DUGrad

Where did you hear this?

I just read the post in the other thread... How come the moderator closes this right away? No chance for NDSU fans to respond. What a load of crap. Over on the Bisonville board I notice that threads aren't shut down after NDSU fans start threads about UND. The moderators allow sioux fans to respond (and they do). IMO it's gutless for the moderator to shut out NDSU fans from posting.... If this is going to happen the moderator should remove the whole post.

Any idea when the NCAA will make their decision regarding UBC? Everyone keeps on talking about it but if it doesn't happen IMO UND has no chance.

Regarding the fans who want Big Sky... Do they know that NDSU would have to add tennis and find homes form Baseball, Softball, Mens Soccer??? While those are not big money sports they certainly are important (especially softball which I believe had much success at the D2 level). The Mid-Con is a much better match for NDSU.

Why do you believe that there are more UND grads in Portland and Denver than in Chicago, Indy, Kansas City and Detroit??? For some reason I think that North Dakota grads probably stay in the Mid-West. I would be willing to bet that there are more grads in those four cities than in Portland and Denver. There might be non conference games every few years between NDSU/SDSU and UND. It won't happen every year though. The lure of big mney from teams like Minnesota, Iowa, etc is too much to pass up. Given the choice, NDSU would take the money and run ---- every time.

For some reason I don't think that the casual fans would know the history of ANY of the schools not named Montana, North Dakota or South Dakota. Further more I think that the casual fan will go to any game which is convenient for them - regardless of name. Why wouldn't you want to be in a conference who has IUPUI - the only school abreviation that can be spelled the same forward and backward!

That's exactly what I don't understand. So my question is where all the extra money comes from? Certainly the BSC schools would be less of a draw in basketball than the Mid-Con. With the Mid-Con comes with the following advantages: 1. Playing NDSU/SDSU and possibly USD twice year in basketball - after all with the theory about the BSC, no where is it mentioned that USD would be in that conference. 2. While North Dakotans might love to play the Montana teams, the reality is that the Mid-Con's team are MUCH MUCH closer. It is very possible that (outside of the dakota schools) UMKC and Western Illinois would become rivals since their proximity is closer than most of the schools in the Big Sky. 3. Time Zones.... With the addition of UND the BSC will span 3 timezones, there will little to NO TV/Newspaper coverage same day (for TV) and next day (for newspapers) for games that are played in the Pacific Time Zone - this would include games against portland, sac state and UBC. If these games are played with a 7pm start, the games would end around 9:00 or 9:30. That would mean it could possibly be 11 or 11:30 Central Time. That would obviously miss the news and most newspapers have deadlines of midnight for next day print. I doubt that most of those games would get published. 4. With a significant percentage of your games in the pacific time zone and lack of tv/newspaper that will make it harder for people to keep up on what's going on with UND athletics. That will single handedly have an effect on the casual fan - which makes up at least 10% of each home draw. The way I see it, the ability to play home games against NDSU, SDSU, USD, Oral Roberts, UMKC and Western Illinois has way more benefit($$$) than one homegame a year versus Montana and Montana State.... The choice should be clear. I don't understand why there are not threads with scenarios of how UND will get into the Mid-Con. Your chances are MUCH MUCH MUCH better there than in the BSC. After all, it's hard to get interested in teams when you only hear about 1/3rd of the games.... Yes, and I know about Big Sky TV.... The fact is that MOST fans will not pay for such a service. Maybe the die-hards but 90%+ won't spend money on that.

If they went D2, what sports would compete at the D1 level? Hockey and ?? Iguess everyone assumed that they would go D1 right away due to size but in some respects there might be value to go d2.

I still disagree with your perception of the Big Sky. Here is why... Indy, Chicago, Kansas City, Detroit and Tulsa. These are a few of the cities where there are Mid-Con teams. With big market cities comes exposure as a conference. I think that the folks in North and South Dakota probably had heard of the BSC due to their georgraphic closeness to Montana and Montana State, I don't believe that the BSC is more "known" than that of the Mid-Con. If we're honest with each other the only sport that is really known nationally (among all D1 schools) is Basketball. Most people around the major cities in the country don't know much about D1AA football - even though the BSC has had success in that sport. If you ask most college sports fans around the nation, they have heard of schools like Oral Roberts and Valpo(due to the national bball tournament). While you might want UND to be a part of the Big Sky (almost entirely due to football) you will find that the lure of D1 basketball will SOON overshadow your football program(regardless of DII success). If UND really wants to make it's name known nationally (because let's be honest most the nation could care less about hockey) the smart move would be to go east to the Mid-Con. I am wondering what the folks over at USD think. They don't have any connection to DU, UBC or the Montana schools. I would think that they might be leaning towards the Mid-Con. After all, I think that they are much more into bball than baskeball.... If they lean towards the Mid-Con this might kill your chances for a travel partner to the BSC (even though no one has seemed to mention them in this discussion).

I am wondering what having a common peer school has to do with Athletics? While I think that it's important that a conference isn't made up of horrible academic schools, the fact that the schools are "land grant" doesn't seem to make much sense to me. The only thing that I think is truly important (from an athletics perspective) is $$$. No matter the conference UND would be wise to join one which will have similar schollys. I do think that the Montana schools would be a good rivalry but not as good as that of NDSU, SDSU and USD. The history between those three schools can not be argued. In my opinion, I think that UND and USD should join SDSU and NDSU in the GWFC. If they can also get into the Mid-Con, all of a sudden a large percentage of the Mid-Con consists of plains states (including UMKC). For that to be the case Centenary and possibly SUU would have to leave. If that were to happen I think that the Mid-Con (in conjunction with GWFC) could possibly become a premier league. As it stands now the Mid-Con seems to be a stepping stone for bigger better pastures. UND and USD could add HUGE amounts of stability and credibility to that league. As far as perception around the nation. I don't know that I agree that the big-sky is more prestigious. They are only known in football. Even then they are usually only a middle of the pack conference. The BSC has quickly been outdone by the GWFC(even with only 5 teams).

I read and re-read your post... A few things that I don't get... 1. You mention that a third school would be needed to get the BSC to 12... Is this assuming that DU joins the BSC with UBC? The presumed third school would be UND? 2. Why would SUU destabilize the BSC? Are the Montanta schools looking to leave and would that push them over the edge to do so? What are the chances that BOTH Montana schools get into another league? 3. The last thing (and I am probably the least knowledgable person on this board), why would UBC's allowance into the NCAA make schools like Portland State, Sac State and NAU want to include UND? I get the DU rivalry with UND and the familiarity/likeness of the Montana schools. That would certainly make a case for those schools to vote in favor. In my opinion, unless UBC and DU's addition gets them more $$$ from the NCAA they would never want to accrue the extra expense.... More travel = more expense. Is there some reason that i'm not seeing regarding the swaying of those three schools??? From what i've read, NDSU/SDSU were not considered becasue of travel expense. Certainly those schools are all similar institutions. Presumably if money is the big issue in their case why would it not the the deciding factor in UND's case?

I understand that this thread is speculative at best. My question is why the posters to this board are stuck on the Big Sky? I would think that the Mid-Con would have more to offer UND than the Big Sky. In my opinion, the only thing that the Big Sky seems to offer (over the Mid-Con) is 1 division for all sports. Outside of that the Mid-con seems to be better. They have better teams and better markets which make recruiting and national exposure (as a whole) easier... As it stands, the GWFC seems to have as much or better talent than the BSC. Assuming that the GWFC adds UND and USD that league (with association with Mid-Con) could stand to be one of the more talented divisions in D1AA. While there currently is no autobid for playoffs this could certainly be possible in the next 3-5 years. Outside of an autobid, I forsee at least one team from the GWFC added as an atlarge bid for football playoffs in the near future. So, in the end, I question why UND fans would be stuck on the BSC when there really is no big advantage.

I'm new to this whole conversation. I live and work in Denver and was talking to a co-worker who is a UND graduate. I had never heard of the whole "UND to Big Sky" debate until yesterday. My co-worker told me to check out this board and look at the theory. I read various threads and here are some thoughts..... After reading the scenario, I just don't know if the scenario really seems realistic. In my opinion, several things would need to occur prior to UND/USD being looked at. NAU, Eastern Washington and Portland State would all need to change their mood on travelling to the Dakotas. While UND might be a great academic and athletic school the fact is that those schools simply don't have any motivation to expand that far east. If the conference was looking to expand there would need to be significant interest by at least 2 of those three schools. I am not totally sure but I believe that 7 of 9 schools would need to vote for a UND site visit in order for it to happen.... NAU might be able to be convinced but I don't know about Portland State and East Wash... Another thought regarding expansion to Canada, USD and UND. If the Big Sky were to expand the Canada school would get in right away. That puts the BSC at 10 teams... If there where thoughts of expanding further wouldn't they take a look at SUU before coming to the Dakotas??? At most of the schools in the BSC, money is a HUGE HUGE HUGE deal... While academic quality, programs, etc are important, the conference is for athletics and ultimately, cost will be the decision maker. SUU has horrible programs but the low cost of travel, in my opinion, would be more important than the quality of UND/USD's programs. Maybe i'm missing something. While the theory can not be ruled out (since the BSC officially has no comment on UND/USD), shouldn't the Sioux backers try to temper optimism since it's less than realistic? Please someone post something that makes sense regarding expansion. Most of what's posted seems like propaganda and there obviously is much hate between NDSU and UND people. Since i'm not really interested in either of your schools (i'm not into hockey) someone please respond and be objective about reasons why this might be feasible.... I'm open to other ideas.