[Let the lawsuit begin]

I think you're wrong on both counts. First off the Seminoles in Oklahoma, you know decendants of the folks who survived the trail of tears, do not like the nickname. Second, even I am offended by the Illini (of which there are zero surviving members), having a white guy pretending he's a chief isn't going to cut muster with the NCAA.

Third this is not a first amendment issue, unless you're talking about the freedom to organize.

I'm actually happy that Ralph is not around. I'm glad that he was able to pass into death thinking that his Sioux were saved (though I think he would have loved the fight).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My point is simply that the NCAA will be looking for an excuse not to have to engage either of the big schools in a court battle that they will lose. As far as the Illinois mascot, please see the posting by Runninwiththedogs in the forum 'NCAA bans indian mascots post season play' for someone with firsthand information.

QUOTE(Runninwiththedogs @ Aug 7 2005, 07:23 PM)

Some of you may be aware (or were once aware and forgot after too many beers) that I went to Illinois, which is, as was mentioned in one of the articles cited, one of the highest profile schools involved in this lawsuit. All of Chief Illiniwek's costume was donated by Native Americans, the Chief has to be part Native American, and he has to spend time with the tribe learning about the culture. It's not some idiot in red-face whooping around in the stands. He doesn't do tricks, run stupid contests, or cut ribbons at supermarkets. The "Fighting" part of the Fighting Illini was meant to honor veterans who were affiliated with the university. So the liberal blowhards can b*tch all they want, but they're waaaay off the mark. God, is it ever offensive to honor military veterans...

[Let the lawsuit begin]

I agree it is frustrating, but I'm not so quick to jump on the administration for a lack of action. If history has taught us anything about our great university, it is that we don't jump into things without testing the waters. I happen to agree with this. If it turns out that Florida State is going to lead an aggressive charge to overturn this ruling, I say by all means let them. I have no reservations about riding on the coat-tails of a university with:

1) A kick-butt legal team

2) Considerable financial recources

3) Incredible national exposure

Yes, I'd like UND to join in the fight, I have no doubt that they will. However, if another institution wants to step up and expend their resources at the forefront, and be afforded more national exposure than any other university on "the list"... I am more than fine with that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess the biggest problem I see with waiting is the fact that the NCAA is constantly pointing to their appeals process as the solution. I have no doubt that FSU will win their appeal to the NCAA given their relationship with the Seminole tribe in Florida. Then the whole problem goes away on a national level as soon as Illinois points out that their mascot is designed by tribal members as well. The NCAA will grant these two high profile schools exceptions rather than deal with a First Amendment fight in court. So that leaves the NCAA with a bunch of lesser known schools that are not well known on a national level to deal with. Much easier to tell them that they have to comply with some trumped-up bunko rule when the big guns have been given an exception and nobody on a national level is watching the issue anymore. I guarantee you that if Ralph was still with us there would already be papers filed at the courthouse. I guess I don't really expect much of a response from the administration based on how they have handled the name issue in the past, but it was refreshing to see FSU's president come out instantly against this instead of hiding behind more studies. I must just be missing the Tom Clifford days again....

[Let the lawsuit begin]

Here is where my problem with this whole thing is: Within minutes of learning of this, Florida State's president was vowing lawsuits and any other measures necessary. Now they have secured legal counsel. And what has UND done? All that I have heard from them is that they are waiting to see how it affects them or something to that effect. I think it is pretty clear how it affects them, regardless of the actual wording in the ruling from the NCAA. Now is the time to draw the line in the sand and fight and stop the whole 'We are looking into it' nonsense. If Ralph is rolling over in his grave as has been previously suggested in another thread, it is because of the weak to nonexistant response from UND.