Chewey
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Posts posted by Chewey
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Judging from the message boards and media response, it seems very few fans actually support this decision.
I would urge sympathetic Minnesota grads to take the time to write a letter (a real letter carries much more weight than an email) to Maturi and this advisory committee simply noting such.
They are in these positions to represent our interests as stakeholders, and if the fans overwhelmingly want to see North Dakota on the schedule, those opinions could actually affect them. As a Minnesota alum and former non-hockey Gopher season ticket holder, I certainly intend to write such letters.
While I am not a UMTC alum, I do hold gopher season hockey tickets and I too will write a letter. This is the last year that I'll have the hockey tickets. It will be worth it not to suffer through hearing that annoying PA guy they have back who says "rah" after the fans say "thank you" when he announces that there's one minute left in the period. The coverage on FSN is great anyway and they show all of the games now except UAA away. Now they even show Mich. Tech away. The next thing you know the NC00 will try to harass my alma matter for calling its players the "Johnnies." I can see a "sexism" allegation in the works there.
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I guess the place I see the difference is that throwing rabbits on the ice shows team spirit, probably negative team spirit, but team spirit nonetheless. I played for Minot and was on the ice when rabits were thrown on the ice. The rabits came from the crowd, not the players. In this instance it was a Minot player showing up not only the opposing team, but his entire team by failing to celebrate with them, and celebrate in his own STUPID way. Like someone said, his teammates skated away from him....not getting to celebrate a "team" goal....
I'm sorry that this happened. I know you're from Williston, and hopefully when these teams play again nothing happens in regard to a player getting hurt...
Those were the days.....When we played Jamestown, they'd throw dead birds on the ice.
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To all Sioux Fans,
It has become abundantly clear to me that even if the court case goes our way and even if a tribal council allows for the use of the name, we will constantly be harassed by the opposite side. To that extent, the best possible solution for UND and Fighting Sioux Fans is to create a law...Very much like the last house resolution sanctioning the NCAA. But since that resolution most likely ended with the 109th congress, we need to do more to make this a reality! Does anyone know of a good site or book on how to establish a PAC? I would like to see some pressure applied on our ND congressional delegation as well as any others that may need reminding that the small group of academic PCs and native americans worried about the nickname is significantly smaller than the majority of voters who helped them get elected last time! Any information would be greatly appreciated...
BobIwabuchiFan
I would be more than happy to participate in this. I have a friend who is pretty knowledgable about it. This is a really good idea.
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Pretty classless thing of that Minot player to do, I cant say Im surprised though...Why do we have to have a seperate thread for western hockey? Isnt the ND High School Thread good enough for the rest of you?
Because they never condescend to talk about the west....hardly....other than to deride the hockey. Minot, Jamestown and Bismarck....Minot at least ..... used to be well respected by the east. What a bunch of classless knobs. No wonder they suck. No drive other than to do that?
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Call me old school, but that was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen in a high school hockey game...Yeah you scored a goal, but why on earth do you show up the other team by getting the puck out of the net and then signing it like some primadonna football player. For any Williston fans or other hockey fans I apologize for this because Minot already has a bad reputation in cities around the state. Gosh...I just don't know what else to say...
Personally I think he should have been given a penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct, but then I guess some people I talked to had no problem with it. Still, there is no place for that in the game of hockey.
I've NEVER been more upset after a Minot goal....
Agreed. That's bush league. He should have had his a$$ skated off too by the coach. They can not even be competitive at state against the east and this guy acts like an all star. I don't think Samson had the best control over the players when he was coach so, over the years, Minot players may have done a lot to get them a bad reputation across the state. With Olson for whom I played, crap like that would not have been tolerated and you would have been suspended. What a nimrod. By the way, why does the west stink so badly vs. the east. We competed with them just fine. What's happened?
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Contact their legislators? And tell them to do what exactly? Make them put UND on the U sports schedule? If we want a public backlash, lets see what happens when the MN house reconvenes and Pogemiller says some boosters are wasting his time trying to change a policy he wholeheartedly agrees with, concerning a nickname he finds offensive, all the while he is trying to fund healthcare for uninsured MN children. Don't think that SoB wouldn't do it either. That's just the state reps, God knows what the Federal reps would say about it. Don't make this political. Lest we forget, Minnesota is snuggled right between California and Massachussetts on the political spectrum. It's not like in ND.
Either persuade the advisory comittee, or wait out the clock on Maturi. I think that's the best shot at success.
My point is to have the fed. legislators support legislation reigning in the tactics of the NC00. There was some movement on this earlier this year. I agree that MN is a god-forsaken leftist state but this state is remarkably getting more right as the years go by. I'd give it another 100 or so. The point is that we have an abusive entity with a lot of power that is exercising that significant power in an ad hoc manner to the detriment of other parties. We have laws for banks and other institutions limiting powers that they have and protecting parties affected by those powers. It would be no different for the NCAA. While it is a "non-profit," and there is plenty to show that it really is not, it can still be regulated and it should be regulated hard. It is a de facto monopoly and should be busted up. If the legislators had the balls to do it in 1984 against Ma Bell, they could conceivably grow balls again and do it to the NC00.
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There seems to be some discussion of Minnesota's "advisory committee" here. We at Illinois have a Student-Faculty Senate, and they've been against Chief and the nickname for quite a while. I'm not suprised that a faculty committe at Minnesota has taken a similar preachy stand. Its symbolic, cheap and harmless to them. Of course, actually going to a reservation (or any underprivliged community either within the US or internationally) is something they haven't considered. But lectures? Sure, we can do that. Wait, we're coming out with an advisory policy on shoes, coffee and Venezeulan oil real soon.
In short, you can't force someone to play you. All you can do is continue to be the best team you can, and wait for them in the NCAA's. And play those teams who will play you, and wait for the "Minnesota is hiding behind their 'policy' because they're afraid they'll lose to North Dakota" stories in the newspaper.
One last though-is Minnesota a Nike school? This advisory committee seems like they've got a LOT of time on their hands. Have they come down with a pronouncement regarding Nike's sweatshop labor, egregious corporate profitering, etc? If so, has the Minnesota AD done anything about that???
Of course not. That would take too much time and may result in the free uniforms and other sports equipment that may be donated to the school by Nike in exchange for the right to advertise. Is there anything that the Illinois U.S. reps are doing to address this business? I thought that one sponsor of some legislation was from Illinois. ND's clowns can't be counted on because they were/are in the hip pockets of some of the tribes (See Jack Abramhoff (sp?) scandal). I live in MN and our reps are just as bad. Even our republican senator is a mushy weenie. Good points all.
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And *who* is the beneficiary of your alleged fight? Alums who can thump Sioux logos on our overpriced jerseys and sweatshirts? Sure, we can beat the NC$$ in court, and public opinion, and do what? We may have a judgment that probably will not extend beyond GF County. We can rightfully point out the hypocrisy of the NC$$, and schools have decided to not schedule UND because of the name/logo, and keep ourselves warm with insults against pencil-neck PC losers.
However, is the school better served because more natural rivals like Wisco, Iowa or Minnesota refuse to schedule our teams? Will we feel better, or draw enough fans, playing Northern Illinois or Central Florida? Will we draw the fans and other support necessary to support these programs? Are you more proud of UND as an institution, or the name/logo?
I've always expressed support for the name/logo, so long as the school and its students were not adversely affected by it. Well, it seems like the holes are starting to appear on the dikes. A smooth, finanically viable move to D1 takes precedence over the name/logo IMO.
As far as "weak knees" ... I'll be in St. Louis for the Frozen Four if you really want to finish this discussion.
Just because PC ninny institutions like UMTC, WISCO and IOWA (pink visting FB locker room and all), institute "policies" supporting an irrational and racially motivated NC00 mandate we are supposed to stop defending UND against baseless allegations of institutional racism? Racist policies of UMTC, WISCO and IOWA buttressing an even more racially sinister NC00 policy and UND still winds up being labeled the racist institution? Lest we forget, the onus of "racism" is on the NC00 as it has always been the one invoking the concept. Conceptually, it is no different that the ravings of loons like Al Sharpton or his polar opposite, David Duke. It's insane. What the majority needs to do is get motivated like the small cadre of PC nazis. Of course, the people in the majority have jobs, lives, families, jobs that actually stimulate the mind, so they don't have time to fixate on such madness like the college professors during their office hours or sub-par decade-long students. Seriously, is anyone in the alumni department doing anything to organize people around the country to contact their legislators?
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To all,
When is it the right time to stand up and fight? Was it when Engelstad built the rink and brought pride to our small town and state? Was it when the Fed Gov investigated the campus and found no examples of racism/bigotry against native americans? Was it when the NCAA applied the ridiculous 'hostile and abusive' moniker? Was it when Kupchella and the ND AG filed the case? Was it when the injunction was won? I ask this simple question because so many on this board have decided to fight and have now gotten reservations because the University of Minnesota doesn't want to schedule us - Having known the gophers wouldn't play us, would you have chosen to even begin the fight? If you start the fight, then you better damn well be ready to finish and not pussy out by throwing in the towel! In addition, stop throwing in the 'poor atheletes' excuse because this fight is bigger than some kid who thinks he or she is suffering while getting a top notch education on scholarship while playing a game they most likely have loved since being a kid
- its a non-starter in my mind and doesn't remove your responsibility for bailing on the fight because you get a little case of weak knees.... Now, bring on the excuse makers, rationalizers, and the compromizers...
BobIwabuchiFan
Very well said.
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Regardless if UND wins in court, it may still face a "100 Minnesotas" in the future. A favorable ruling would not require every school in the land to schedule UND, and very desireable schools are very likely to take Minnesota's tack, hypocritical as it is, like Michigan or BC in hockey, or Wisconsin or Iowa in football, or whatever. Regardless of the legal merits of this case, I find myself growing very irritated with those who want to make keeping the name a cause celeb among the right-wing bloggers, the same way the bed-wetters have done on the left. Maybe I'm too much of a pragmatist to really think the name is bigger than the school itself.
If the use of the name/logo puts the school and/or its athletes in a less than desirable situation, at D1, D2, or wherever, it's time for it to go. At the end of the day, "moral" victories are usually Pyrrhic victories in drag.
While I appreciate the points about Pyrrhic victories and the name appearing larger that the university itself, I disagree with them though they are cogent points. The issue is larger than the name. Ultimately, the issue is that the NCAA is usurping UND's/STate of ND's autonomy and ram-rodding PC policy down everyone's throats where it has no standing or cause to do so other than being virtually the only collegiate sports money making affiliation. What is next? A lot if nothing is done and if capitulation is the coin of the realm. Ultimately, it is the fact that the NCAA as a private (supposedly) body is setting forth "policy" and enforcing it to the financial detriment of public institutions. Such policy interferes with the proprietary interests/rights that such universities and states have. It has no business doing this at all. Like many have said, if the state/alumni/students vote to change the name, fine. A lot of good and positive change can come from winning such a fight. The publicity would be a beneficial thing. There are a lot of people vexed by the NC00 and its practices/failures and this would only add more arrows to the quiver. Ultimately, the legislators, weenies though they are, need to pass some legislation involving the NC00. If ND's three stooges were not so wobbly, I guess I'd have hope that they'd take the lead. I think the alumni from the respective affected schools such as UND, Illinois, etc need to get organized as a block and make some phone calls and write some letters.
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Ryan Bakken blog entry.
Bakken seems like an absolute weenie on this. There are legal experts, a lot of them, who say that UND can prevail. This attitude should make people even more irate and firm their resolve against the PC lunacy. This is a battle that needs to be fought irrespective of other issues which have been thrown in the way to detract our focus from the issue at hand. If schools elect not to schedule the Fighting Sioux, we will deal with that issue later. You win a fight by focusing on the issue at hand and then another. You don't simply capitulate just because other challenges may lie ahead. I view the MN thing as an opportunity. Like someone else said, subpoena the phone/fax/email records of various parties to see who's been contacting whom. The PC types are arrogant but not necessarily smart or attentive to detail. UND needs to see the lawsuit through. Somehow I do not think the alumni will take anything less than that. At least this alum will not accept anything less than that.
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Other than the facts that the UofM is close, there are a lot of Sioux fans/alumni in the TC, and the Gopher FB team sucks, why play them at all at first. I thought the Sioux were going DI-AA. Why not play Boise State, Montana State, etc.? I am sure money is part of it, of course. But really, the Gophers suck and the game atmosphere is like being at a wake. Their games are not well attended, unless they play Wisconsin and most of those fans are cheese heads. It is not the kind of money that a Michigan/NOtre Dame game would bring. The Sioux would their butts kicked if they were to play Wisconsin in FB. Given UND's size, I don't see them playing any of the Big 10 schools consistently anyway. I don't think it really adds a whole lot to a program when that program plays larger, more well known schools and gets pounded by 40 points. There are plenty of I-AA schools that would fit very nicely into UND's schedule.
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This might be one factor to consider: Which school do you think Gopher fans would rather play in football and basketball? UND or NDSU?
I know it's not an "either/or" question. However, I can't help but wonder how many Gopher boosters might be telling the AD that he's nuts for not finding a way to schedule the Sioux, especially when he's not bound by the advisory committee's decision. We have a traditional and heated rivalry with Minnesota. NDSU doesn't. Which games are likely to put more butts in the seats?
I agree. I hope that UND is working toward some type of goal with that end in mind, either with the tribes in North Dakota or with the NCAA attorneys.Settlement = appeasement. As one who settles cases a lot, I am intimately acquainted with the value of settlement and saving fees, not putting the matter into a 3rd party's hands who will make a decision that neither party will like, etc. However, this is different. Settlement is only one more "feel good" step in the NC$$ policy of attrition/erosion. It only offers them an opportunity to come back later and arrogantly demand more. I don't think anyone here really appreciates how fickle reservation politics can be. Every two years different tribal chairpersons assume the helm and sweep in an entire cadre of sychophants. This is crazy. No way should UND, its fans and its teams and alumni be on a yo-yo like that. Besides, it is not necessary. UND has legal rights to the name and it should do everything to enforce and protect those rights. Continue the fight, get the issue publicity and get people riled up about it. Expose a lot of this crap going on in academia for what it is. Write articles calling out weenie legislators like Earl Pomeroy to take a stand and pass legislation reigning in the NC00. Better yet, sponsor legislation breaking up the NC00 into regional associations. It is now nothing more than a money-grovelling cesspool of corruption, a large part of the athletes can not even read or write at a fourth grade level and many of the athletes at the non-"hostile and abusive" institutions have been involved in violent acts and, in Colorado's case, prostitution.
Being pusillanimous will only invite more trouble later. All of UND alumni should be writing letters to their local newspapers, radio stations, etc. Scott Hennen should try to contact his friend, Sean Hannity, and get the topic on his radio and television programs. Settlement is the worst thing, in my opinion.
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I've said it before -- keeping the name if we remain on the NCAA's "hostile and abusive" list is insanity. I don't think the NCAA was right in creating the rule, but I also don't think we should cut off our noses to spite our faces. Standing on principle if it disadvantages our athletes, in the playoffs and in scheduling situations like this, just doesn't make sense to me.
I know a lot of Sioux fans are hoping the lawsuit is the solution; it may be, though I worry that it may not make problems like this go away. The one graceful way out would be some sort of agreement that creates NCAA-recognized tribal approval (which would placate the Minnesotas and Wisconsins we desperately need to play). However, if that were easy, UND would have done it by now.
One way or another, I think we need to get ourselves off the "hostile and abusive" list early in our D-I transition.
How about getting some legislators will spines to pass appropriate legislation?
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Oooohhh ... yeah, that's much better than "Red Hawks" or "Crimson Tide" ... if the name/logo go, I'd just as soon not engage in the idiocy required to find another one that won't cause some people to lose control of their bladders.
Asinine. What in the heck is that? This is very insane.
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Bismarck Century beat Fargo North in the first round in 2001.
I did not know about that. I'm glad I was wrong in that respect. I still think playing more games against Canadian teams like we used to do would benefit hockey in the west a lot. To a certain extent, playing new programs like Dickinson, Mandan, etc. has dummed down the quality of hockey out there. Bottineau is a joke and it used to have a very good program and the best ice sheet in the state. I still remember in 1984 when Fargo North went there expecting to blow them out in the playoffs and got their a$$es kicked. That was when Bottineau had David Vad, Brice Bergeron and Gary Belbeck. Vad was an extremely gifted player who was a lot like Lee Brodeur from Grafton. I think that there should be a mandatory number of games between west and east teams and I think the schedule should be expanded to allow the teams to play the Canadian teams. That used to be a pretty good trade off. The East would play Section 8 teams and the West, particularly Minot, would play teams from Sask. and Man.
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This year reminds me a lot of 01-01 with Andy Kollar. Andy was supposed to have been almost as good as Karl. When they both played for the FM Ice Sharks, they were almost identical. All the ice sharks really had then were Panzer, Goehring and Kollar. That 01-02 team should have done better but for the terrible goaltending. This year, it seems as if we have terrible goaltending (it should have been our strong point with Phil) and it seems as though the offense is not as good as the 01-02 team. Maybe Hak should go elsewhere in the Juniors and bring in a goaltender like Blais did with Siembeda.
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Speak for yourself when it comes to likes and dislikes of hockey east and west. If you're not a fan of hockey west, don't read about it. There are more people on this board that are interested, than not.
Nice comment for a someone who just joined this board.
During the last 13 years, the west has had some teams, particularly Minot, that have been as good as the East. Some of those teams have choked badly and I don't know what it is out there. It is not a lack of talent, in my opinion, year in and year out. When I was in high school in the early to mid 80's, we competed very well with the East every year. The west competed very well with the East for years after that. I do not know what has happened since.
The recent response just sounds like some juvenile, idiotic banter that some East ND centric types have, particularly younger ones who may have recently graduated from high school. The reason why Minot's program used to be strong was because Dean Blais was there from 1976 or so to 1980 or 81 and Bruce Olson was there then too. In Bismarck, the program was strong because they had coach Peluso. The west needs more of those types out there. If I were on the school board in Minot, I'd be trying to lure Bruce Olson or some like-minded coach out there. There is no question that Minot's 2005 team was the best in the state but choked per usual....at least per usual since 1993. Some do have a good point in that the west has not been out of the consolation round since 1992 but I do not think that it is because of a lack of talent, at least in Minot's case.
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With regard to Mankato, Jutting is a good coach but has not had much to work with talent-wise other than a few very outstanding players like Shane Joseph, David Backes, Grant STevenson, TRavis Morin, etc. He usually has a lot of young players and that doesn't help matters. I think recruiting is pretty hard in Mankato. It may pose a challenge to Blais that he would like but I really don't see him coming down here. Sure, some are losing some confidence in Jutting but I think he's still viewed pretty favorably.
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Why is it that Moorhead is so much stronger than the Fargo teams year in and year out? Other than the playing of better competition and having 3 schools -- probably a large part of it -- it seems as though the two cities would have similar youth programs being so close together. One youth program should not be that much better than the other should it? The kids in Moorhead don't dring special water that is not available in Fargo that makes them better hockey players. I've wondered why Fargo, which is about 4 times the size of Moorhead can not seem to compete more consistently with them.
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I don't mean to blame Hakstol, per se, but I wonder what consequences he has for players, even the starts, who do not perform or who are simply going through the motions. I know Blais was not afraid to sit players, even the better ones, when they were playing with low intensity or just playing badly in order to jack them up. Landon Wilson and JAson Blake are two players who come to mind, although I know there are others. I don't know what Hak does in that situation. I agree entirely with the youth point; that's big factor.
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While I think Hak is a good coach, it is evident to me that the players do not rev up the intensity to play like they did with Blais. I think, by and large, we have the same level of talent as Blais had and I would venture to say that we've had some better d-men than what he had (a lot were recruited by Blais). With Blais, the team was at the top or near the top of the league year in and year out with 94-95, 95-96 and 2001-2002 being the exceptions. On a few occasions, his teams choked. With Hak, a very talented team hovers around the middle and somehow gets up to play come second half of the season and playoff time, which is good obviously. Hak's teams have choked, in my opinion, at the frozen four. What's going on with the regular season? Is Hak just not as intense or demanding as Blais? Does he not put the fear of God or not playing into them like Blais did? With Blais, the kids were 150% effort most times but with Hak it seems the opposite. Any thoughts?
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Name and Logo supporters are told to support the change and work with the Name Change Supporters. Did we ever get a straight answer to the many times asked question, "When UND wins the lawsuit, will the name change supporters accept the outcome and work with UND to make any changes that will make the name and logo more acceptable to those few who oppose it?" I already know the answer but would still be interested in an answer that is not prefaced with all the same rhetoric that is a non-answer. A simple Yes or No will suffice.
IMHO, the use of Native American name and logo for athletic teams is because the majority (as had been shown by polls ad nauseaum) of Native Americans do not perceive them to be hostile or abusive. They are proud of the athletes who are represented by these names and logos by ANYONE.
How many times does it need saying?? The minority of a minority (a few Native Americans who presume to speak for all Native Americans), no one, has the right to 'not be offended'!! The majority of Native Americans who have been polled by independent repected poll agencies are NOT opposed to Native American name and logo use for athletic teams.
It's been stated because someone looks different, the name and logo is used to throw out racial slurs. And, if they name and logo are changed, then when a racial slur is hurled they will know that it is because they are a Native American, not a sports fan. That kind of convoluted 'reasoning' makes no sense to me. A racial slur is a racial slur and the hurler is not going to be deterred because there is no name or logo to hide behind
Native Americans aren't the only minority group who look different and are subject to racism. My older son has had long hair his entire life. His hair is still long, down to mid back. He is dark and surprisingly looks a lot like the Fighting Sioux logo. Is he hiding behind 'they're all racist, that's why I can't, I don't, no one will let me, yada yada yada.' No. He has a VERY healthy self esteem and accepts responsibility for his own actions and if someone attempts to put him down they are unsuccessful. I am proud to say that both my sons, brown, Hispanic looking boys, have healthy self esteems. They are comfortable in any any group, black, white, brown, red, yellow, etc. Why? Because while they were raised to have pride in where they come from, they were also taught that we are all God's creatures regardless of color. I pity the children who are raised in hate of other cultures, who are raised to believe the world is against them, who have parents who in the name of their race are racist.
Well, enough ....., for now.
Agreed. The other side can't offer anything other than "racist events" "racist treatment" conjured up in their own little circles. GK is a good example of this in that he ghosted himself as some third party, made entirely hateful and racist remarks and conducted himself in a reprehensible way all to forward the agenda of the name change crowd. That's pretty sick and manipulative if you ask me. Of course, the name changes whole argument is based not on fact but on manipulation. It's ok for them to be bigots because they define what constitutes bigotry? The fact that our higher institutions of learning, so-called, have produced people who use such convoluted logic with straight faces -- not to mention the professors who agree with them -- speaks volumes.
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I've tried to avoid responding to you directly but your continuous statement that someone, I believe you are referring to me, is threatening you and others (GK?) begs the question! Please cite any threats or threatening manner that I have done to threaten you or GK (dumbpeople?).
My posts stating I believe I know who you are and that I believe you are friends of GKs are made because I believe that you and dumbpeople are posting his views since he is banned from the site.
I'm not afraid to have people know I am on this forum or anywhere. As I've already posted, most SS.com members already know who I am because I've posted the my name and personal information and/or because we have met. Having someone who is I believe is a coward threaten me does not phase me or change my public stand on the Fighting Sioux name and logo.
You disagree with them. Therefore, you are acting in a "threatening manner towards me and also others." Does it make sense now? I don't think so either. Don't bother trying to figure it out. Calling out and exposing fraud and immoral behavior (See GK) is understandably "threatening" to those who perpetrate such behavior (See GK). Who are the "others"? Other ghosts?
Western HS Hockey
in Non-collegiate sports
Posted
The history of choking and crap such as what Kraft did a couple of nights ago is why the Minot High hockey program is considered to be a source of shame and embarassment to those of us who played years ago. They can't even get out of the consolation round at state and their players act like all-stars and pros. Under Samson, the hockey team had no discipline and now it has become routine part of the system. Samson's a great guy but I do not think that he was too good at snapping the kids into line. All MHS hockey players now should be aware of how sad that program is compared to what it used to be, have some humility and guts and start doing something worthwhile in the post-season.