kiyoat
-
Posts
87 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by kiyoat
-
-
On 12/29/2017 at 11:46 AM, jacksfan29 said:
The tournament is the highest drawing mid-major tournament in the country.
Yup. No reason to move it IMO. Don't mess with success.
We have seen years when SDSU was not in the title game. [...] That game still drew over 5,000.
I agree that many of the Jacks fans show up to support the tourney regardless of participants. I applaud that dedication. Another reason not to move the location.
SDSU's "home court" advantage is overblown.
Sorry, but you can give data all you want. When 90% of the crowd is one team, you've got an advantage. Why deny it? Own it. I don't blame the Jacks fans for supporting their team. They are the primary reason the tournament has had the success it has had. The Yotes have been slow to reciprocate, but are starting to come around. Last year the SDSU/USD game was LIT!
To those USD fans posting. Funny how I don't hear a lot of complaints from SDSU fans who watched our 1 seeded women falling to 5 seeded USD a few years back.
Since I'm the only USD fan in this discussion, feel free to read all of my posts. You will see that I don't complain about the Jack's "home-court" advantage. I'm focused on the exclusionary ticketing practices. Geez, you guys sure are sensitive! I have heard a few Yote fans that whine about the Jacks' advantage, but most of us just wish the Sioux Falls Yotes fans would get with the program.
UND will be fine in the Summit and I expect, if UND are a high seed, your fans will travel better then NDSU.
I agree. I have looked at Attendance numbers for all the SL teams plus UND, and women's sports like WBB, Volleyball and Softball have all been well-attended and consistently attended up in Grand Forks, despite being labelled a "Hockey only" school. Both BB teams have been competitive recently, too.
The only thing that needs to change at the SLT, get rid of the 2 year ticket buying policy and adjust the days to allow for those schools further away to travel better on the weekend. A Sunday night title game would be perfect. The problem is that ESPN still dictates for TV.
This was the major point of my starting this thread. Thanks for agreeing with me.
As for schools leaving because of the tournament? IUPUI and Oakland both left the league because geographically they fit better in the Horizon. It is the same reason UND is leaving the Big Sky. Geographically it makes sense. IPFW will do the same if they get a call from the HL. It is a much better fit for them. UMKC left for a few reason but the biggest, ORU and Oakland were leaving and they feared the Summit was dying. Bad move, now UMKC want back in.
Agree on all these points. (Yuck, now I have to take a bath)
And lest you think that I'm going soft: For the record, many of the Jacks fans I have encountered at games are some of the most obnoxious, patronizing, thinned-skinned, conceited, rudest, poorest examples of human beings that I have ever met. Many of them are great, but it doesn't make up for all the turds.
I hope the men's and women's teams curb-stomp the Jacks' smug faces this season. Four times. Go Yotes, and keep the SLT in SF!
-
OH, and BTW. Thanks for your opinions. I'm always curious what other fans perspectives are. I just know it is often irritating when Jacks fans (which seem to be on every message board around but this one) come on to the USD message board and arrogantly lecture us on what the correct worldview is, and to remind us that they are superior in every way. Not all of them do that, but plenty enough.
-
12 hours ago, nd1sufan said:
Ask a regular season conference champ that just lost a championship game to a 5 seed that was playing at home if they would have rather had a tournament that made money or one that didn't favor one program every year. I think you may get a different answer.
OH, I agree that it is frustrating at times with that crowd. On the plus side, over the last three years USD fans have finally started infiltrating the Jacks stranglehold on the arena. And since we hate the Jacks, that at least gives a little balance. I guess my thought is to keep it in SF, but there is no reason to further alienate fan bases with exclusionary ticketing practices.
It's kind of like Texas ruining every conference they are in by not knowing when to quit leveraging every advantage they have, and having to dominate and control everything. I think the SLT has grown into an impressive tournament, but the conference needs to also add some equitable practices to encourage inclusion rather than the other way around.
Make it easier for fans to travel there, get good tickets, and participate. Create travel packages with air/bus fare, lodging and meals for fans of the schools that are farther away, (also so they can travel and stay together. Maybe with the teams. Increase availability of tickets for those fans, and advertise it more in Denver, Tulsa, Ft Wayne, etc. Just some ideas.
-
12 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:
UMKC did a study which is supposed to tell them what to do: stay D1, go DII, or drop athletics. No move has been announced.
Yeah, from what I have heard staying in the WAC is not an option due to travel costs. Going back to the Summit makes the most sense, but they are less than thrilled about that option. Personally, I think they would help stabilize the conference geographically (I-29 corridor, link between Omaha and Tulsa, travel partners, etc.) Their athletics aren't that strong, at the moment, but things are cyclical.
We just have to come to terms with the fact that the Summit always has been an unstable place with the membership like a revolving door. I'm very happy that UND is joining (not sure why you guys couldn't have joined this season), because having the Dakota 4 together creates a stable core to the conference. Some members will always have one foot out the door regardless of where the Conference Tourney is held. IUPUI and Ft Wayne have always wanted to switch to the Horizon based mainly on geography and travel cost. I can't blame them. WIU isn't going anywhere IMO. They founded the conference. Denver has all kinds of wild plans. Who knows what they will do. Maybe UND's addition will help with them and Omaha.
The key is to maintain viability with the auto-bid. If/when Ft Wayne leaves we will have a baseball problem (less than 6 teams). Northern Colorado would fix that, but I'm not sure if they have motivation to move. Mankato or St. Cloud would be good fits, but I don't know if they want to move up.
-
1
-
-
11 hours ago, darell1976 said:
I did the tool and it was just outside Lincoln, so keeping it a stones throw from SL campus isn’t possible with the center close to Omaha the best way to keep the SLT from a Jacks home game is to knock them out.
Try it again. I think you may not have included all four Dakota Schools.
UND, NDSU, SDSU, USD, Omaha, Denver, ORU, WIU, IPFW
With that the midpoint is just east of Sioux City. If you add UMKC its about halfway between Sioux City and Omaha. One nice thing about Omaha is that its right in the center from a transportation standpoint. There is an I-29 corridor with UND-NDSU-SDSU-USD-Omaha-KC-ORU, and an I-80 corridor with Denver-Omaha-WIU-IPFW. Its just not a neutral site. With the low numbers of UNO Basketball fans, I guess you could call it more neutral based on that. Omaha won't roll out the red carpet quite as much because there are so many other things going on sports-wise. SF is basketball-crazy that weekend.
With the Big Sky, the midpoint is near Pocatello, ID (Idaho State). Removing UND pulls the midpoint west to Twin Falls, ID (Halfway to Boise). Looking at that, it makes perfect sense why they/you chose to move the BB tourney from Reno to Boise. Larger City neutral site. Plus it's a college athletics town with Boise State there. I think its a great plan, and should get more fans there.
Its a fun tool to play with (Geo midpoint calc)
-
1
-
-
2 minutes ago, darell1976 said:
If the tournament was moved out of Sioux Falls to a more “neutral” location like Minneapolis would that favor one school over another? Maybe it should be moved out of SD for more fairness to other schools.
The goegraphic center of the conference (with UND added) is basically Sioux City. Who the Hell wants to go to Sewer City? Omaha, maybe, but nobody cares about the Summit League in Omaha. In Sioux Falls it's the main event. Lots of casual fans show up there that never attend a Jacks or Coyote game the rest of the year. Even when those two teams aren't playing there are blue and red fans showing up. I doubt you would see that in Minneapolis or Omaha. I guess I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
Check this tool out:
-
1 hour ago, Sampson said:
A fanbase/program should in no way have any sort of factor in determining a conference tournament location. The funny thing about the Jack fans is they think they have the right to host the tournament because they "make it money", and then at the same time laugh at the notion of a program like NDSU always getting HFA advantage in the football playoffs even when seeding isn't a consideration.
Conference members want a tournament that makes money and draws fans. The SLT has done that better than any mid-major tournament. The Summit has tried other locations in the past, and they were total failures. They aren't moving. Again, focusing on moving the tournament to a crappy location that doesn't draw fans is the kind of stuff that gets conference commissioners fired.
The fact that there are loads of lower-bowl tickets that are basically already sold before you even join the conference is the real crime, IMO.
-
23 hours ago, darell1976 said:
I would like to see them axe that rule and give all schools in the SL the same amount of tickets then whatever is leftover open it up.
To me, this is the model that would be the most fair. The Jacks that have invested heavily into the tournament (and have made it what it is) won't want to change anything, though.
-
The fairness thing is another story, of course. SDSU and USD will always have an advantage in Sioux Falls for fans (The Coyotes are finally starting to take advantage of that). I can see how it can alienate some other teams, but it has just done so well, that it isn't likely to move.
To me, the ticketing policy is totally unnecessary, inappropriate, and will be the straw that breaks the camel's back, assuming anyone complains about it. The problem is that the fan bases that are most affected negatively also happen to be the fans that just don't support their teams very well (IUPUI, Ft. Wayne, Western Ill) or are very fickle, and only have large fan turnouts in good seasons (Denver, Omaha). The groups that should be protesting the exclusionary ticketing policies are NDSU, UND and ORU in my opinion.
I think those groups have wrongly focused on complaining about the location, which is the one thing that absolutely will not change.
-
There are good arguments for either model (campus sites vs neutral site, and rotating neutral vs fixed neutral) in terms of fairness, but at the end of the day, I think conferences value the $$ and attendance to determine if the tourney is a success.
Quite frankly, the SLT has been an unquestionable success in that regard. So much so that other mid-major conferences have tried to model their tournaments after the Summit. (Big Sky and Horizon) last year the SLT's average attendance per session (9,978) was the best of all mid-major, and better than two high-major conferences. Just below the P-5.
I looked at all the mid-major tournaments currently, and only five of them still follow the higher seed/campus model. All of them are lower-attendance conferences, and they probably will get better attendance on campus overall. There are a few that do neutral-site that probably should go back to campus due to poor attendance.
Another thing to consider is the fact that the men/women are combined. This is a huge boost to the women's teams (of which UND has a good one), and provides more incentive and travel cost-savings for fans. That is something that both the Big Sky and Horizon have added to their tournaments recently. At the end of the day, very spread-out conferences save travel expense by not doing campus sites IMO.
-
Hi, guys. Just wanted to get some UND opinions on the Summit League Tournament in Sioux Falls. I realize you won't be playing there until March of 2019, but I wanted to see what you know about it and think about it.
The "SLT" has generated a lot of heated discussion with Summit League fan-bases, both positive and negative. Some schools, like Denver and Oral Roberts dislike the fact that they have to travel so far, or dislike Sioux Falls, or think that the location should rotate for fairness. I disagree with all of those arguments. Sioux Falls is centrally located and has proven that they can support the tournament with NCAA-record crowds and a first-class arena that is perfect for basketball.
Many have complained that it is basically a home game for SDSU. As a Coyote fan I hear that argument a lot. My response to that is that Rabbits fans supporting the tournament are the primary reason for it's success. You won't get the same level of BB fan support in any other location. Instead of whining we need to just show up better (especially USD fans).
The argument I DO agree with is against their ticketing policy, specifically:
1. offering 2-year all-session passes.
2. offering all-session pass holders first-option on renewal.
The net result of these two policies is that Jacks fans (and to a lesser degree, Coyote fans) that buy up all the lower-bowl tickets will hold on to those tickets as long as they keep renewing. To a school just joining the Summit, like UND, that is patently unfair IMO. I don't know if UND will sell lots of SLT tickets to fans, but to be "boxed out" of the best seats prior to even joining doesn't seem like an appropriate model for a conference tournament.
Maybe you guys haven't given this much thought at all. Just wondering if you have an opinion.
Go Yotes!
Hawk's opinions on the Summit League Tourney in SF
in Men's Basketball
Posted
Sorry guys. I guess I jinxed your board with this post.... Must have drawn Rabbit posters here. He probably couldn't help it. You know, like rabbits are compelled to eat their own poop.