Brent_Bobyck
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Posts posted by Brent_Bobyck
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If I'm working for CBS news then you must be an intern with the National Enquirer!
How does that make it easy on the school and the AD? I'm not following you here.
So you want UND to take this all the way to the end, fight it in the courts and exhaust all expenses to save the name and that will make it easy on the school and AD. But, if the playoffs are in jeopardy then they should drop the name?
The statement I made that you originally bashed was that if it comes out that the tribes are all against the name then UND should not fight it. I don't feel that UND should go to court saying that the tribes don't "own" the name. Apparently you feel they should? Please explain.
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OK, ESPNInsider. Read slow because this is the last time I am going to explain this. If you do not understand after this, then I can not help you.
First of all, I want UND to fight this ruling by the NCAA with every avenue that is available to them (i.e. appeal, lawsuit, etc). Now here is where it gets tricky for you ESPN. "IF" UND fails to overturn the NCAA ruling after using all of their available avenues, then why not make easy on the University & AD by changing the name. DO......YOU..........FOLLOW.......ME?
It would be making it easier on UND and their AD by being able to host playoff games and not having to change their uniforms everytime they are in the playoffs somewhere else. DO........YOU...........UNDERSTAND?
I feel they should fight this in the courts because the "Fighting Sioux" nickname has been the face of UND Athletics since the 1930's. I grew up following the Fighting Sioux and it would not be the same if the sports teams played under a different name. I do believe that UND uses the Fighting Sioux to honor the Native Americans of the area and I think we are hearing the voices of the "vocal minority" that oppose the name.
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I'm sorry, I just can't tell which one you want.
Where does it stop that it makes it easy on the school & AD?
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Both statements that you bolded are saying the same thing. Before the first statement you bolded it reads "If all other options have been exhausted." They are saying the same thing! You are running out of statements to spin. Do you work for CBS News?
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You say, "Why not make it easier on the school, the athletic dept., etc and change the name." That just doesn't seem like traveling all avenues to me.
But, I'll go with what you are saying now. So do you think that if after the meeting today it is decided that the tribes are all against the name and that is based on a majority of people in the tribes that UND should continue to fight it? That's where to me it is crossing the line. The reason I've stood up for the name in the past is because I have yet to see evidence that there is a majority against the use of the name. If that evidence comes out, as I suggested in my original post that you blasted, then I feel UND needs to step down.
How far should this go?
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My thinkings are.....If all other options have been exhausted, why not make it easier on the school & AD and change the name. They could be stubborn, keep the name, and no longer host playoff games or they can change the name. You decide. I would rather see the Alerus and the Ralph host playoff games then for us to have a nickname that we have to cover up anytime our team makes the playoffs.
How far should this go? Well I have already answered that. Go as far as you can. If unsuccesful, then change the name.
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A few more quotes to refresh your memory of where you stand:
This post was within a day or two of the ruling:
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OTL is on ESPN in just a few minutes.
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Bobyck, you must have forgot where you stand on the issue. I'll help you remember:
You wanted UND to drop the name instantly when the NCAA ruling came out. Now, I'm saying that if indeed UND meets with the tribal leaders and they agree that they are totally against it UND should stop the fight. Why drag it on if they agree in the majority that they don't want it?
Not sure why you blast me for saying maybe they should stop after all this when you wanted out as soon as the initial ruling hit the press.
You know the saying,
"Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"
Crash, bang, smash...shattered
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If you would read my other posts about that issue, I have stated that UND should fight the NCAA ruling by all means necessary. If all avenues have been traveled and nothing more can be done, UND needs to change the name. They should not change it just because of the meeting today like you have stated. Never did I want them to change the name immediately after the NCAA ruling came out.
I said it back then and I will say it again, I want to see the name change ONLY if it means UND can never host playoff games.
You spin the facts as well as Graham Kracker. Get it straight ESPNInsider.
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GK,
You came on here and answered everyone's questions but mine. Are you dodging me yet again?
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I feel sorry for you boys if you liked him, but I'm happy to see him go. The only thing he brought to the table was his undying love of Nebraska.
You'll probably see him as a sideline reporter or maybe even doing something with Fox Sports Net or something like that. Maybe he can take over the Craig Bohl Show
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He has been very critical of Nebraska in the last few years as they have struggled. Yes, he does love his alma mater but no more than Stuart Scott loves North Carolina or Scott Van Pelt loves Maryland. How could you not love your alma mater. I believe he has been very fair to other schools even in the Big 12 and it almost seems like he has picked on Nebraska more than normal to squash his "Nebraska Bias." Truth be told he knew all the ins and outs of college football and in my opinion is better than Kirk Herbstreit. Even though I like him I would not watch him if he joined Fox Sports. Hopefully he can land a gig on ABC and replace that loud mouth Terry Bowden. That seems doubtful thought because ABC and ESPN are both Disney owned.
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UND can appeal the ruling, but if that meeting does not go well today and the tribes are against it then I would want UND to stop the fight.
The reason I have been against the change in the past is that there has been no "clear" tribal objection to the name. Maybe that is because the media has kept that out of the papers and off the news, or maybe it's that they don't have one and the stuff that does come out is drummed up by only a few vocal minority.
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You know how the saying goes.....
"When the going gets tough....quit"
What a sellout.
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This is terrible because I really enjoyed Trev as an analyst.
Here is the article from CNN.SI
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Coming up in a couple minutes.
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Before anyone gets fired up, read this guys 15 total posts on this site. After that, I suspect there will be no more replies to this thread.
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What do you mean?
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I'm a big UND fan, but something about UND hockey is bothering me around the campus and GF that Sioux hockey is beyond Sioux football.
There both well run clubs, and have had tons of success. But the Sioux Football should really be the crown of UND and GF.
For hockey at that level it's interesting how many hockey schools at all levels, and the watchers from ESPN to be for sure follow the sport and make it like this is the best amateur hockey level in the world, when the CHL-----western hockey league, ontario hockey league, and quebec major league for sure has the best players, and the best teams, the best coaches, and the best competition with more on the line.
The games are extremely huge up there where even some bad teams play in similar venues as the Ralph.
Any CHL team that is not rebuilding would cream the Sioux!!!
Where as the Sioux Football at this level, and overall conference play is superiout, and well more important for GF and UND.
Let's hear what Sioux fans have to say.
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Are you drunk?
Hockey = 7 National Championships. Division I
Football = 1 National Championship. Division II
I am not taking anything away from UND Football but this is like comparing apples to oranges. If you would like to go by success and attendence then Sioux Hockey wins in a landslide.
What is the point of this thread?
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GK seems to be dodging the questions that he can not answer or maybe does not want to answer. All he does is post pictures of the Cleveland Indians mascot, bring back Ralph Engelstad memories, and cite a website that has not been updated in 4 years. We do not dodge your questions. Why do you dodge ours?
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First of all, unlike "others" that don't have a life, I am busy raising a famiy and can't be in here 24/7.
I realize that you do have other things going on other than this message board, as does everyone. I asked you those questions on Aug 12. I didn't get a reply until today. You didn't have time to answer my questions in that amount of time? Or were you dodging the issue?
As for your question, before I answer, WHATEVER I say will never be good enough for you because you are not one who is willing to change. That's why we have institutions like the NCAA who have to make you change.YOU have institutions like the NCAA? Are they the Political Correctness Police? Several people, including the well respected governors of North Dakota and Florida, have come out and said the NCAA has overstepped their boundries. FSU, CMU & Utah were not made to change their name. The NCAA is not as powerful as you think.
As for Sioux Falls. Sioux Falls was named because that was the name of the water falls in that city. It wasn't because the people said "you know, we should name ourselves Sioux _______ because then we would be good exterminators of the bison, or we could rhyme easier"......no, their name was a part of History.OK, but what about North Dakota, South Dakota, Lakota, Sioux City, etc?
UND's past is not History.....but it is "His"story...by that I mean "Ralphstory". We don't have a problem w/ the names of the towns. But we do have a problem w/ UND. It changed its name to the FS for all the wrong reasons, and now they need to find another logo to worship.I never mentioned Ralph's name. Why is he brought into the conversation?
I don't know if that answers your question, because I really don't know what you're trying to get out of me.I am not trying to get anything out of you except for the answers of my questions. They are in my previous post on this thread. They are plain and simple. And you have, yet again, dodged answering them. I would love to hear your answer to the questions without getting defensive and not pulling out the "Ralph card." I am simply trying to have a debate about the issue at hand, not an argument.
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QUOTE(Brent_Bobyck @ Aug 12 2005, 08:55 AM)
Taken from a website against the nickname recommended by Graham Kracker
"Why is the use of American Indian people as mascots and symbols offensive?
The continued use of American Indian people as mascots, logos, and symbols is wrong. It denies a race of people the basic right of respect. By tolerating the use of demeaning stereotypes, we desensitize and objectify people. When using a race of people as nothing more than mascots and symbols, we are teaching the next generation of non-Indian children that it is okay to participate in culturally abusive behavior."
The Sioux Falls question is why is it ok to have a town called Sioux Falls and Sioux City & Lakota? Why is it ok to have states named North Dakota & South Dakota? Why is it just Universities?GrahamKracker,Where is the stereotype in UND using this name? How is your basic right of respect being denied? Please explain.
I believe that UND choosing to use the name "fighting sioux" goes far beyond using it "for nothing more than mascots and symbols" IMO, if our nickname was all about those things, why change the Flickertails name? Please explain.
Also, I could not find anything on that website that explaining the Sioux Falls, etc question I asked above. Could you please explain these things to me. Thanks.
Again, no disrespect. I am simply trying to see your viewpoint and that website does not answer my questions.
Graham Kracker,Since you haven't responded to any of my questions, and you have posted elsewhere in the forums, should I assume you don't have the answers to my questions? Or perhaps don't want to answer?
It makes it hard to find you credible when you do not respond to simple questions
GrahamKracker,
Still Waiting............
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Brats on the grill, wings in the fryer, beer in the cooler. It's good to be a football fan!
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I wish I could be there. Will be up for the Omaha game. Good times!
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Does everyone have their FIRST menu all set?? Let's here it....
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A staple in everyone's menu should be brauts sizzled in a "Old Style" gravy. So good.
Outside the Lines
in UND Nickname
Posted
Funny how you don't list the date and time of my second quote. The second quote is from a few weeks back. The more I thought about it, I came to the conclusion of the first quote.
Regardless, they are pretty much saying the same thing! If you read on in the second quote I said that I would like the nickname to stay. I have never once said "Yep the NCAA is right. UND should give up!" No matter how you spin my words I am saying the same thing, I am just not undecided anymore. Like Mad Man said you are not on the same page. Get your head out of the clouds and actually read my posts before you quote them.
I still do mean what I said though. If the name does end up changing, it will not change the tradition and history of UND and it athletic program, but it would just take a little getting used to. My quote that you put in bold, to somehow strengthen your argument, does not argue against the first quote.
I do not see anyone supporting you on this, only poking holes in your argument.