GaryP

They are most certainly not the norm. But this type of evangelizing is on the upswing. Even Pres. Bush recently stated that he thinks America is in the middle of the 3rd "Great Awakening". This can indeed be positive. But it could also have some negative impact. The "Jesus Camp" model is I think perhaps a harbinger of things to come. Star2city-- You are certainly correct in that there have been many positive outcomes of religion and/or Christianity. You are also right that I don't understand lots of things about religion! I've had deja vu experiences also. Come to think of it my most vivid one was in Grand Forks about 35 years ago. But just because I can't explain something and/or science can't explain it yet does not make me jump to the conclusion that God did it. If I could live a few thousand more years I think that almost all the things that are unexplainable will become scientific knowledge. After all people long ago made up stories about thunder and where the sound originated. Take care.

Thanks for noticing my anti-theistical bias. I'm very proud of it! Are you saying that those who are prone to doing negative things never find a justification in the Bible? The Bible was used to justify the crusades, the inquistion, witch burnings, slavery and is still used to argue against stem-cell reseach, contaceptive devices and equality for women. From what I have seen of this camp, one would be hard pressed to find similar techniques in a mainline parochial school. Klebold-- Raised in a Jewish family. The big Jewish community center in Columbus OH is named after his mother's family. http://members.tripod.com/tmiket/membership.htm Harris--He was raised by a Christian family. He attended a youth center activity at a church 3 nights before the shootings. "Youth minister Larry Pambianco says that three nights before Columbine Eric Harris was at his youth outreach center." http://www.pneumafoundation.com/pi_4_2000.jsp His AOL member profile contains this phrase, "Nil Sine numine" or "Nothing without the Deity" http://columbine.free2host.net/profiles2.html Of course, we don't know to which deity he felt allegiance. Whether they were involved in the occult or not, their short tragic lives obviously included at least some theolgical training.

Here's some stats from more than 5 years ago. http://tinyurl.com/hzg8s I will readily concede that I'm happy to live in a country that has a majority of Christians rather than Muslims. But many Americans gloss over the parts of the Bible that could very easily be interpreted by violent -prone people to commit acts that are not "christian-like". And indoctrinating young children as they seem to be doing at this camp seems to me to make violence more rahter than less likely.

It seems to me that extremism from any religion is something to avoid. Most religions teach that it is the way to the truth and light. So if you take that to the extreme (which isn't hard to imagine IMO) it would be easy to see these kids growing up to be on the violent side. One of the clips I saw of the camp had a teacher saying that she wants the kids to be ready to "Lay their life down for Jesus". Now if she means in a martyr type situation that's one thing. But is a child going to be able to distinguish what may be a metaphor from the literal meaning of what she said? It's true that right now Muslim extremists are probably more dangerous. But you know there are some extremist Christian groups out there too. Blowing up abortion clinics has happened in our fair land. If you type in "Christian Reconstructionism" into a serach engine you'll find some fright here in the USA who advocate a literal Biblical theocracy.

Has anybody here heard of this? "These are mere snippets of Rachel Grady and Heidi Ewing's documentary Jesus Camp, winner of a Special Jury Prize at this year's Tribeca Film Festival. With near-complete access to their subjects, the filmmakers follow Fischer, Levi and two young girls, Rachael, 9, and Tory, 10, from their homes to "Kids on Fire" summer camp in Devil's Lake, N.D., where they spend a week training to be soldiers in the Army of God." (Ironic that they chose DEVIL's Lake. Wanted to confront the beast in his home perhaps.) http://www.csindy.com/csindy/current/film2.html Here's some video from the camp; http://tinyurl.com/gtbp6 IMO, some of this is a little scary. These kids should be allowed to look into religion when they get older and make up their minds when they are more able to think for themselves. "The great trouble is that the preachers get the children from six to seven years of age and then it is almost impossible to do anything with them." -- Thomas Edison

Facts are verifiable. And I've heard the movie ain't that great too.

From your perspective I think I CAN see why you are PO'd. But there are many books out there questioning other faiths too. I think that it feels like more who question Christianity because this country is so overwhelmingly Christian. As an atheist, I can assure you that those other religions are pretty open to question and debate. I DO feel fortunate to live in a country which at least pays lip service to Church-state separation. And I'd much rather live in a predominantly Christian country than a Muslim one. IMO, Christianity is much more civilized due to the effects of the Enlightenment. If not for that, the more fundamental Christians would be just as dangerous as the more fundamental Muslims. There are a few in our country who DO seem just as dangerous, at least to me; Reconstructionism argues that the Bible is to be the governing text for all areas of life--such as government, education, law, and the arts, not merely "social" or "moral" issues like pornography, homosexuality, and abortion. Reconstructionists have formulated a "Biblical world view" and "Biblical principles" by which to examine contemporary matters. Reconstructionist theologian David Chilton succinctly describes this view: "The Christian goal for the world is the universal development of Biblical theocratic republics, in which every area of life is redeemed and placed under the Lordship of Jesus Christ and the rule of God's law." http://www.tylwythteg.com/enemies/reconstruct2.html

I always wonder why those of the majority faith sometimes feel so threatened. Makes one think that perhaps their faith is not as strong as they would like others to think. As Jon Stewart intimated on a recent Daily Show, the idea that Jesus was married and had a child seems unbelieveable to many yet that he was born of a virgin, walked on water, raised the dead and rose from the dead is treated as indisputable history.

The article mentions protesters outside the theater. Does anyone know if this activity is being organized by some churches in town or is it an independent group?

Here's the link to Frozen Four Alumni parties. http://www.undalumni.org/FrozenFour-satelliteparty.htm Afraid I'm not near any. Guess I'll have my own party at home!

Ohio University is the "other" school I named. http://www.ohiobobcatshockey.com/

While watching the ESPN Plus telecast of the Ohio State - Penn State BB game today, the play-by-play guy referred to the NDSU HOCKEY team! His name is Tom Hamilton http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/...rs.jsp?c_id=cle He and his color guy Greg Kelser were commenting on NDSU's BB upset of Wisconsin. Kelser said something to the effect " Didn't you know NoDak State has a basketball team?" And Hamilton replied " I know theyve got a hockey team" (paraphrase). I can't find an e-mail address for him. It would be nice if someone could contact him and set him straight.

Of course I hope the best for him and for all down there. I hope that nothing like this ever happens again to anybody anywhere.

The hurricane must have been absolutely terrible. I certainly sympathize with all who were affected and I've donated to the Red Cross. But you know as an atheist I get a little tired of all the "praying for you" stuff after a disaster such as this. It seems to me that if there is a god, he either caused this thing to happen or he could have prevented it and decided not to do so. So while I respect anyone's perogative to believe what you will I just haven't seen any evidence in my 55 years that believing in a god makes any tangible difference in what happens and what doesn't happen.

Sad story; "While Laker football coach Chuck Martin could not be contacted before publication, he stated on the Laker football Web site, "[Jermaine Brown] was a tough, hard-working individual that knew what it took to excel on the football field as well as in the classroom. Jermaine was a great friend and teammate that will be missed by all." http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news?slug=uw...uwire&type=lgns

The Columbus Dispatch had a couple of nice stories in today's paper. It's a paysite but this is a little bit of each; This was on the front page under the fold: So, with the sports commission in the lead, Lane Avenue east of the Schottenstein Center will become party central on Thursday, the day of the two semifinal games. At Riverwatch Tower, fans can watch the games on a bigscreen television, buy food and drinks, play interactive games and have team logos painted on their faces. At the Schottenstein Center, they can play football, soccer, hockey and participate in team relays on a special field on Thursday, Friday and Saturday; watch team practices today and Friday; and skate on the Frozen Four ice for free on Friday. OSU shuttles will run continuously between the Schottenstein Center and Downtown, and among university-area hotels, near game times on Thursday and Saturday. There also will be shuttles to the farthest reaches of the Schottenstein Center

Here's a site with some info. http://columbus.citysearch.com/section/restaurants_bars

Re: Things to do in Columbus; One of the better US zoos is in the city; http://www.colszoo.org/ Ohio State's Baseball team is playing Purdue that Friday evening. Here's the athletic Dept's site; http://ohiostatebuckeyes.collegesports.com/ There's a COSI downtown. They currently have a display of artifacts from the Titanic. http://culture.ohio.gov/project.asp?proj=cosic And it's the state capital. I think you can get a tour of the capitol building most any time. Have fun while you're all in Central Ohio! I graduated from UND in '73. Haven't seen the Sioux live since then. Am trying to get tix.

I live just south of Columbus. The rink is fairly new and quite nice. Here's the Shottenstein Center's description; http://www.schottensteincenter.com/section...nfo/history.asp