streakygopher
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Posts posted by streakygopher
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I fail to see the relevance of how many points you score and against who, in considering the Hobey, as far a a popularity contest that statement just sounded stupid. I also agree that Panzer was a great college hockey player.
Well, if you fail to see the relevance then you must have the answer to my original query...how is the Hobey Baker candidate selected? Surely, points scored or GAA (in the case of a goaltender) has something to do with it...that, or it's an astonishing coincidence that only the top college hockey point producers are also the "most popular" hockey players!
And, wouldn't it follow that if performance does factor in that the competition against whom one performs must also count for something? If a player in the CHA, for example, had as many points as a player in the WCHA, all other factors notwithstanding, wouldn't it just seem to make more sense to give the trophy to the guy from Minnesota or North Dakota than the dude from (gasp) Wayne State? Come on, don't keep me guessing...instead of criticizing me for laying down preposterous theories and accusing me of sounding stupid why not just fill me in on how the system works...or do you need time to Google that?
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This is a bad attitude I have, but look:
If Jeff Panzer couldn't win the Hobey, then the only way we'll have another Sioux hobey winner is if someone puts up as good or better numbers than Tony Hrkac.
So, as much as I love Oshie and crew, the answer is: None of the above that are listed will win the Hobey.
I'd like to know what goes into the voting. The year Leopold won it, he obviously deserved it, but it was curious that Pohl led the country that year in points and didn't make the final cut?? The other point is that players who get their points playing in a league like the WCHA are perhaps better than those who collect theirs' in the ECAC or the CHA. Then again, if you want to nit pick, if you compared Oshie's non-conference points to his WCHA points how would he look? Maybe the whole thing is just a popularity contest...who actually does the voting?
Who won the Hobey in Panzer's senior year? Panzer was a great college hockey player.
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Please let this thread die,please
I second that motion. I also suggest that some of you sprint to your dictionary or thesaurus to first look up the definition of "class" and second, arm yourselves with a few synonyms or different words altogether...If the word "class" were a racehorse it would be whip-scarred and foaming, on its way to the glue factory.
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Is it as classless as an entire section of Gopher fans throwing crap on the ice after the Sioux scored the ENG in the Sat game?
That was neat.
Spitting on a player and throwing things on the ice are both indefensible...purchasing a ticket entitles one to neither. What civilized person could argue otherwise? Or is this another contest to find out which fan base is worse?
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That may be the biggest problem. The Sioux are very talented, but also very young. The Gophers under Woog used to recruit a lot of high school aged kids (blue chippers) that struggled against older teams. It's a real fine line. On the one hand, a program wants to get the top talent, regardless of age. Most of those blue chippers want to go to college without playing juniors, so they commit early (Jordy Christian is one of a long line). On the other hand, that young talent is going to have difficulty matching up against kids who have had a year or two in the USHL or the Canadian junior leagues. The answer may be that you need a mix. You need some older, veteran players who have more physical and mental maturity. The Sioux have very few. Prpich and Marvin and Porter are about it. Even some of the junior leaders are very young---Smaby and Stafford were only 20 to start the year. The other problem is that many of the blue chip players leave early. Lucia-pet has tried to balance that by also recruiting some older kids from the USHL. Grant Potulny was a good example. Even Ryan Potulny and Danny Irmen, although they are young, did spend 2 years in the USHL.
I don't think that the problem is coaching. It is more a function of inconsistency and leadership due to the youth of this team. It should, however, serve as a wake-up call when a not very talented St. Cloud team not only beats you, but sweeps you at home. I cannot ever recall St. Cloud sweeping in Grand Forks, and this is one of the least talented St. Cloud teams that I have ever seen. Give them credit--they work extremely hard, play patient defensive hockey, and have excellent goaltending. However, getting swept at home by St. Cloud is just inexcusable. The coaches may have to reevaluate recruiting to make sure that there are Adam Calder type players. Mark Fabian is in that mold, but he's one of the few.
This is an excellent point. Young teams in the WCHA have a hard time winning, no matter what the talent level. As a gopher fan, I watched years and years of teams loaded with talent that came up short. Now, both UND and Minnesota have some unworldly young talent and those guys can play at this level. But it helps to have elder leadership down the stretch. UND, Minnesota and Denver all had it in the recent title runs.
Losing to SCSU is no disgrace...they're a pretty good team who is playing "up" right now. If you guys can just get to your own regional, there isn't a team in the country who'll look forward to playing you there, no matter what your ranking or record.
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Of course you can't keep 'em all. Ain't enough beer joints in town that will serve all of your young recruits while on their official visits. See you around The John.
Well, that's not it...We do our best to ferret out the counterfeiters and such before they ever hit campus!
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I am glad it cracked you up Streaky, because it was meant to be in veiled jest. This said, there is a huge difference between Philly's decision, complete with a press conference to announce that he preferred the Gophers "style of play" over the Badgers who had, for good reason, heavily recruited him, and other D-1 prospects, including those from Minnesota, who decide to play where they have the best opportunities for success, including at North Dakota. The state of Wisconsin has produced very few D-1 players to date. That will change. Obviously, they would have preferred getting Phil. Most, but certainly not all, Sioux players from Minnesota either did not play in the Cities, or were not heavily preferred by Da Don or Da Doug. Therein lies the distinction. Of course, Parise did not turn his back on his home town because he never lived in Minneapolis, the locale of the U of M. When Roseau, Moorhead, or Warroad get D-1 programs, maybe then I will feel differently. Of course, the Potulnys and Vermin did turn their backs on their hometowns, and I do not think highly of them either.
This all said, I did have the distinct pleasure of watching Robbie Earl, Joe Pavelski, and other Badgers tell Philly that he had made a huge mistake in judgment while he was forced to shake their hands after the recent trouncing at The John. I suspect that if the Gophers do not make it to Milwaukee, and if the Badgers do, you will not find Philly anywhere close to the town, or to the arena.
Why would it give you pleasure to see Earl and Pavelski shake hands with "Philly?" Fans always make a much bigger deal over things like this than the players do. I doubt many of the Gopher players felt this way about Parise when he missed out on a National title. Phil Kessel made a decision that he felt was right for him, as did Ryan Potulny and Danny Irmen, much in the same way that Parise did several years ago when he picked UND over Minnesota. That's the way it goes in college recruiting. Players don't "turn their backs on their home town." This garbage is made up by disgruntled fans that don't have enough going on in their lives. This happens in Minnesota all the time from Warroad to Red Wing. We can't keep them all. And if Kessel doesn't make it to Milwaukee, he'll be as disappointed as any other Gopher player for not being there...no more, no less...being from Wisconsin has nothing at all to do with it.
Just let it go....
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In my opinion, the Sioux have at least a handful of skaters who are every bit as capable as Philly. Maybe the fact that he turned his back on his hometown has something to do with my attitude.
I'm not trying to start anything at all, certainly not a Gophers vs. Sioux discussion or Toews v. Kessel, but this line truly cracked me up. I mean, seriously, taking umbrage with Kessel's decision to "turn his back on his hometown" sets a dangerous precedent for those in Grand Forks, doesn't it? Don't most (ahem, nearly all) of your players come from out of state? How do you reconcile your giddy feelings about them? After all, they too "turned their backs" on their home towns. Oh, faulty logic!
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All i have to say is that we didn't beat a very good Gopher team like hennesy said they looked really sloppy in the nuetral zone and seemed suprised at the start of the game.
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Agreed that MN didn't look very good last night, but give them some credit...they are a good team (they made the FF for cryin' out loud)...just a team that didn't match the Sioux's energy level last night--much in the same way CC couldn't match Denver's earlier in the day...both Denver and UND earned their victories.
Congrats on a storybook season. Your toughest test is tomorrow night...that Denver team has looked unbeatable...your classic unstoppable force against an immoveable object. It has the makings of a classic.
We'll see ya next year!
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Does anyone here truly believe the Sioux have a decided advantage over Minnesota...or vice versa? Last weekend is history folks. It doesn't matter that Minnesota scored only 3 goals or that UND cruised to two unlikely wins...that has no bearing on Columbus. Geez, during the regular season how many times does your squad dismantle a team on Friday only to struggle on Saturday? It happens all the time...you have to bring it every night...take one shift off and you may be sent packing.
Any of the four remaining teams, with a little luck and goaltending, can beat the others. In fact, 4 weeks ago nobody would have given the Sioux or Minnesota much of a chance to get to the frozen four...now, it looks like anything is possible. That said, CC and Denver still have more talent (or at least experience) than MN and UND. That bracket is the odds on favorite to win it all...but that's why they play the game.
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Just wanted to stop in and congratulate your team on their FF berth...as for the who's better discussion, that will be settled in two weeks. What happened this past weekend is over. There's two weeks of practices, coaching, and healing to be done. Both teams will be ready. Personally, I expect a close game...why would anybody think otherwise??
I will say this, however, the goaltending at the U this weekend was as good as I have ever seen. Holding Minnesota to 3 goals in two games on the big sheet is an accomplishment for any team.
I'm not into predictions, but it's looking like it might finally be CC's year. They came back from a 3-0 deficit against a solid Michigan squad in Michigan. Both Colorado squads are better than UND or MN. One of us will need a little luck to beat them...good thing it's a one-game take all.
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Well, gosh, after reading all of this we might as well throw him back! Say what you want about Kessel not being a defensive player, Kessel isn't physical enough, etc....but don't forget, the kid is only 17 years old!
I saw the USA team play against MN at Mariucci a few weeks ago. Kessel (and the rest of the team) is very physical, and he's tough to hit anyway. He was the best player on the ice and made some pretty speedy defensemen--college defensemen, mind you--look just plain silly at times.
Along with Kessel, Stoa and Mueller really stood out. Minnesota's future looks bright, but in the WCHA you have to come to play every night...and winning a NCAA title is even harder. No guarantees, but I like our chances.
Kessel will be a dominant college hockey player next year. He has been playing world class hockey for the past 6 months+, and he has dominated at EVERY LEVEL...not to mention he is a consensus Number 1 pick in the NHL draft and has been compared to the likes of Modano and Roenick. Whoever compares him to Spehar just doesn't understand hockey. The two are worlds apart.
I'm just glad I get to see him play (I said the same of Parise). If he would have selected another league, we all would have been robbed of that.
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You sound like an ugly troll when you are trying to slam UND based on a Huskies fan making the comment.
Oh, my gosh, you're right. I just indicted the whole Sioux nation by one thoughtless comment! A little thicker skin please...maybe you could rent a sense a humor, since clearly you don't own one.
It may take me awhile to get over being called a troll....
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The tradition started by UND is used all over the midwest. ...did you guys invent the internet too?
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...let's then base the post-season on overall standings. I'll use as an example of two years ago, the 2002 Denver Pioneers, who won the WCHA regular season title and then won the Broadmoor Trophy in St Paul by defeating the Gophers, again, in front of 16,000-17,000 pro-Minnesota fans. Their reward? A death-sentence regional game in Ann Arbor against Michigan. Nice.
Make the regular season meaningful again! I'm not being anti-Gopher here, but it's absurd that the #5 team in the conference regular season was allowed to be a #1 seed for an NCAA tournament. By that same theory, the top four teams in the ACC should have all been #1's for the basketball tournament. It's ridiculous and puts all the weight on the shoulders of a computer ranking. Imagine this year if Colorado College would have made the tournament. They'd have had a home rink to play their regional games based on what? A near .500 record? Surely, you jest. I don't think there was anything wrong with the way the system used to be with the exception of the silly two-games total goals rule.
Anyone concur?
Most coaches agree the system isn't perfect, but it's the best we have. A near .500 record in the WCHA this year meant you were a pretty good team--see DENVER. The Gophers earned their #1 seed based on the criteria of the system. They got good marks for their strength of schedule and non-conference play. They also won the WCHA final five tournament, and got hot (and healthy) at the end of the season. Most of us agree that the non-conference games are a lot of fun, and they do offer teams, coaches, and fans the chance to see how they match up against other non-conference foes. The point is that match ups between Minn and Mich or UND and BC ought to count for something when post season seeds are determined.
Personally, I like the system the way it is. Curiously, nearly every year since it was put into effect, the teams who make it to the Frozen Four match up pretty well with the computer rankings, notable exceptions notwithstanding. Denver winning it all this year is a little surprising, but then again they were very competitive in the toughest conference in the nation.
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I think you are wrong if you think that practice has ended at Mariucci. I will say I was not at Mariucci this year for the first time in many years, so maybe I'm wrong.
You are not wrong. Many people (most of them are in the student section...big surprise) do in fact invoke the name of the Gopher.
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2. Why not use it? The Sioux and other American Indians were here first so technically it is the home of the Sioux.
So...by that logic...so were Gophers! Therefore, "Gophers" may also be substituted for Brave..Q.E.D. And before all you Sioux lovers start yakkin' about how Gophers aren't brave, but rather yella, have you ever had one cornered?...I thought not.
But seriously, while I am not offended that fans substitute their mascot in for the "Brave," I personally choose NOT TO...because I do believe it vitiates the meaning and intent of singing the anthem in the first place...heck, why not change some of the other words as well? "....gave proof through the night that The Ralph was still there...."
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The NCAA tournament is by its very design a tournament with many faults. Don't know, but I'm guessing the best team in the country wins maybe 25% of the time. This year, that team was likely North Dakota...and they were done in by hot goaltending. Denver really surprised everyone since they really didn't surge until the last possible moment...heck, they even won without Dora in the line up.
National titles are not the true measure of a program's success. That would be like concluding Phil Mickelson is a marginal golfer because he only has one major. The only true test of program success in the league is W-L records. Success against individual teams is a simple measurement of head-to-head W-L. The NCAA title is nice, but most admit it requires a lot of luck to get it...even if you are the best team in the field.
Though fair, I doubt the NCAA will go to a multi-game format. I don't think there's enough national interest to expand the tournament.
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Silly me!
I always start reading the thread from the beginning! Looks like you're the one who's not lucid. 
..and name calling is so junior high!
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Seems that many of you just can't accept that awesome, well-deserved, gritty, come-from-behind, one-for-ages, sweet and harmonious National Championship by the M-I-N-N-E-S-O-T-A Golden Gophers in 2002.
My gosh, what a surprise. Well, your failure to accept that National Championship outcome makes it only SWEETER for Gopher fans who HATE the Sioux (please note, I actually believe that teams like the Sioux are GREAT for Gopher hockey...as many true fans from North Dakota would agree that having MINNESOTA in their conference is as good as it gets).
Get over it gentlemen. The 2002 National Championship is in the books...and I don't believe they put an asterisk on the plaque.
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Goren is tremendously strong. I have met him several times personally past two years...friend of a friend...on the golf course. He has a very strong upper body.
Panzer does lack strength. I just don't recall him being that fast (I'm talking flat out speed here). I remember him as an able skater, with decent speed, who saw the ice well and was great on the rush.
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Vanek just happened to be the last ingredient to a championship team. I do not think that Vanek was the key to the Gopher's repeat NC. I believe the entire team was responsible. They clicked well, jumped on the puck extraordinarily well, and faced a Hockey East team that (some could argue) was a fluke to get to the game. UMN was just a BETTER TEAM than anyone else that year. It didnt come down to just one.
The argument that hockey is a team game is as sound as it comes. Last year's MN team did have the right ingredients for a repeat NC team; however, I give Vanek much credit for his three INDIVIDUAL efforts: The GWG against Michigan, the GWG against UNH (University of No Hardware) and his sensational rush that led to Waibel's goal (third of game and clincher). All that said, I gotta give just as much credit to Weber throughout the tournament, Paul Martin (diving save against Michigan)...yep, it's a team game.
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I won't flame you. Martin is definitely a more complete defenseman...but remember Ballard was a winger growing up. He may be a very good power play defenseman in the NHL...who knows, maybe he could play forward again? Ballard's out-of-the-zone passing is fantastic. He can skate. His shot ain't bad either...this is akin to a kid who can throw a 90-mile-an-hour fastball...draft the arm, develop the player!
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2. That size doesn't matter: Ability does. That means players like Panzer may indeed get their chance.
Martin's performance may have helped keep Panzer in the league. It probably didn't hurt Murphy too.
I guess I am inspired by Martin. Let's hope that he keeps going down the path and not end up like Fleury.
Lack of size can play only if it's made up by OUTSTANDING ability. I remember Panzer as a great play maker in college, but lacking a little bit in flat out speed...similar to Larry Olimb of Gophers or Brian Bonin etc. Then you have guys like Lee Goren, who does have size and can score, but lacks some of the skating skills. Sometimes you just don't know how they'll do until they actually get there and play. Many believed Paul Martin would have a tough time catching on right away, but if you look at his minutes game by game it's just mind boggling for a "college senior."
Sioux Hobey Baker Help
in Men's Hockey
Posted
From the aforementioned link:
2. Candidates must contribute to the integrity of the team and display outstanding skills in all phases of the game.
How many points you score = display of outstanding skills. I guess you should have read it too.