govikes27
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Posts posted by govikes27
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...wow. OSU is trying to move on up!
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If put to a vote there is definately a chance the legislation could pass. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail and the 18 schools convince the majority that the NCAA shouldn't be messing with things on this level and not have a vote at all. If not, perhaps they could say then ALL ethnic group mascots must be retired. No matter how liberal the presidents are I don't think that will fly. But I too fear that this issue, like politics these days, might just come down to ideology and not reason...
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I'm ready to bump up! It's going to happen eventually......think about it. The DAC 10 (NAIA) is on its way to the crapper....Winning National Titles is great, but If I competing against Moorhead State, U of Mary and Sister Rosie's school for the blind, deaf and mute.....it means nothing. Obviously things need to change in some of the programs. Both Men's basketball and Volleyball must find coaches that can take them to the next level, recruit and have a passion for developing and winning. Sports like Football are ready to go. Let's level the playing field with SU. Bring back the rivalry in it's truest form. I'm not a S/D expert but I'd agree that they would probably be able to compete in the mid majors and work towards producing a few All-Americans. Baseball, Track, Softball and Soccer would need to become slightly greater priorities than they are otherwise they are just wasted budget. By that I don't mean cut the programs, but bring in coaches and Asst. Coaches that are willing to recruit and find talent. In all honesty baseball is probably never going to compete at a terribly high level thanks to location. I mean not even the Big Ten produces College WS teams on a consistent basis. If you are a good baseball player you are going to go somewhere that allows you to hone your skills year-round. The same can kind of be said for track.....however our area is producing more talent and right now they are all going to SU because of their comitment to TF. You would have to think based simply off of %'s that some of those kids would attend UND if they were as committed to the sport.
The facilities are for the most part in place. Basketball has a wonderful new arena, and has the benifit of the Ralph if necessary. Though I'd love to see the Betty rocking for a big game! Football is set. The track could use some improvements but realistically a Track Team travels more that it hosts events.
The only thing that worries me is finding a conference. I'm still a believer that if UND had moved up with SU that both would be in the Big Sky. SU's biggest problem with moving up has been the lack of a true conference in any sport! (inc. FBall) If UND can solve this quandry I think it's time to go! Don't wait around until the schedule is full of NSIC and DAC 10 schools! You're not going to draw the gates you need to be a good DII program if you are playing Crookston and Mary all the time!
I too support UND moving up. It would be nice if DII had stayed as it was 30-40 years ago, but the truth is the Montana's and Deleware's and now NDSU's are being replaced by smaller ex-NAIA schools. Nothing wrong with this (if they are willing to step up support of their athletics)--but they aren't UND's peers. Yeah, it's funner to watch and support teams close to winning a national championship, but are we happy with who we are competing against? Maybe we are, but I think that, in the long run, there is a possibility of greater interest competing against our old rivals and DI competition than playing more and more DAC schools (which will happen next year with the NSIC getting bigger and looking for fewer nonconference games). Most people I know grumble that UND plays DAC schools more and more often. Well if we want better competition, would it not be logical to go up to the next level of competition? Yeah, you could say "then we would be playing Toledo and Manhattan and other schools we don't care about." Perhaps, but going by name recognition, playing Mesa St. and Colorado School of Mines doesn't sound thrilling either.
Sorry for the long post, but I just think that looking at the size of UND's enrollment, its facilities, local support, and budget, nothing really says DII, therefore I believe the study will recommend UND moving to DI. And it CAN be successful, if the community and students are willing to work with the university to make it happen.
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If that's true, then it would be a good thing. I don't follow swimming, but i've seen several posts on here saying that even some of the mens best times (I'm not sure if that's here at UND or at NCAA D-II swimming meets) wouldn't even qualify for certain womens events at the D-I level. I don't know if that's correct or not and that's what I was referring to, but certainly signing better athletes would have something to do with that.
I'm no expert at S/D either, but I know that this year UND has beaten Northern Iowa, Wyoming, and one of the mid-major Wisconsin schools (GB?), and have gotten DI A and B cuts competing against big-timers like Minnesota, North Carolina, and Notre Dame. As far as DI status effecting recruiting we can only speculate.
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From previous posts on this board, it sounds like swimming/diving would take a huge hit too as far as being competitive.
Actually I don't see swimming and diving taking a "hit" at all. Our teams already compete against and have beaten multiple DI teams. We may not be a favorite to win nation titles anymore but I wouldn't see it as a step back. I'm no expert, but it seems considering how strong our program has been that a DI label might bring in better talent than we already do now.
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Good point dags! The administration better realize how detrimental all this uncertainty is to both the University and the NCC. Hopefully the study's finding will be a solid answer, not noncommital jiberish. THIS study is a bit quick to be thorough, but the issue has been looked at for years now. If we're DII state clearly once and for all; if we're going DI say it so we can focus on what needs to be done to get us there!
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I don't want to moan and gripe over EVERY lost this year, but what I find disheartening about this loss is that Minot's team is having a disappointing season themselves, and they still they beat UND...
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Will there be any replacement road trips for the local TV crew this season? I wouldn't mind watching the Sioux at CC or DU. Since they had been willing to go to AA and all...
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If UND were to cut the programs that UND would have no chance at all of being competitive at, would it run into Title IX issues? I know some other non-revenue sports could be increased to full scholarships, but football nearly doubles in scholarships. Perhaps adding women's lacrosse and just women's could be an answer?
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The 2004-05 average basketball attendance of the 51 schools that have joined DI-AA football since 1985 is 2,517.
The average of UND in 2004-05 was 2,791.
The average of the Big Sky schools is 2,615. (I messed up in my original post of 2,290 for BSC
)The average of the Mid-Con schools is 2,401.
The average of a possible DI NCC is 2,464.
The average of the top 9 DII conferences (excluding the NCC) is 1,239.
The average football attendance of the 51 schools that have joined DI-AA since 1985 is 5,169.
The average of UND in 2005 was 9,426.
The average of the Big Sky schools was 10,281.
The average of the Great West schools was 5,868.
The average of a possible DI NCC is 7,293.
The average of the top 9 DII conferences (excluding the NCC) is 4,223.
The average enrollment of the 51 schools to join DI-AA since 1985 is 8,939.
UND enrollment: ~13,000
Big Sky enrollment: ~17,000
DI NCC enrollment: ~12,000
Average enrollment of all schools that compete in I-AA football: ~10,000
Average enrollment of DII schools: ~4,300
The point to all this is that I think UND is more similar to DI-AA schools than they are to DII schools.
Agreed, UND is more similar to a DI mid-major than almost all DII institutions. But in terms of athletics a closer measurement might be size of athletic budgets. I know that UND's is like much larger than almost any other DII school and most of the NCC, but what what about the nearby DI conferences? I think the Montana schools have budgets around 15-16 million IIRC. I'll try to look find out, but if anyone knows or can help I'd greatly appreciate it.
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I'd have to agree. I liked the idea of Lacrosse when it was first thrown out, but after looking into it, I realize that it is not feasible. If UND did start up Lacrosse, and joined the Great Western conference, it would still likely require 5-7 flights to the eastern seaboard every year. I doubt that any attendance revenues could offset the costs of this. Baseball and softball may not be money makers or self-sufficient, but I think they are probably losing far less money than Lacrosse would.
Yeah, the amount of traveling is probably too expensive to introduce lacrosse if UND is moving to DI.
Denver has 8 road games during the 2006 regular season. Can't really call any of them a short trip, even traveling to conference opponents. I still think it would be a good addition to UND sports if it had the resources, but probably won't be happening anytime soon. -
Yep, I think there is a lot of respect towards Maine and BC; maybe New Hampshire to a lesser extent.
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Not sure that recruiting would be hurt. There are a number of gals that leave Minnesota and even ND for DI opportunities and normally they are much more inclined than men to stay closer to family:
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I have been watching that situation, also. It's extremely difficult to get "name" dI schools to travel to low to mid major schools. Looking at Montana's schedule, they very rarely get anybody decent to travel there either, and obviously they've been dI for many years. But of course, at least they have conference games with established rivals to make up for their lack of attractive non-conference home games. Maybe getting guarantees would offset the lack of home attendance to a degree, but as far as ticket sales are concerned, a move to dI would likely have a negative impact for UND. I think that's a very important fact that needs to be considered in discussing a potential dI move.
Agreed, UND shouldn't count on increased revenue in terms of attendance. Although the SU's could have a slight increase when they are accepted into a conference.
As far as DI schools coming here to play, if people are expecting Kentucky or Duke or any school of a major conference to come to ND of course they will be disappointed. But if they hope to see peer institutions (Montana, Montana St., Idaho, Idaho St., some of the New England schools perhaps, and of course SDSU and NDSU) I think they will be pleased. I think playing those schools would generate more interest than playing Crookston, Bemidji, Mayville, ect., but sometimes it seems I'm a minority.
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I agree with Sicatoka, lax might not pay for itself, but I bet it would do better than baseball and softball. It might not pay for itself, but I think it's realistic to think it might come reasonably close to breaking even. I like the idea of offering partial rides initially, that way the school still has some added tuition coming in. The crossover of hockey fans wanting to get their fix after hockey season is over is very realistic in my opinion. As far as the Average Joe, I think some might be intrigued by how physical the game is!
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Division one hockey is going to have to do something, but I just don't want the make up of our league changing, I like the fact that UND gets to play rougly 10 non conference games every year. It gives the fans a chance to see how they stack up against the rest of the competition.
The problem with the status-quo in college hockey is that all the conferences (besides the hodgepodge that is the CHA) are full, so that even if a school wanted to start up a hockey program it could have a hard time getting into a conference, especially ones west of the Mississippi. Not that there are schools lining up to have hockey programs, but hypothetically it could an obstacle in the sport's growth at the college level. I seem to recall UNO's revenue from hockey a few years after their program started turning a few heads, though I don't think anything ever really came of it. Maybe if the mythical Big Ten Hockey conference ever materializes it will shake things up. Anyways, just a few random thoughts.
Wasn't South Dakota looking at hockey a couple of years ago? What happened to that, did it just fizzle out? (sorry if it's old news)
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I love the lacrosse idea too. I would definately go to that. I wouldn't only bet it would be more watched and liked than baseball or golf, but even mens (and maybe womens) basketball. It would fit in right there with hockey.
Lets make this a reality!
I too like the idea of UND lacrosse. But, I just don't see the athletic department going for it while a DI move is in the works. It does make sense to cut baseball and softball, if they're willing to make the realistic moves. ND's climate doesn't lend itself to golf either, but I just don't like the idea of cutting a programmed required for Big Sky. Maybe we won't get in, or some agreement made, but I think keeping our options open for the time being is the best move. So that said, I'm afraid financially the money saved cutting baseball/softball will not compensate the costs of lacrosse. Does anyone know how big a budget it takes to field a lacrosse program? I would assume with it's niche status in the West it would approach hockey, but I could be wrong. Does anyone know?
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It would be awesome if UND had lacrosse!
A vastly underrated sports IMO. However, even with cutting baseball and/or softball I think it would still be costly considering there aren't many local schools with lacrosse 
.Right now I'd rather have increase funding going toward a DI move.
UND's DI review committee
in NCAA News
Posted
The students themselves are the only ones that can approve raising athletics fees, so I don't think that would be "forcing" them. You never know, maybe the student body will be willing to support athletics like a "real" DI school
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