mksioux
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Posts posted by mksioux
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10 hours ago, JackJD said:
Okay, I'll let myself out of the room and assign myself to message-board detention after submitting the longest post on a minor point barely connected to the topic of this thread. JackJD
The article that you posted (which was circulated and discussed on this board at the time) shows that the MVFC had no interest in adding UND back in 2010. Unless something has changed, I don't see any reason to think UND might be going to the Summit/MVFC. Does the MVFC all of sudden want to go to 11 teams, which they were so adamantly against back in 2010? I doubt it. And I'm someone who would love to see UND in the Summit/MVFC, but I just don't see it happening unless the MVFC loses a team or two.
I have no interest in pursuing a Big Sky football-only membership and going to the Summit for other sports (even if it were a possibility, which I doubt it is).
In short, the MVFC holds all the cards. If they ever want UND, I think there is a reasonable chance it would happen. Until then, I believe UND will stay in the Big Sky.
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1 minute ago, Siouxperfan7 said:
It is a pair of sweatpants.
The logo placement sure looks random. It looks like it ended up placed there after a game of pin the tail on the donkey.
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12 hours ago, jdub27 said:
I'm pretty sure those numbers are from the same font that SME designed for the wordmarks. I can't find the guidelines that showed the numbers but the 9's have the same little cut-in that the letters have. Maybe they look a little off to some because of being on the rounded helmet? Once the new jerseys are ordered, the fonts will match.
Stickers aren't that expensive. Couldn't they have have gone with the old font this year for the helmet stickers and waited to break out the new font until the jersey numbers matched? I guess I need to see the helmet with the jersey to see how noticeable it is. Now that somebody mentioned how the helmet numbers looked like Nascar numbers, that's all I can see when I look at it. I'm skeptical how that font will look for the numbers on the actual jersey.
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59 minutes ago, Tangolou said:
The helmets seem to be getting a much more positive reaction. Is this thread just full of the "lets move on" crowd or is the logo starting to gain some support? Where are the "logo sucks" guys? Oxbow??
I think you can have a positive review of the new helmets, and still dislike the overall logo. I dislike the new logo and really dislike the fact that they're retiring the interlocking ND. But on the narrow issue of how the helmets look, given the existing parameters, I think they did a good job. The white outline is a nice touch and I like the number on one side better than a backward facing or ND or trying to invert the Hawk on the ND.
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2 hours ago, gfhockey said:
The clubs in dt minny are better
That's cause you be throwin hundids...hundids.
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13 minutes ago, Cratter said:
The 80s, 90s, or 00s, when UND was happy to hope to beat Grand Valleys in a high school stadium in some place called Florence.
..kind of ironic.
That was fun too.
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On 7/5/2016 at 9:36 PM, Cratter said:
...or the best you can hope for is beating Jacksonville state in front of 20,000 in a place called Frisco.
I'll take that please. Where can we sign up?
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29 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:
Plus, they got to hear (and see) feedback from people who really, truly do care. (If you're ripping on it, you do care*.)
My guess is you'll see an outlined version where the N is cleaned up (to have an upper right feature) and the "D" has a center. My next guess is the hawk will be overlaid onto an outline of the State. (Note use of word "guess" twice; no inside knowledge here either.)
*Remember, the opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference.
You're basically saying they released a rough draft of the logo. I dare say that may be wishful thinking.
But I agree with your suggested changes and think they are common sense changes most reasonable people could get behind. But I doubt the changes will be that drastic. They'll probably just be an outline for certain color backgrounds and that will be it.
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13 hours ago, UND1983 said:Right. Logos and names that have been around for, well...ever.
UND chose a NEW nickname, if you would read what I wrote. The company isn't going to suggest to keep an old completely unrelated logo for a new nickname/marketing campaign.
How hard is this to understand?
I guess I must be pretty dense then. Most schools have a letter logo and a nickname logo. Repeat: most schools have two athletic logos, not one. Just because UND adopted a new nickname and was forced to drop its nickname logo does not mean it had to scrap its letter logo, variations of which it has been using for over 100 years. Even as beloved as the Sioux logos were, none of them were ever UND's sole athletic logo.
Even if the company recommended a single logo, the University didn't have to go along with it. This isn't a corporation rolling out a new marketing campaign, it's a University, where a lot of people care about quaint ideas like tradition and continuity. With all the changes in recent years, it would have been nice, even prudent, to have one symbol remain.
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14 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:
Regarding not using the interlocked ND in the future:
I seem to recall when the version used by North Dakota was updated, from this to this, there was great noise as well. I recall letters to the GF Herald editor calling for Faison's head.
My point? The interlocked has not been this great, unchanging constant that some claim. Nor have football helmets, as evidenced by this.
Sorry Sic I disagree with you again. Of course some people are going to be angry about anything. It's a matter of degree. I'm sure many more people are (or will be) upset about dropping the interlocking ND altogether than the number that were upset about the tweak that happened a few years ago.
Think of it this way, UND has a very rich history and the interlocking ND was the oldest imagery associated with the university as far as I can tell. You add that to the fact that the University's nickname and beloved Sioux logo were dropped just a few years ago, and the interlocking ND was the only image left tying UND to the past. Granted, the interlocking ND logo is the not the best logo in the world and is too often confused for Notre Dame, but it was all UND had left of its historical imagery in athletics. Given all the angst over this issue, did the administration really have to pour salt in the wound and take that away too? It strikes me as unnecessary and done only to force teams to incorporate the new logo.
The interlocking ND logo was not beloved like the Sioux logo. There were/are many detractors to the logo. But the bottom line is that if the new logo could not overtake the interlocking ND logo based on its own merit, it is not a good logo and not worthy of UND.
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6 hours ago, Teeder11 said:
I have said before that I did not like the Brien logo when it first came out because it was not a true logo. Ben originally made it as a work of art and not as a sports team logo. When UND adopted it as a sports logo, I was less than thrilled for many reasons. It was too intricate with too many colors to easily identify and replicate as a true sports logo on caps, t-shirts and uniforms -- way too busy. Another less important factor, was the symbolism of looking backward. Some would argue that this was a nod to history but it also conveys a sense of entrenchment and backward thinking instead of moving forward. It seams that most of Ben's attempts at logos now have this left-pointing orientation.
All that said, the logo grew on me over time as and I learned to love it and be proud of it because of the history and tradition attached to it and because it represented my alma mater.
But not everyone was enamored with from the get go.
There are exceptions to everything obviously, but I would submit you were in a very small minority. You simply can't compare the dislike if this new logo to any initial dislike to the Brien logo, and chalk it up to people not liking change, as Sic was trying to do. Not even remotely in the same ballpark.
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36 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:
Stand by. Blasphemy to follow:
Some folks didn't like the Brien logo and wanted to stay geometric. < gasp! >
Some folks didn't like the geometric and wanted to stay Blackhawk. < gasp!>
And on, and on, and on.
Change is hard.
You are oversimplifying in my opinion. I don't recall the logo history that way. Yes, people were very upset when the Blackhawk logo was dumped. But it was replaced by NORTH DAKOTA sweaters, not the geometric logo jersey. When the geometric logo jersey came out a couple years later, it was mildly accepted because it was better than the NORTH DAKOTA sweaters. I know of not one single person that was upset when the Brien logo was introduced. By all accounts, including the account that matters most (sales), it was a smashing success from the very beginning.
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5 hours ago, 77iceman said:"leave no option" . . . if the interlocked ND was still valid, would any team use the hawk logo? forces the hand. well played, UND . . . well played.
Well played indeed....if this was a contest between the administration and the fans. I guess that's what it has become.
While everyone is debating whether they like this new logo, nobody is paying any attention to the real story...which is that UND, suddenly and without warning, voluntarily retired a longstanding logo (by some accounts, in use at UND for over 100 years) that had no issue with the NCAA or this controversy, for no apparent reason other than to force this new logo down its fans' throats. This decision is much more troubling than which Hawk logo they decided to adopt. Whatever your personal opinion is about the interlocking ND logo, this decision is shady and should receive much more scrutiny.
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5 hours ago, GreenWing said:
Just think, Omaha has a Nuva ring for a logo and they embrace it!
Omaha is not the University of North Dakota.
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27 minutes ago, siouxfan512 said:
really sucks that they are phasing out the interlocking ND instead of just keeping it in addition to the new logo.
This is the surprising (and under-reported) part of the story today in my opinion. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but prior to today, I don't believe the University has ever indicated that the interlocking ND logo was in jeopardy of being retired. In fact, during the nickname transition, the administration seemed to go out of their way to say the interlocking ND logo would remain intact. And I'm not a fan of how they buried that nugget in the middle of a printed Q&A while everyone is focused on whether they like the new logo or not. Typical PR B.S.
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28 minutes ago, UNDvince97-01 said:
Oh.....your "bad" then....
Yep, there's always a danger in posting your thoughts instantly.... My bad.
I hated to see the Sioux nickname go, but at least I understood the reasons behind why it was necessary. Retiring the interlocking ND logo seems unnecessary to me. I realize it was often confused with Notre Dame's interlocking ND logo, but I'm not sure that was the reason. It kind of seems like the administration's attempt to strong-arm teams into using the new logo. Some might say having only one logo is the smart move from a Marketing 101 standpoint, but many high profile universities have a letter logo and a nickname logo for their athletic departments (Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, etc.) Given how emotional and contentious this whole thing has been at UND, it comes across as pouring salt in the wound.
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Just now, UNDvince97-01 said:
I'm actually probably with you on the decision to retire the ND logo that football used - dont think it was necessary. I was also with you on the Sioux nickname and logo.
But Bubba didn't retire either of them and the situation is what it is. How do you handle the adversity moving forward. Again, there's 2 ways to do it.
The quote was: "Bubba is embracing it. You gonna tell him he is wrong?"
You said "Yes, I'd tell him he's wrong in a respectful way."
That's not negative towards Bubba and his decision-making?
My comment was made before I knew the University retired the interlocking ND logo. When I made that comment, I thought Bubba was choosing this new logo over the interlocking ND logo.
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1 minute ago, UNDvince97-01 said:
Bubba's not doing it prominently either for football. He's simply replacing the ND logo that was taken away from him with the current ND logo. It wont be displayed prominently on the jerseys any time soon and will remain "North Dakota" there too.
So how would that be any different from hockey?The logo on a football helmet is the primary identifier for a football uniform.
Again, I'm not saying anything negative about Bubba. The administration decided to retire the logo the football team has used on its helmet the past 47 years and he's making the best of it. My issue is with the decision to retire the interlocking ND logo.
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Just now, UNDvince97-01 said:Because whether you, or I, or anyone else like the logo and nickname or not doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things.
Is the name Sioux name and logo way better?....no question.
But we are who we are - The University of North Dakota.
No name or logo (good, bad, or indifferent) will change what UND means to me and has meant to me throughout my entire life.
So, why did Bubba do it now? Because he is a LEADER and he wants to try be as positive as he can be with moving on from this disaster that has been.
You can do it one of two ways - Bubba has chosen to do it this way, like always.
Our other Bubba is in a unique situation to be part of a positive solution as well and move forward.
Ok, I think most reasonable people agree that in the grand scheme of things, a logo isn't a huge deal. That doesn't mean people shouldn't have an opinion on it.
I suspect the decision to retire the interlocking ND logo was not made by Bubba, but from the administration. If that's the case, I have no problem with him making the best of it and embracing it. I disagree with the decision to retire the interlocking ND logo.
As for Coach Berry, I don't think he'll be any less of a leader if he chooses to keep NORTH DAKOTA as the primary identifier on the hockey jersey. Maybe put this new logo on the shoulders and call it good. He doesn't have to publicly bash the new logo, but I don't think he needs to prominently display it on the jerseys to demonstrate leadership qualities. After all, a logo doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things, right?
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11 minutes ago, UNDvince97-01 said:
What I meant was, the football program never embraced the Sioux logo to the point of prominently displaying it on their uniforms. I'm sure many players embraced the logo. I didn't mean to imply otherwise.
I can think of only two uniform iterations where the Sioux logo appeared anywhere on the football uniform. In the 1980s, the blackhawk logo briefly appeared on the sleeve for a season or two. And in the early 2000s, there was a tiny patch under the neck collar. Someone can correct me if I'm forgetting something. My point was that if the football program didn't embrace a nickname logo as great as the Sioux logos were, why would they start now with this one?
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8 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:
It'll look fine.
Just win with whatever damn thing is on the helmet. At least the colors will/should match ...
Some people find interest in uniforms and logos, some people don't.
Just now, southpaw said:I wonder if Siouxsports.com was this outraged when the football team went from numbers on the helmets to the interlocking ND and completely ruined tradition.
Not all change is equal. And you can call all this trivial and that's fine, but it means something to a lot of people. When a University is dropping its 80 year old nickname, it could have held on to at least one marking from the past. Instead, UND chose to cut ties entirely with its past.
I was not a huge fan of the interlocking ND logo, but I don't think they should have retired it. It was a bridge to the past for those who care about those kind of things. Now it's this thing or nothing. Teams have no escape from the new branding anymore, which I suppose is exactly what the administration wanted.
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18 minutes ago, southpaw said:The football team had the ND on their helmets. They'll continue to do that.
No. Per Bubba, they will have this new atrocity on their helmets this coming season. I guess technically there is an N and D somewhere in that logo (arguably), but you can't dispute that this is a remarkable departure for the football team, which has used pretty much the same logo on its helmet since 1969. And before that, they just had numbers on the helmets. The football team has never incorporated the nickname logo on to its helmet. It's disappointing that they will use this new logo to do so.
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7 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:
Bubba always gives the most heartfelt, honest, straightforward speeches. We are so fortunate to have him.
And he says he is embracing the new logo. Someone on here want to tell him he is wrong?
Sure. I'd tell him that. Respectfully, of course. The football team never embraced the University's logo in the past and there was no need to do it now.
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it is VERY disappointing this thing will be on the football helmets. The Sioux logo was never on the football helmet. There was no need for the football team to make that kind of drastic change.
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UND and the Big Sky could go FBS
in NCAA News
Posted
I found her quote interesting for the same reason. This is the first shift, albeit subtle, I've seen publicly from the MVFC about expansion since USD joined.