KnowtheFacts
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Posts posted by KnowtheFacts
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An atheist school is entitled to use any name they want.
Hacking into someones account, posing as that person, posting racially inflammatory remarks while posing as that person, changing someone's password, changing someone's email contact address, sending PM's while posing as someone else, stealing and posting personal messages from the 'hacked' person's account are not ok.
WTF?
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I had actually just changed my post but you replied before the change was made. I changed the school wanting to use the Jesus mascot,etc... in my example to an atheist school. I made this change to make it more similiar to the UND situation since the majority of students and alum, etc... are not Native American/Sioux.
Holy Cross is a Catholic school so it makes sense they would be called The Crusaders and emphasize the cross, etc.... A Christian college, Wheaton College, in the state I now live changed it's name from The Crusaders to the Thunder because they didn't want to emphasize the things that happened during the Christian Crusades and because the name offended a lot of people I guess.
Um... How come it is okay for a Christian school and not an atheist school to use Jesus?
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Or just in case they never find their balls again.
It takes more balls to admit you were wrong, than it does to just keep on what you're doing. Just look at George W. and his war.
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With all due respect, Admin dude, but GK and to a somewhat lesser extent, KtF have been attacking posters on this board for weeks on end and they've avoided suspension.
It's all his following can do right now is name call. I'm tired of it. If GK has a valid point, he's yet to state it.
Hey keep me out of this, I apologized.
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Dudette, how do you associate "Savage Storm" with American Indians when there is no imagery used? That was my point.
I see what you're saying. And I think some colleges are doing some weird and interesting things to not exactly change their name (ie Red Men and now Savage Storm)
I dont know all about this situation, and from up here Savage Storm seems like a good compromise.
Your comment that I replied to had to do with the word Savages - not savage storm.
I think we view this situation from a different context and culture. Because here in North Dakota, where there is no racism, there is truly no association with the word Savages and Native Americans.
However, the region that this school is in has clearly created an association with the word "Savages" and Native Americans (where before, "there may have been none". Before- meaning pre-settlement of America. As GK pointed out - Savages is a term used by Christopher Columbus in his description of the people he met when he came to this continent).
later Dude
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I agree.
It must have been the people that thought of the name in the first place. (those racists!) Seeing as the "Savages" proponents argue that "Savages" honors Native Americans.....
http://www.sosu.edu/lib/mascot.htm
You said it, not me.
How could you possibly associate "Savages" with Native Americans when the logo design includes arrows and feathers and the mascot is a "Spirit Pony" (and was previously a Human Native American caricature)? How they get to that association is beyond me (sarcasm).
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Comparing Civil Rights to a name and logo?! You just don't get Da Pointe.
Should I use another example like say Japanese internment camps. Some Japanese did keep silent - and how did that help the situation? You have to speak up to get things to change.
Keeping silent or moving away doesnt solve anything.
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Weather that rivals that of South Beach?
People say they live in ND because they like the seasons. Winter, winter, and fall.
Lets see. I know you've been out of the game for a while, but for the most part people are limited to in-state schools unless the school they are applying to is a private university or they are well-off. In-State tuition is incredibly lower that out-of-state tuition.
In addition, UND has many quality educational programs that the other ND schools don't have. Medicine, Law, Aerospace, Physical Therapy, Physician Assistant, Marketing, Human Resources, probably some specialized nursing programs... whatever. NDSU has their own specialties - Ag and Engineering are first two that come to mind.
Although your life may revolve around hockey and preserving the logo, other people make decisions of where they want to live based on many other factors. Obviously some are willing to live in a hostile environment in order to gain other opportunities provided by living here that may have nothing to do with the logo or UND for that matter.
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Did you just do a 180?
No, 7nationaltitles is talking about 2 different things.
1. the Fighting Sioux nickname
2. the Mandan Braves nickname
I think the question is: Why arent there resolutions against the Mandan Braves nickname?
Im saying that there are. and even if you dont agree with what is said on these websites, they do provide documentation of some of those resolutions: the UND BRIDGES website and www.aistm.org
Im also said that the Sioux tribal resolutions that Im talking about are specific for UND and the Fighting Sioux nickname.
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Im sure you could find many many other schools that have Indian-related nicknames. UND is one of only a few schools that chose to use a specific Tribal Name. Thus involving those specific tribes.
So in that case shouldn't the entire Native American community be against Mandan and not any one specific tribe since they are using the all-encompassing (sp?) Braves name. Under your logic then, there should be more backlash against them because they are trying to group all Native American tribes by using the name Braves.
But my question was why isn't there any backlash by the Native American community against their name? You haven't answered that yet.
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Oh, so it's sweet with a tart tang, very juicy , and has tender, white flesh.
Whatever... I didnt say it.
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Riiiight.
That's a pretty big coinkidink isn't it?
actually, to be more precise its a McIntosh
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why do illegal immigrants come to america? Opportunity despite the risk.
I thought it was a simple enough statement to stand on its own.
The opportunity of making a better life for themselves. The opportunity of a higher education. The opportunity of showing the white man that there is a way, that there is opportunity to do better out there. The opportunity of getting so damn educated, and getting ones people so damn educated, that the stereotypes that may or may not be true can be no longer.
The risk of having to "tolerate" someone who wants to "honor" them instead of actually "listening" to them. The risk of having to hear some assholes opinion of you daily. The risk of having to walk around campus and be harrassed by people wearing a "Fighting Sioux" logo on their shirt. The risk of being lectured about the logo daily - whether you have an opinion or not.
IN ADDITION. In light of Monday's holiday. I dont think it was being too thin skinned and weak for Blacks to stand up for their right to be treated equally. They had been biting their tongue long enough and you know what it took for someone to take them seriously? Keeping quiet about it didnt work. NO someone had to speak up so that their voices could be heard.
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I'm thinking RED on the outside . . . WHITE on the inside.
It's just an apple. I actually had heard that term used for that before, but that has nothing to do with my pic. Interesting that some of you all are so interested in a picture of a fruit.
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See how much better the information can be when you clarify it? Your first post made it seem like all Sioux tribes have refused the use of the nickname. When you clarify things at the outset, it helps when you try to make your point.
Also, still waiting about the Mandan Braves corrupting young adults minds with their "abusive and hostile" nickname.
Did those 7 Sioux tribes you listed also pass similar resolutions about Mandan High School? If so, I would like to know the reason why not if anyone can tell me that.
Im sure you could find many many other schools that have Indian-related nicknames. UND is one of only a few schools that chose to use a specific Tribal Name. Thus involving those specific tribes.
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Maybe you haven't noticed, but my agenda is the same as UND's leadership and the State Board of Higher Education. I'm sure UND would be aghast to learn that someone it pays to promote the university's agenda is actually doing it.
One thing I'm not doing is typing up pages and pages of documentation to send to the NCAA on UND letterhead with my signature and official title on them. It's strange that I've never seen you or G-Krack complain about that situation. But I imagine that when multilple UND employees aren't doing their jobs because they're promoting your personal agenda, you don't feel the need to make threats.
As usual, you completely missed the point.My post addressed the curious concept of "honor" that you and G-Krack promote, which is that UND can somehow "honor" people by treating them as if they don't exist or as if they're undeserving of recognition they've earned.
You're wrong. I am not of that thought.
What are my stereotypical images and beliefs? I'd really like to know.I want to know why you think changing the logo is treating people like they dont exist. There arent any logos around "glorifying" black people? Does that mean that you treat them as if they did not exist? There arent any logos "honoring" the Japanese. The fought valiantly in war too and lost. I think these people groups get along just fine without logos in their "honor"
I think changing the logo is treating people like they DO exist and that someone actually read the resolutions that these tribes have put forward.
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When has the GOVERNING bodies of the Sioux tribes passed such resolution?
All I know of is a United Tribal Council passing one. Last time I checked, they aren't a governing body.
Still waiting.
Are you serious? I have copies of them right here. How come people seem to know about the Spirit Lake Resolution- which does not fully support or refuse the logo - but no one knows that 7 other Sioux Tribes have resolutions as well that are much more clear on where they stand on the issue.
Standing Rock Sioux Tribe (2 resolutions)
Sisseton-Wahpeton Sioux Tribe
Oglala Sioux Tribe
Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe
Yankton Sioux Tribe
Crow Creek Sioux Tribe
Rosebud Sioux Tribe
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We're still waiting for one good reason to change the name. Right now the reason is: "To make up for things that happened to us in the past."
no, no, no.
The reason is: "Because the Sioux tribes, whom you claim to be honoring, have asked UND to change the name"
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sorry PCM. My comments were out of place.
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You and G-Krack make a nice team. He's on one thread berating UND for not using the name and logo to attract American Indian students and you're on another thread berating UND for using it. Maybe you two could get together and compare notes sometime.
well sir, UND had its chance and blew it. (75 years or so) I think it is time for the name to go.
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However, they dont feel like they have to wear it on their shirt like a trophy.UND isn't the only university in the nation that promotes its minority education programs.
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Careful. That rock can be flung in many different directions, including the boomerang feature.
I dont work for UND.
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The phone rings.
KtF: Hello.
UND: Hello. Is this Ms. KnowtheFacts?
KtF: Yes it is.
UND:Ms. KtF, I'm calling to let you know that UND is going to honor you for tremendous accomplishments, your outstanding academic achievement and your important, groundbreaking contributions to the university.
KtF: Really? That's wonderful.
UND: Yes, it is. Congratulations!
KtF: I'm so overwhelmed that I don't know what to say. I've worked so long, so hard, and now...
UND: Terrific! That's what we were hoping!
KtF: Huh? What do you mean?
UND: Well, knowing how you feel about honors, we thought it best if we didn't tell anyone about this.
KtF: You mean I don't get a dinner, a plaque, a scholarship or my name in the paper?
UND: That's right. Isn't it thrilling?
KtF: Umm...well...can I tell my family about this honor?
UND: You can, but officially, we'll deny it if anyone asks. Mum's the word here. We're locking our lips and throwing away the key. You have nothing to worry about. Nobody will ever know that you were one of the greatest students to ever attend this institution. I guarantee it.
KtF: But what if I want people to know? What if it will help me get a better job after I graduate?
UND: We weighed those considerations and decided that the risks were greater than actually bestowing the honor.
KtF: What do you call this honor?
UND: We don't call it anything. If we tried to name it, someone might be offended and question whether it was actually intended as an honor. This way, our intentions remain as pure as the driven snow and nobody can claim to be offended.
KtF: So what's the point?
UND: The point is to honor you without disrespecting you by letting people know about the honor.
KtF: But what good is an honor with no recognition?
UND: Frankly, we used to operate on the same outdated concept. But then we read some of your Internet message board postings on the Fighting Sioux nickname issue and you convinced us that we were going about this all wrong. We now know that the best way to honor people is to pretend that they don't exist. That way, we avoid controversy and bad publicity. And besides that, it's a lot cheaper.
KtF: Click.
UND: Hello? Hello? Sigh. I guess she didn't want to be honored after all.
UND: Hello, is this PCM?
PCM: why yes it is!
UND: Do you ever actually work at the job we are paying you for? Or do you just spend all day chatting online and furthering your own personal agendas?
PCM: um, er....
Anyhow, a plaque award whatever you are talking about is totally different that using a sterotyped image on a hockey jersey and the nickname "Fighting Sioux" across someone's behind on their sweatpants.
I see you are of the thought that if the "Fighting Sioux" image and nick is removed then the Sioux people will fade into memory. No, only your stereotypical images and beliefs will fade.
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I don't understand why there are American Indian students enrolled at the University of North Dakota, Home of the Fighting Sioux?! Why here?
American Indians have been instrumental for the grants, etc. that partially fund the American Indian programs and services at the University of North Dakota, Home of the Fighting Sioux. Why not take those funds to Fargo, Bismarck, Minot or any school in South Dakota. Why here?
There are many good schools in North Dakota and South Dakota (and elsewhere in the United States) which offer some of the same programs that are offered at the University of North Dakota, Home of the Fighting Sioux. Why in the world would any one go to a school that they consider is hostile and abusive to them? Why here?
why do illegal immigrants come to america? Opportunity despite the risk.
What does this mean to you?
in UND Nickname
Posted
It looks like the Soldier and the Dancer (he is dressed in pretty typical Traditional Dancer Regalia) are the same person and have the same facial characteristics. Soldiers and Veterans are highly respected in all American Indian Cultures. It is always Veterans or Active Miltary who bring in and out the Eagle staff and Flags at the PowWow. Maybe it is a statement of yesterday and today and overall respect for our elders who served in the miltary (the tall grass and military uniform seem to be Vietnam era, but Im no expert). The circle is also very symbolic in this culture. The tipi design is pretty neat and you will see it in many variations on the beadwork and quillwork of Lakota dancers.
i think it is interesting how some people saw a soldier and an indian scout, when really it appears to be the same person.
Also, there were numerous Indian Languages used for the codetalking in WWII which included Navajo (which is the most well known) as well as Lakota, Commanche, Choctaw, Kiowa, Winnebago, Hopi, and Cherokee. so you're both right.