that conference.
5. The mid con would find it advantagous to go to a two division setup because of its nearly rediculous geography.
6. To do this, SDSU, NDSU and IPFW could all be added, decreasing travel costs.
7. UND will not have or perhaps want, a spot in the mid con. They will be unable to get in the big sky themselves. They will stay D-II.
I don't know how you would argue with these points. The mid con is going to expand, why would they not expand to members where they already have affiliates for some sports? To me it looks like the SU's are basically shoe-in's for this expansion. Meanwhile, the Big Sky has rejected them twice already? And thats the conference you think their going to end up in? You can have all the conspiracy theories in the world, but the basic fact is that the mid con NEEDS members NOW, and the big sky doesn't right now. The SU's are a good fit for the mid con, looking at it from any direction. The big sky considers them too geographically isolated.
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You nailed it and Buning said as much afterwards. It allows UND to have the basic info in place and be able to react quickly if something becomes available...(read: Fullerton and the Big Sky)
SDSU is still an anchor to NDSU as a partner...they might have been better served doing a review like this before they dove headfirst into DI.Yeah, if only the SU's had done an internal study instead of hiring Carr and associates. Nothing gives credibility like an internal study.
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I know that I'm being optomistic (and probably naive), but with the rumors that were flying last week regarding the Big Sky, is it possible that Kupchella is playing it coy and knows that he has the conference in hand? Couple that with the response that 90% of the survey saying that he had to have that in hand and all he is has to have is the money. As Jim pointed out people would be willing go give more money for Division I. I know that is waaaay out there.
Or is the complete opposite true and Kupchella has heard that there is no conference invitations in the offing and he has the survey to say "Not now"?
Theres not going to be a conference invite for UND to the big sky, I would bet my house on it. I hate to be mean about it, but if I had to guess I would say that the SUs will be in the Mid con before the end of the summer, with IPFW. President Kup knows this, and wont go D-I when there is actually something to risk, instead of riding the two SUs coat tails into a conference. Where UND goes from there is anybodys guess.
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I would also agree that there is an ulterior motive in all of this, but I think it comes straight from the top (Kupchella).
I agree 100%.
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So, aff, if you want to talk spin, how do you spin Gene Taylor's statement upon moving to DI of "I should be fired if I don't find a conference in a year?"
A north Dakota school overconfident about conference affiliation? I'm absolutely shocked! No way UND would say some of the same stuff.
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When NDSU made the move from Division II to Division I earlier this decade, the Bison didn't have a conference waiting for them. NDSU still is searching for a Division I conference in most sports.
LOL, thats got to be the biggest spin I have ever read in print. Most people would maybe wait awhile to start refering to three years ago with a "decade" in the description. Maybe they should have said
"When NDSU made the move from Division II to Division I earlier this Century".
Seriously, it was three years ago, but from the article you would get the impression that the Bison moved during the Kennedy administration.
Back on topic though, if Kup. doesn't want to really go D-I, hes got everything he needs from this survey. Any time anybody complains about not being D-I, all he has to do is tell them their in the minority, and he wins.
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Thanks bin, but if your wish came true, all us Sioux fans would really be in trouble.
I don't have a problem whatsover with aff (or whoever) posting here. But his posting history shows an unusual concern with SDSU two years ago, and now he/she wants to present himself as a concerned Sioux fan or at a minimum, an unbiased poster.
I'm sorry, but I have, and probably won't ever, claim to be a Sioux Fan. I also am not an SDSU, NDSU, or UNC. I've said it before, but usually posters on this board have an wealth of inaccurate info about schools outside of ND, and usually they start telling it to me when they disagree about something. I am a fan of Minnesota, which is how I found this board in the first place, and I have watched a lot of NCC games in the last couple of years, due to the position I'm in. It's seriously just coicidence that it is about SDSU, probably due to the relationship SDSU and UND have to NDSU. I don't feel comfortable giving out details of my personal or professional life, but if you send me a message I will discuss some aspects of it.
Big Sky Presidents Meet on May 23rd
in NCAA News
Posted
Yeah, and not to defend SDSU too much here, since I apparently have a reputation as a big SDSU fan, but TV market? Give me a break. UNI was just added a few years ago. SDSU has ten times the media market in Sioux Falls that UNI has after you get done with Iowa and Iowa State. Theres no doubt any team has to win to be in that conference, but don't tell me after they added UNI that any school has too small of a media market.
And UMKC and Oakland? Yeah, I'm sure that Creighton is dying to get schools of that caliber associated with themselves. Its not every day you can trash your academic reputation by associating with a commuter school.