UNDIA General Membership meeting 3.8.2006

[Teeder11]

I never said it wasn't news. Is it front page news? That's debatable.

"Claim" is the operative word. I was at the meeting. It was rather obvious from looking at the agenda what the outcome was going to be.

At one point point in the meeting, a UNDIA member said the group wanted someone to speak on behalf of the Sioux name, but they couldn't find any faculty members who were for it. That generated a big laugh.

To me, it was bigger news that this group had been neutral for so many years. Why did we never read about that?

You're right. I didn't say it. Journalism 101: Never assume.

Early on in this thread, I said: "I'm sure this is just another attempt to generate some more headlines for the cause."

Now, based on what's happend, tell me I was wrong.

I don't know, I am not going to assume here, again. So I will ask -- are you saying there is something wrong with trying to generate headlines?

Yout got some PR background don't you? You've done a little of that, haven't you? I guess it has to do with the subject (oops that's an assumption).

You'r not wrong. But there's nothing wrong with what they're doing, either. (That's an opinion.) Oh crap, I forgot -- Journalism 100: Never offer an opinion.

Pro-nickname people pine about it being on the front page; anti-nickname people cry because it was presented below the fold. The paper can't win no matter where its put for all the arm-chair editors that are out there.

I must admit, you got great opinions though. And you are fun to debate.

Fred W.

[Bacardio]

I think the funniest part of this whole UNDIA fiasco is the fact that "IF" this group was formed in 1966 souly for the purpose of "providing support to students who felt alienated from the community because of the name" and demanding its change.

It seems odd that it has taken over 40 years to move from a neutral stance to a "change it now" stance.

Even GK couldn't get enough of his klan members to vote for a change of stance when he was manipulating the UNDIA membership 5 years ago.

[HockeyMom]

You didn't say this, but your post was dripping with this whole pervasive assumption that the current news writers at the Herald hate the nickname and want to get rid of it. The editorial staff maybe, but not the news room. And contrary to popular belief the news room leaders call the shots on how the things are going to be played. Jacobs and his crew rarely make it to the news planning meetings where the issues are discussed.

If I remember correctly, back in the day I dropped my subscription to the Herald for not letting the nickname issue die, and running a story- no matter how lame or small on the front page just to keep the topic on the tip of everyone's tongue.......I still feel bad for letting that lady have it when she called to ask why I had dumped the paper.

PS- I hope your job wasn't to proof read before the paper went to press.....

[Teeder11]

If I remember correctly, back in the day I dropped my subscription to the Herald for not letting the nickname issue die, and running a story- no matter how lame or small on the front page just to keep the topic on the tip of everyone's tongue.......I still feel bad for letting that lady have it when she called to ask why I had dumped the paper.

PS- I hope your job wasn't to proof read before the paper went to press.....

Listen, every twist and turn of the nickname issue is important to all of us, or esle we wouldn't chat about it ad nauseum on here. What the hell is the difference where it's presented -- in the paper or on some sports message board. Is the paper held to some higher mythical standard than other media, message boards included, and that that is the reason it gets blasted for telling people about the university and their nickname, which they pay for?

I've seen some pretty petty nickname subjects discussed on here, but, oh, I guess that's ok, on here. Maybe cause it's relatively free, other than what we pay for an Internet subscription. But the info in the paper is online for free, too, so I don't know what gives. Probably, becuase the paper is just an easy faceless target to criticize without needing to back it up with articulate reasoning.

I totally agree that the editorial board has picked a controversial stance on the nickname in order to get people to keep coming back to see what they say next.... but the Herald as a whole is committed to Sioux sports and the nickname. They have a suite at the Ralph for Chrissake!

Oh and Hockey Mom, your easy slams of the Herald editing could be assigned to any daily paper in the country that deals in a million words a day. You would do no better if you were in some of those people's shoes. That's not a shot at you, just the reality of working in the business.

I used criticize my hometown paper, too, until I worked in one, and found out what they face day in and day out just to get information out.

I could say whatever you do is so easy, but I bet if I actually sat down and did it, I would have a different perspective. That is unless it involves a slurpee machine. I could probably do that.

Fred

[PCM]

I don't know, I am not going to assume here, again. So I will ask -- are you saying there is something wrong with trying to generate headlines?

No. It happens every hour of every day.

Yout got some PR background don't you?

Yes. That's why I don't consider it a sin to notify the news media about events that can potentially generate headlines or coverage.

I'm not faulting UNDIA for notifying the media.

I'm not faulting the media for covering what was a legitimate news event.

Was it worth a front-page, above-the-fold headline? In my opinion, which is based on attending the meeting and understanding why UNDIA was formed, I don't think so.

I guess it has to do with the subject (oops that's an assumption).

Of course it has to do with the subject -- and how much play is given to that subject in relation to other news events going on at the same time. It's making judgements about what's more important to readers in relation to other news. It's making decisions about what news is covered, what news is downplayed and what news is totally ignored. Those decisions always have been and always will be open to second-guessers like me.

You'r not wrong. But there's nothing wrong with what they're doing, either. (That's an opinion.)

I completely and totally understand why UNDIA did what it did. I'm not questioning it. I'm not saying it's wrong in any way, shape or form.

Oh crap, I forgot -- Journalism 100: Never offer an opinion.

Apparently you learned something different at journalism school than I did. While it's not appropriate to express an opinion in news story, it's expected in an editorial or op-ed. And I'm pretty sure it's okay on Internet message boards.

Pro-nickname people pine about it being on the front page; anti-nickname people cry because it was presented below the fold. The paper can't win no matter where its put for all the arm-chair editors that are out there.

As noted, the story was on the front page and above the fold. UNDIA got exactly what it wanted. The story is being circulated and published by other media as if it's a significant event. Why? Because the Herald treated it as one.

GrahamKracker should be ecstatic. My congratulations to him for his successful manipulaton of the media.

[HockeyMom]

Oh and Hockey Mom, your easy slams of the Herald editing could be assigned to any daily paper in the country that deals in a million words a day. You would do no better if you were in some of those people's shoes. That's not a shot at you, just the reality of working in the business.

I wasn't talking about the Herald, I was talking about the mistakes in your posts. And yes, my family works in ink......

[HockeyMom]

HockeyMom aka Thread Killer.......

[Teeder11]

HockeyMom aka Thread Killer.......

Wow. Where do I start. This is great, I must say.

Let's take Patrick on first,

Ok, just talked to Tran, the reporter who was at the meeting. He said UNDIA did not contact the Herald. Someone in the advertising department who must look at this message board notified the newsroom.

So, that shatters that whole thing about UNDIA seeking pub, even though they probably weren't dissappointed in it. GK, was the one seeking pub, and he did that on here, as I understand it, not with the Herald.

Tran had no idea what he was getting into and he had no preconceived notions. He's basically the city hall reporter.

Talked to Monique Vondall, too, the faculty adviser for UNDIA.. She said that the Herald called her and asked about the meetingm, when it was to be held and whether it was open to the public. Sounds like just plain old fashioned proactive journalism got this in Herald, and not some media blitz by the UNDIA officers.

Point number 2, for Patrick: I never went to J-school. I am not a journalist. But that is probably plainly obvious to you and other media professionals.

Hockey Mom: I must say I love your posts, and they are always perfect. I tend to be in a bit of a hurry when I am writing posts, as I am doing half dozen other things at the same time. Didn't take time to fact check and spell check, sorry.

I probably have a bunch of typos in here too, but I think you get the point.

Sorry about your fam's connection to journalism... wouldn't wish that on anyone for all the guff one takes. It takes thick skin, I guess.

Fred

[PCM]

Listen, every twist and turn of the nickname issue is important to all of us, or esle we wouldn't chat about it ad nauseum on here. What the hell is the difference where it's presented -- in the paper or on some sports message board.

The difference is that people on this board don't get paid to cover the news and they aren't charging others to read what they write. Nor do they claim to be watchdogs acting on behalf of the public's right to know. They come here to express their opinions and read other peoples' opinions.

Is the paper held to some higher mythical standard than other media, message boards included, and that that is the reason it gets blasted for telling people about the university and their nickname, which they pay for?

I would hope that a newspaper is held to a higher standard than an Internet message board. People who pay for the Herald certainly have every right to complain when they disagree with how news is covered. They also have every right to cancel their subscriptions. This doesn't mean that the subscriber is always right. It does mean, however, if too many of subscribers follow Hockey Mom's lead, the newspaper will have a significant problem generating revenue.

[Teeder11]

The difference is that people on this board don't get paid to cover the news and they aren't charging others to read what they write. Nor do they claim to be watchdogs acting on behalf of the public's right to know. They come here to express their opinions and read other peoples' opinions.

I would hope that a newspaper is held to a higher standard than an Internet message board. People who pay for the Herald certainly have every right to complain when they disagree with how news is covered. They also have every right to cancel their subscriptions. This doesn't mean that the subscriber is always right. It does mean, however, if too many of subscribers follow Hockey Mom's lead, the newspaper will have a significant problem generating revenue.

Like I said, you can get the Herald for the same price online that it takes to access this Web site. In my opinion, and though people don't want to admit it because it's more fun to bash the quality of the paper, the reason people cancel has more to do with the fact they can read it for basically free online now.

Good. I was hoping you would say that the paper was held to a higher standard. That's a first on this message board.

Just a query, but I wonder if DAZ would have led off its news cast, had they known about the UNDIA meeting, would they receive the same criticism. Or do their shiny smiling airhead faces make them a nonfactor.

You'd think some of them get paid to work on this board, the way they are alway on here day and night 24/7. But I can see why they do it, today is my day off, and I am having a blast.

[PCM]

GK, was the one seeking pub, and he did that on here, as I understand it, not with the Herald.

And this board and this forum are read by Herald reporters. I know that for a fact. GK knows it, too.

Tran had no idea what he was getting into and he had no preconceived notions.

I never said that he did.

Talked to Monique Vondall, too, the faculty adviser for UNDIA.. She said that the Herald called her and asked about the meetingm, when it was to be held and whether it was open to the public. Sounds like just plain old fashioned proactive journalism got this in Herald, and not some media blitz by the UNDIA officers.

I never said UNDIA was seeking publicity. I said GK was.

[PCM]

Like I said, you can get the Herald for the same price online that it takes to access this Web site.

The entire newspaper is not posted online.

[Teeder11]

And this board and this forum are read by Herald reporters. I know that for a fact. GK knows it, too.

I never said that he did.

I never said UNDIA was seeking publicity. I said GK was.

Boy, you write a lot, but you never say anything!

Oh, I get it now. God! I am so slow, you were going after GK the whole time. My bad. Just had to decode you encryption first.

Thanks.

[Teeder11]

The entire newspaper is not posted online.

The editorial content that is the topic at hand is all there, that is the stuff that reporters get paid to write -- is all there.

[PCM]

Boy, you write a lot, but you never say anything!

I know what I wrote and what I meant when I wrote it. I can't help it if you read something into it that's not there.

[PCM]

The editorial content that is the topic at hand is all there, that is the stuff that reporters get paid to write -- is all there.

No it's not. I subscribe to the paper. On numerous occasions, I've tried to find an article online that was in the print version. Many times, what's in the print version is not in the online version.

[PCM]

I'm correcting myself because teeder11 is right. I did say in a previous post that UNDIA contacted the media. He said they didn't and I'll take his word for it.

It was good reporting on his part.

My apologies.

[Teeder11]

No it's not. I subscribe to the paper. On numerous occasions, I've tried to find an article online that was in the print version. Many times, what's in the print version is not in the online version.

Those stories usually appear later in the day. Or if they don't it's a computer glitch that is not intended, according to Tom Dutcher, the Herald Web guy.

He said every morning at about 7 a.m he does an inventory to make sure all of the loca and regional and state and national stories got online. If he finds any that aren't there that are supposed to be, he gets it up.

The Herald web site is a template used by all Knight Ridder papers, and sometimes that makes things difficult. The Herald is at the mercy of a central Knight Ridder computer network office in Witchita or St. Paul, I cant remember which.

So, yes, they are all supposed to be there, and they usually are. Sometimes they are not, but that is not intended.

Your turn.

[Teeder11]

I'm correcting myself because teeder11 is right. I did say in a previous post that UNDIA contacted the media. He said they didn't and I'll take his word for it.

It was good reporting on his part.

My apologies.

No problem, PCM. Thanks for clarifiation. I don't mean to sound like an ass. Just like to quash misconception about are local "rag."

I know the people that work there. That is why it's easy for me to get to the bottom of things.

Often times, rumor and conspiracy theories about the paper are more fun and exciting then the truth.

[HockeyMom]

My posts aren't perfect. But I do read several times before I post, and then right afterwards and I do have to edit sometimes.

My posts are mostly sarcasm, I like to laugh, and sometimes I laugh at other people......but most of the time, I'm laughing at myself.

Life is way too short to take it so seriously that you can't laugh, IMO. I can't imagine going through life and not laughing so hard at least once that you wet your pants.

What's the topic again?

[PCM]

Those stories usually appear later in the day. Or if they don't it's a computer glitch that is not intended, according to Tom Dutcher, the Herald Web guy.

As part of my job, I often need to refer people to online versions of news stories and editorials or quote information from them. I know how to search the Herald's Web site to find stories because I do it frequently.

I don't know what the Herald's intention is for its online version of the paper, but I do know from extensive personal experience that much of what is in the printed version doesn't make it online. Maybe it does eventually, but it certainly doesn't get there a timely manner.

If I didn't subscribe to the Herald and tried to rely solely on the Web version, I'd miss an awful lot of news. That's why there's no danger of me canceling my subscription, no matter how much I might disagree with an editorial decision.

At any rate, I don't think this has anything to do with the discussion. I doubt that the journalists who work at the Herald would take kindly to having the content of their newspaper compared to an Internet message board.

[PCM]

Often times, rumor and conspiracy theories about the paper are more fun and exciting then the truth.

Oh, absolutely!

Having worked in a newsroom, I always found it entertaining to hear the various theories on how the news was covered and how decisions about coverage were made. They were often very creative, imaginative and totally disconnected from reality.

[Teeder11]

As part of my job, I often need to refer people to online versions of news stories and editorials or quote information from them. I know how to search the Herald's Web site to find stories because I do it frequently.

I don't know what the Herald's intention is for its online version of the paper, but I do know from extensive personal experience that much of what is in the printed version doesn't make it online. Maybe it does eventually, but it certainly doesn't get there a timely manner.

If I didn't subscribe to the Herald and tried to rely solely on the Web version, I'd miss an awful lot of news. That's why there's no danger of me canceling my subscription, no matter how much I might disagree with an editorial decision.

At any rate, I don't think this has anything to do with the discussion. I doubt that the journalists who work at the Herald would take kindly to having the content of their newspaper compared to an Internet message board.

Good points

[Teeder11]

My posts aren't perfect. But I do read several times before I post, and then right afterwards and I do have to edit sometimes.

My posts are mostly sarcasm, I like to laugh, and sometimes I laugh at other people......but most of the time, I'm laughing at myself.

Life is way too short to take it so seriously that you can't laugh, IMO. I can't imagine going through life and not laughing so hard at least once that you wet your pants.

What's the topic again?

The Herald, I think, no, I mean, the nicknmae, or, maybe, UNDIA.... Oh hell, I don't know.