specifics
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I dont think we should compare red river vs south and red river vs north as one game was 9-0 and other 4-3 in overtime. I wouldnt say red river outworked south being out shot by 7 or 8. They won the game and deserved it but I dont think south was embarrassed by that one loss.
Never did I compare a 9-0 thumping to a 4-3 thriller. Both games gave Red River more momentum. No one ever said they embarrassed South. Settle down.
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It looks as though I was wrong. Red River may be the favorite to win the State title again this year. After two impressive scores (although the 9-0 win over North was to be expected) I think they carry all momentum heading into the EDC tournement. From the sound of it Red River simply out worked both South and North. A bad week for Fargo hockey to say the least. I doubt Central is looking forward to stepping in front of a RED-hot Red River.
The top scorers in the EDC are coming from... (point per game or better)
South-7
Red River-2
Grafton-5
North-1
Wahpeton-2
West Fargo-3
On a slightly different note, congratulations to Moorhead's Jordy Christian. He recently verbally commited to play hockey for St. Cloud State.
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In some cases, numbers do not provide proof of who is good or not, but in this case it does. Four players who are called by some to be some of the top players in the state should be leading their team to victories. Its not like they're all playing on seperate lines with a bunch of kids who cant skate. I don't know North's exact line combinations, but if two out of three kids on the line are either Klein, Klenow, Bombenger, or Fischer, then they should be producing something that resembles an offense, which they clearly have not. I'm sure these kids are talented players (not great, great players make people around them better) and I did nothing to question their character. My guess is that 95% of the people who post on this board played sports in high school, which would then constitue playing in front of a crowd. My point is this- these players have done nothing to show me that they are top level players in the state of North Dakota. Top level players lead their teams to victories against teams that aren't terrible. Winning games includes one key element- scoring goals. To show my point (and using ND Pride's method) I went through and looked at everyone's goals scored statistic, throwing out the highest single game total. And you know what I found? North is tied for fewest goals in the state in non-Wahpeton games (19). I'm not calling them bad players, I'm just showing you the reason why I think that these players are nothing special and should not be talked about as being tops in the state.
And as for the question of them making the tournament and select teams every year I ask this - If they are so good to be making these teams every year, why is North 4-10 and they are producing very little?
PS- And just for fun, why dont you (ND Pride) start putting YOUR name at the end of posts, to show everyone where you're coming from.
Soohockey15, it's obvious you are a high school hockey player and you find it easy to criticize two of the best players in the state. Please, inform us of your accomplishments that make it so convenient for you to bash them. I happen to know from the state scoring leader stats last year that unless your name is Marc Mihulka, you did not outscore Klein or Klenow. I don't see how any one with an unbiased opinion can say that these two have done nothing to constitute being "tops in the state". Year after year Klein and Klenow make the ND select team and are in the top four for players on that team. If those select teams are in fact composed of the best players in the state (they generally are) and Klein and Klenow are consistently selected as one of the best on the team to represent North Dakota at the National Festivals, how can you not recognize them as some of the best? If your only measurement for success for these players is points, you have a lot to learn about the sport. You can be a great hockey player without leading the league in points. No one can deny that these kids are players, that make a difference in any game they are in. In any case, I don't think a bunch of negative statements from some unknown from Grand Forks is going to discourage either of these players.
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It is far too early to say, but the following from the East deserve consideration:
Goalies---Rosendahl, GFRR; Deichert, Fargo South; Welk, Fargo North; Kringstad, Grafton. Rosendahl's numbers are the best, followed by Deichert, but they also play on the most talented teams with the best defense.
Defense---Galt, South; A. Peterson, Grafton; Harrie, Shanley; Swanson, West Fargo; Galbreath, GFRR; Delisle, GFRR. Galt is in a class by himself, but Andy Peterson is very good on a team where they are a little thin on defense. No one means more to their team than Marc Harrie and he leads the team in scoring. Swanson may be West Fargo's best player. RR and South have very solid defense and a few more could be added (Wurden, LaDoucer).
Forwards--Weisgarber, South; Paul Campbell, GPR; Mihulka, GFRR; Thomas Campbell, GPR; Ian Powers, South; Grant Larson, South; Adam Campbell, South; David Spies, GFRR; Klenow, North.
I may have missed some, but those are the players that have stood out so far.
You are right on, Rosendahl is playing great with a great team. Norths goalie, Welk, his numbers speak for themselves, with goals against just under 5. No way he should be on the list though.
With Weisgarber, South; Paul Campbell, GPR; Thomas Campbell, GPR; you could have one hell of a line. Klenow's, North; numbers were good last year and showed great potential, but not being a team player is why he shouldn't be on this list.
Coach of the year is a toss up, I am leaning towards Wilson, South; personally.
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As the season progresses and gets closer to postseason, one thing that can change the outlook is injuries. Since The Forum only prints out daily injury reports for Moorhead, does any team have a major injury that might change things. I heard that Doeden from South got hurt and is out for awhile, might miss red river game.
I can't say I know of any injuries for either team. I do know that if Red River wants to win this game they have to get their rebounds. Go to the net hard after every shot and the odds they win this game increases greatly. Even though South is superb on the PK, they need to stay out of the box. Likewise for Red River, South is too good 5 on 4. If Red River lets South play a man up it will kill any momentum Red River has. Does Red River still put Mihulka in the slot for a one timer on the PP? If so, South is going to have to pick up on that fast or they might find themselves down a goal early. I'm going to give South the edge on this one. 3-1.
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The calculation of stats for big games was purely an exercise designed to provide some insight into the performance of the goalies. To make conclusions you need a lot of information and the "big" game stat was simply an exercise. As I said, if you combine stats for 4 to 6 "big" games then that can help in making conclusions as well - as long as some meaningful differences emerge.
You could run a similar analysis for players, as you suggest, but you would need a stack of game sheets to do that - or all of the newspaper box scores and that would be a lot of work.
I have no vested interest in who is the best goalie in the state - I don't really care - it is interesting, however, to make sure each player gets a fair review. Sometimes stats can help with that, and other times the do not help as the differences are not meaningful enough. Honestly, from what I have seen in terms of stats and seeing Deichert and Rosendahl play many times this season and Hilllman once - I can't see how one can be singled out at this time. They are all good. Wait until the pressure of the region tournaments develops and ultimately state - it will take that long to really determine who is the best.
One final note on Hillman - I think there is a good comparison to Deichert and Rosendahl. Hillman has a 92% save percentage on a team that is not that strong. I think it is up for honest debate that he might be the best goalie in the state and would have stats as good as the other two if he were on teams with that quality. It is still too early to tell - but interesting to discuss with an open mind.
Goalie stats, forward stats, defenseman stats, etc. are only an arrow in the direction of how someone plays. It's the team that gets players 70 points or a goalie a 1.87 GAA. Nothing against any of those goalies that are on top ranked teams but, put them on Wahpeton's roster or Devil's Lake even. I doubt we would be singing such praises for them if they werent on a top 2-3 team. Obviously these are extreme case examples. Let's say Tom Campell plays for North. Great player, but I doubt he hits 25 point this early in the season with that team. At this point in time I can't say I've seen or heard of Diechert or Rosendahl winning a game for their team that they should not have. Maybe I'm wrong. But Hillman has kept his team in games that Bismarck should never have been in.
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Your entire post contradicted itself. You tell people to quit putting their hometown teams first and have an unbiased opinion, then you go and put four Grafton players on the list. Kringstad isn't one of the top three goalies in the state, let alone the best.
My mistake. I forgot about Michael Hillman from Bismarck. He stood on his head against South and from what I've heard he's done that a few times this season. Soohockey15 I'm not from Grafton. The only mistake on that list was Kringstad. You can't honestly believe that either of the Campells are not good enough to be on that list. Peterson does not get enough credit as it is. He is one of the elite defenders in the state and there is no denying that. Someone has to be from Grafton to think 3 of the best players in the state can come from there and not Grand Forks? Come on.
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You are obviously blind to the fact that this team is kind of a joke. Nick Klenow, Brian Lee, and Jay Erickson? He's obviously joking putting those names on the list. And about the maroon-shaded glasses? Um, nowhere on that list is a player from Grand Forks Central.
My guess for the all-state team will be Weisgarber and Galt in place of Lee and Klenow.
In all do respect how do you leave Thomas Campell off of this list? Or defenseman Andy Peterson also from Grafton. It's about time everyone from their respective cities quit these games of putting their cities star in the limelight on a high school message board when it's doubtful they deserve it. An unbiased opinion? Alright here...
G- Tony Kringstad
D- Andy Peterson
D- Erick Galt
F-Paul Weisgarber
F-T. Campell
F-P. Campell
Coach- Ross Richards
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In all fairness, I don't think they do. I mean, it's hard to say "Look at us! We're really stocked with prize recruits" after losing Esposito, Crosby, and Toews the past few years.
Shanley did not play Shattuck's number one squad. That squad is known as the Prep Team, and may not be as strong as they have been in recent years but still have a small handful of division one recruits.
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I don't see either name on last year's NHL draft list or on the Central Scouting List for this year's draft.
Yeah, I didn't see their names on the roster for the Olympics in Turin either...
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Neither name is on the NAHL draft list either.
Unlike USHL teams, NAHL teams rarely draft players that are still in high school. That would be the reason why they were not drafted last year. Odds are they will be drafted this year unless they sign a tender before the draft to secure their rights to the team of their choice. The NAHL is a league of older more mature players. The USHL is full of younger, sometimes smaller less developed (age, not skill) players. The USHL wants you to believe that it is the premier Jr. A league in the nation but time will tell how true that is.**
**Kai Kantola who was cut from the Chicago Steel of the USHL was the only NAHL player selected to play in the Viking Cup. Was Kai not good enough to play for the Steel, or was it politics. Knowing that Kai is actually projected to go in the first or second round of the NHL draft I'm going to have to go with politics. Kai plays for the Jets and is a real treat to watch.
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I agree with south , red river and grafton as the top 3- minot could sneak in there. Mr. hockey has to remain a question mark until the end of the season with weisgarber, mihulka and the campbells heading the list up with other possible choices like galt or klenow. Rosendahl and kringsted would probably be the only goalies to get any consideration where Hillman is only a junior. Teams like North,Central,West Fargo, Devils Lake and Bismarck seem to be of the same caliber
I'm sure this has something to do with the number of games played but as of now Shanley is rated ahead of North (Shanley lost to North) and North is rated ahead of Central (North lost to Central). Whatever the case it seems as though the 4th through 7th spots are a toss up right now. It's going to be a much easier road once you get into the EDC tournement if you are 4 or 5, so that will be crucial in getting a spot into the state tourney. I haven't heard as much as I usually do about Galt, is he in Weisgarbers shadow right now or what? If anything he should be standing at Weisgarbers side because in my mind its not just Souths offense thats keeping them at number one.
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I would have to say Milhulka is the best overall player in the state. He is down in point totals but he starts the plays on a lot of RR's goals. He doesnt have another outstanding player on his line like the Cambells and Weisgarber do. He does a lot of the dirty work and is all guts no(some) glory. After seeing the Stop-o-Razi I cant think of a better candidate.
Junior24 I can certainly agree with on some that. Mihulka does a lot of the work that goes unnoticed. He is a real grinder and his ability to go out and play with recklass abandon makes him a prize for any team he plays on. Fair or not, Weisgarber and the Campbell's are going to look better than Mihulka simply because they have another great player to compliment their play. Maybe Marc deserves Mr. Hockey, but it's going to be tough for him to win with Weisgarber and the Cambpell's producing the points that they are. If it's any consolation to Marc, it's not the points that get you to the next level. It's the little things, that he does very well, like backchecking, finishing your check, winning battles alone the boards, chipping the puck out of the zone, and dumping the puck cross corner. If I could say one thing to Marc Mihulka right now it would be, Keep up the good work.
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Reading all of these posts about high school hockey is a joke. None of you have a clue who the players around the state are and yet you state who you think is the best, who will win Mr. Hockey, who the best coach is. Grand Forks has been the dominant hockey team for the last 30 years and will always be in the top three for years to come. I have no problem admitting this being from Fargo. Stop wasting everyones time with bull$%!# posts.
No one in here has a clue who is going to be Mr. Hockey? If I said it was going to be Paul Weisgarber, Paul Campell, or Erick Galt would I still not have a clue? Who are you trying to kid RCB41? Doesn't Centrals JV team have a team meal you should be getting back to?
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Yea, hopefully they can carry me tonight i'm kind of sick.
Don't worry X2theZ I feel a real breakthrough game tonight
. It's not even worth trying to have a logical conversation with hockeyman25 as he has hardly matured enough mentally to carry on a conversation without acting like a 12 year old (which he may very well be). So I'm gonna lay it on the line for everyone else...Grand Forks been dominating High School hockey since the first day they touched the ice.
The number and consistency of state championships won has STARTED to diminish in the Grand Forks area.
Hockey programs in Fargo have become increasingly stronger than in the past.
Given a little extra LUCK (yeah, luck) Fargo school's could have won state titles in 99, 01, 04, 05.
Fargo is narrowing the gap there once was between Fargo and Grand Forks.
Fargo South is currently undefeated.
Grand Forks has a great hockey community.
Fargo is catching up to them.
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I cant wait until South goes down in that state tourney, all of you Fargo people will be crying, "I thought that was the year for us."
Thanks for making my point for me HockeyMan25.
But your response would consist of nothing relevent to the conversation and would only give to the chance to continue in your elementary school rant of how "you Fargo people can cry all you want."
your reply...
all of you Fargo people will be crying, "I thought that was the year for us."
Maybe I had you all wrong. Your intelligence level may be higher than I had once perceived
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I am sick and tired of you stupid Fargo people always saying that Fargo is better than GF teams. You people just need to realize that GF teams dominate at all levels. Red River and Central arent going anywhere. They both have solid sophmore classes. Last year in the Bantam Tournament GF won and the other GF team took 3rd, if they were in different brackets they probably would have matched up in the championship, and the team that took 3rd(Sugarkings) had two of there best players playing HS hockey, Alex Simonson and Jarrett Galbreath. You Fargo people can cry all you want about how you think GF refs cheat for Central and Red River, and all this other BS. Yeah, South is having a good year but all that matters is who plays there best in late Febuary.
You know I'd really like to type up a nice factual retort to your immature bashing of the entire city of Fargo. But your response would consist of nothing relevent to the conversation and would only give to the chance to continue in your elementary school rant of how "you Fargo people can cry all you want."
We'll see where the banner goes in about 14 games.
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Or what past history indicates....
We've been through this before. Success in the past does not by any means gaurentee it in the future.
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You guys are up on your local high school hockey, I am not, and this is a ND HS hockey thread but what are your thoughts on the Warroad boys team vs the US Olympic women's team tonight up in Warroad?
I'm going to need more information on how the game will be played... Will it be a full checking contest, or limited? If so the Warroad boys are probably stronger and faster and I think it might be difficult for the US women to compete with that kind of play. If it is a no-check game the woman would have an advantage but I still find it unlikely that they would come out on top.
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Ok specifics, im just wondering what it is that you make you opinons on, i mean what has Klein done to make you believe any of that? If my sources are correct Klein finished about fifth or sixth on the Elite 2 team points wise. And i believe that team took second in the final tournament, so there he was playing with good players and still finished behind four other kids who mostly play on the second lines for their teams. If Klein played for a Grafton or a South, ya he would probably produce a little and get maybe twenty to thirty points but beat out the Campbells or Weisgarber? come on
I can assure you every statement I make about a specific player on this site I'll back it with some valuable information and I apologize for not stating it. Last season Tyler Klein had 22 goals and 8 assists for 30 points. That put him at 25th in the state for scoring. Fourteen of the players above him have moved on from high school hockey. There is one returning player in the state that scored more goals than Klein, that being Paul Campell with 24. Don't get me wrong, hockey is not all about goals and points. As a matter of fact goals and points should be the last thing you look at when determining how well someone is performing. Slow starts are not uncommon for players and there are so many other variables that play into how many points a player has at any given time you cannot judge a player solely on that. I have seen players play the best games of there lives and walk away pointless. On the other hand I've seen players play sloppy and sluggish and leave the game with 3 or 4 points. What I am getting at is, don't base your opinions on a player because of where he stands in the point totals. A hockey player by definition does more than score goals, so don't judge him on that. Maybe we could get his faceoff percentage, blocked shots, or takeouts on here? On Klein playing with Klenow and Fischer, I'm not going to disagree with the fact that they and he should probably be producing more. But you have to go out and play the game ever night and some times your not going to just get points because your line is the most talented. Thats just how it works, I guess it still amazes me sometimes too. The lack of production out of those three this year is something very rare, and I doubt that lack of production will last much longer.
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Are you tryin to kid someone? Klein being the most talented player in the state? Perhaps there is a different Tyler Klein that the rest of use are missing?
It's all about opinions. I can have that correct. Anyways I'm not going to get caught up in this, but in two or three years I'd be willing to bet if you go and look for high school players that have moved on to Jr. A or the college level you'll find Tyler Kleins name.
Great players rise to the top no matter what team or line they are? I think we can all agree that Mark Messier is a great player? In his first few season's playing pro (WHL) his numbers were hardly impressive. Then even when he moved up to the Edmonton Oilers early in his first season he was sent back down to the minors. Even the best players go over some rough water. You cannot play to your full potential without players around you that will help compliment your play.
In any case, I think there are some USHL scouts that will back me if I could just get them to post.
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Im guessing everything but Paul Campbell is a joke.
G: Sean Deichert/ Michael Hillman
D: Eric Galt
D: Andrew Peterson
F: Thomas Campbell
F: Paul Campbell
F: Paul Weisgarber
Mr. Hockey: One of the Pauls
Coach of the Year: Mark Pivetz
It's a little early to say who will be all state/ won't be all state, will be Mr. Hockey, won't be Mr. Hockey. For example, the most talented player in the state (Tyler Klein), hardly gets any recognition because of the fact that he plays for Fargo North, a struggeling (to say the least) team. Say what you want but if you put him on a Grafton or Fargo South and he would be leading the state in scoring no question. In my humble opinion the favorite to win Mr. Hockey has to be Paul Weisgarber. Not only because he is a model hockey player on the ice, but also off the ice. Paul has the skill, the grades, and the respect of every coach in the state.
On the Klenow winning Mr. Hockey, come on. I don't think its reasonable to believe he has a legitimate shot at winning Mr. Hockey. He's going to have a difficult time making all conference (Not that he doesn't deserve it but he's in the shadow of up and coming Jr. Tyler Klein, and with North low in the conference they will probably only get one All Conference pick which will go to Klein.) However, Coach Erickson may have a shot at the coach of the year honor depending on how his teams turns twords the second half of the season.
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This is kind of a funny argument we are having. I mean we go ahead and bash western North Dakota and its relatively young hockey programs and relatively small numbers participation wise, then go into an all out defensive strategy with the same arguments that some don't see as acceptable for the west region schools when a Minnesotan bashes our high school hockey.....
1. Low participation
2. Younger programs
3. Popularity of sport
I for one believe that North Dakota hockey is behind Minnesota hockey, but I'll retract my earlier statement and say that the best teams in North Dakota can play AND BEAT the best teams in Minnesota.
PS: I'm not sure who argued my point earlier about Minnesota schools not recruiting, but if you really don't believe that they do I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
I said it was not legal for Minnesota teams to recruit. Now good hockey schools such as Bloomington hardly need to "recruit", this is because talented players will move into the system simply because of the hockey program. This does not mean recruiting is non-existent. As I previously stated ex-Bloomington coach Thomas Saterdahlen had problems with a Holy Angels coach because he believed he was recruting and stealing some of Saterdahlens players. In any case the issue of recruiting is hardly relevent to the argument because most all recruits would be from one MN team to another MN team. So the talent would still be in MN but just accumulating at one hockey program. Make any sense?
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So this is basically the same argument that certain east region North Dakota hockey fans make over and over again about the west region. WE KNOW!!!! The Vikings wear purple, the Packers are from Green Bay, and it snows in Minnesota in the winter time. WE KNOW THIS!!!!!
I bet it would be a lot more even if Minnesota schools weren't allowed to recruit kids for hockey programs.
The purpose of that comment was what? I have met some very talented hockey players from Minnesota who are also very nice people, and the conclusion that I've come is that it's the not so talented players/families that boast how much better their state is than North Dakota. It would also be wise of you to clarify what you mean by "North Dakota hockey", although I'm a Gopher fan myself, last time I checked UND boasts a fairly good program, no? Sure, Minnesota hockey is great. Your right though, North Dakota hockey is terrible compared to MN. Your case is clearly supported by the 4-4 score of the Fargo South vs. Moorhead (ranked #4 in MN) game.
Minnesota schools are not allowed to recruit players for their hockey programs. That doesn't mean that in some form it doesn't go on. In fact ex-Bloomington Jefferson coach Tom Saterdahlen (sp?) had some issues with a Academy of Holy Angels coach because he believed he was recruiting.
2005-06 ND Highschool Hockey
in Non-collegiate sports
Posted
I don't know very much about Dean Wilson but there are a few things I do know. The grief coach Wilson took for Souths thrashing of Wahpeton early in the year probably played a part in his actions against Jamestown. In Tuesdays game against Jamestown Souths first line played one shift in the third period. South hardly put any pressure on Jamestown in the 3rd and I'm going to assume that was intentional. South scored a total of zero goals in the third period. Good defense? Maybe. Mercy? More likely.