undsportsfan
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Posts posted by undsportsfan
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UND has said repeatedly "Let's work this out" to the tribes and some tribal leaders have responded "Change the name and we'll work things out." (paraphrased) How is that compromise? How is that willingness to work with the University? If Gothmog is indeed correct and UND won't be able to work with the tribes, can UND be held responsible for such a breakdown if they are attempting to work with the tribes and the tribes refuse to work with UND? It seems more like the tribes' fault rather than the University's. Yet, everyone is willing to point fingers at UND because of a nickname and the fact that, like most of North Dakota, it is predominantly white. UND is also run like a business, not a commune akin to socialistic idiologies. Why that is worth noting because that seems to be the growing mindset among many minorities towards the white person and white-run industry. The White people should do everything in their power to make things easier for minorities to compete except expecting them to perform at the same level as white people. Why? Now, perhaps Gothmog or undsportsfan can help me answer this one. I thought the only difference intelligence wise between a Native American and a White person was... um... I don't know. I don't see any difference in intelligence between the two. Saying that there is would be like justifying people who long ago said that the reason why blacks are slaves is because they are incapable of thinking like a white man. So, if Native Americans are just as smart as White people (which I think they are), why can't they obtain the same level of qualification as white people and succeed accordingly? Why do maybe 51% of Native Americans graduate from high school and then many complain about how life is not treating them well compared to the white person, of which over 85% (hovering around 90% actually) graduate high school?
The fact is that life isn't like some of the things you get on the reservation. You don't get a hefty sum of money on your 18th birthday. You don't get federal handouts based on present sympathies regarding past events in the real world. You fight to survive every day and many white people equate education as part of the fight. If you don't make it part of the fight, you don't succeed educationally and, hence, you start to see a disparity between yourself and the people you compete with. In American society, you have to work to get what you want. With that work comes a measure of conformity and adapting a mindset different from how you were raised. This midset and conformity don't necessarily mean eliminating your home culture. It means putting on a different face when you leave the home or community center. That's difficult for many people, not just Native Americans. I could give examples. However, it is never the fault of the person for not succeeding, it's some third party's fault. Time to stand up and take some of the blame yourselves for the toil and anguish you and your family endure. If that happens, then maybe they will in turn help others recognize it and then the 49% who don't have a high school diploma may go back for their GED and start thinking not about how to be a Native American in American society, but rather how to be an AMerican without losing my Native American heritage.
No, this isn't just a Native American problem. This is a problem all over the place. Affirmative Action and quotas embody the same or similar things. I mean, would you feel good about yourself if you were hired not because you were best qualified for the job, but rather because there aren't enough Native Americans employed by the company and the company needed to fill that slot in order to avoid being labelled as a racist organization? SUre, you'd end up with a nice job. And I bet it would be difficult to back up and say "I will not be the company's pet" when the salary of the job will provide adequately for your family and it is a job you wanted to hold, qualified or not.
Sorry I was late in response. But that's my perspective on this.
So I want some heft sum that everyone seems to always talk about when we debate the nickname issue. I want some of these royalty and treaty checks. I was born and raised on a reservation and still enrolled there. My mailbox is empty yet.
I get so tired of everyone quick to assume the know so much about life as a Native American and life on a reservation. I don't care if someone here will argue they have lived on one. EACH RESERVATION AND TRIBE IS DIFFERENT. Just assuming each person gets some heft sum of money from the government is yet another stereotype.
As for taking care of one another, yeah I guess according to America, I'm socialist. I believe in taking care one another. I guess I'm a good doer that makes people sick to their stomachs. I don't care what the color of a person's skin is. If they're hungry, I'll feed them. If they're need a place to sleep, I'll get them shelter. If they're hurting, I'll find a way to stop that pain. Its the way I was raised I suppose.
You know, aren't we debating the nickname? Oh, no... lets criticize Natives and bring up anything negative we can think of so we can take the focuse off of the issue once again.
Yes, its sad that the drop out rate is high on reservations. We're working on it. I can say on my reservation the school enrollment and graduating rate increases yearly. Good for them! And many people do continue to get their GED's. But then, many of these elders in our community still don't speak English. Good for them that they have preserved what's left of the language here. However, its just now becoming customary for children to go to school. I sit and visit with my elders, they were taken out of their homes at young ages to work and make ends meet because their original way of life wasn't allowed, and they suddenly had to pay bills for the current times. Some of these people are only 60 years old. So forgive me and anyone else that sympathizes with lack of American Education standards. However I think many of these people are far more intelligent than people with that posses a doctorate. Infact, one of the more successful men in the TriState area from Indian Country didn't recieve a complete education.
I am not to discuss Affirmative Action here either. Like many things, I don't agree with it, but it had a purpose and reason behind it. And again... lets get back to the issue of the nickname. Not cutting down my people. I don't do it to anyone here... so why is it okay for you to do it? I thought you honor us?
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What was the point of this article? All I got out of it was that they have less than $100,000 to work with. Who gives a sh-t who pays the Utah lawyers, there is no way that the State of North Dakota can pay the lawyers, it would be on the books.
Why is Amy Dalrymple so bent on who is paying for what...as long as the State doesn't pay, who gives a sh-t? She must be a big supporter of changing the name or something...this article was stupid.
Amy Dalrymple has focused many articles on UND and the Fighting Sioux nickname and anything related to it. However, I do feel that she writes articles that are clearly opinion and looks for an answer that she wants & not necessarily out for truth. My own personal opinion is she's just a journalist trying to get a name for herself. She's put out columns before that were entirely unresearched, taking one person's comment or opinion and not really listen to much else.
Like anything though, people always want to know where the money is coming from... whether it has to do with a nickname or someone's advertisement in the media. We're just all pretty nosey like that, and by we, I mean all Americans, right?
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I think you are wrong. I have always heard that it is only the tribal leaders and a few others that make a big stink over the nickname. The majority of tribal members supprt UND and like the nickname. I am beginning to think that Gothmog is actually GK in disguise.
Ok, how come when the nickname issue is out and about we start 'threatening' to take money away towards Native American programs? the nickname has nothing to do with these programs.
why is this accused to be Gothmog GK in disguise? Or am I GK in disguise? or anyone else who is a member of this website that have debated the issue from the opposing side of the discussion? Why can't we just state our personal opinions and all be different people that have similar opinions, as many of you do about supporting the nickname? Or are you all one person? I don't know who Gothmog is, but perhaps it is actually someone new. But I haven't been posting on these forums lately... just reading them.
Everyone regardless of their position is often told that they are wrong for what they believe, and in turn, they ask why their opinion is wrong, and everyone else is right? then they go and do the same thing again and again. its like a broken record.
as for 'hearing' it's only tribal leaders and a few others, i'd have to beg to differ. There's plenty of people that don't support the nickname, some are more vocal then others obviously. Some of us naive people that we'd be able to give different perspectives on the matter too, only to be harassed and mistreated. And all we wanted was to be heard, to be listened to. Instead nothing but disrespect and claims that a few of us were the ones being disrespectful or calling others racists or engaging in reverse racism. Something I have not been involved in, yes there are people who come on here and do engage in racists acts, which I disagree with, but others, well, again, just want to have an actual conversation without resorting to name calling. Because we know how name calling gets a job done...
anyway... I hope everyone had a good holiday and happy new year.
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I still think the only way out of this that would make everyone happy would be to get tribal approval (again, I know if it were easy, we would have already done it).
Unfortunately though, councils change every two years, and each person is will have a different perspective on it. And when it comes to the public voting, just as in any town, county, or state, you just don't get everyone out to go vote... and it's also difficult when people don't have all the information I guess.
I think for many natives on reservations, including myself, some of us just didn't know what it was all about until you either started following the news (which is always misleading) or lived where the problem really was.
It's just one of those neverending things when it comes to trying to gain tribal approval. About anything. Not just this nickname. And many tribal council members just get annoyed with UND asking them to make a decision. It's not on their main agenda, though many feel its important, but there are just other issues to deal with.
It's just an unfortunate situation for everyone.
Oh Jim... Like the new updates!
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I hope no one out there believes this group represents Baptists specifically or Christians in general. After living in three states,New Jersey, Virginia, and South Carolina, I have never met any Baptists who would participate in or agree with their actions. Hopefully they will focus their hearts toward JESUS and leave the families alone.
No, for me, I understand that they are just extremists. I have friends that are from all different religions. As a Christian though, I will just continue to pray for them and anyone else affected by this. Hopefully, but very doubtful, that someday they'll realize that they are wrong. I think they are misrepresenting Baptists by going to such extremes... I would not let one or two or three individuals deter me from learning or basing my opinions by their reckless and ridiculous actions claiming to represent a whole group.
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Well then it's a good thing you're commenting on it.
I asked a real question, seeking an answer. And someone answered it politely. Thank you.
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Unfortunately, they are taking advantage of the very freedom that these soldiers have died protecting. Some laws have been changed recently to keep protests a distance away from the funeral but it isn't always enough. It is too bad that we can't set up an exchange program to send them to Iraq or some place to see the reaction they would get there for their protests.
I am sure that the family would appreciate any support the community can provide.
that would definitely set them straight.
I'll definitely say prayers for the family and those who will be protecting them this weekend.
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Perhaps anyone who plans on going should maybe take their American Flags and hold them up high and tight, so the signs of the protestors can't be seen?
I wish that there was more jurisdiction over these demonstrators. At Nathan's (Cpl Goodiron) funeral, we were fortunate enough to bar these people off the reservation and let Eileen & family grieve in private.
Maybe the demonstrators need to go live somewhere else so they know why we are at war trying to protect this country...
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http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=19487
Religious group plans protest at GF soldier's funeralHerald Staff Report
Published Wednesday, December 06, 2006
Members of the Westboro Baptist Church plan a picket protest at the funeral of Cpl. Chris Kleinwachter this weekend, according to a press release from the religious group.
Kleinwachter, a member of the 188th Air Defense Artillery based in Grand Forks, was killed in what Guard officials have ruled an accident. A funeral service will be held at 1 p.m. Saturday.
Members of the religious group, based in Topeka, Kan., have appeared at soldiers' funerals to taunt and heckle family members. During their protests, they display signs celebrating the soldiers' deaths and condemning homosexuality. They say God is punishing the United States for tolerating homosexuality.
Group members have appeared in North Dakota before, at the Fargo funeral of Spc. Michael Hermanson, 21, who was a member of the North Dakota National Guard's 142nd Engineer Combat Battalion.
If I'm snowed in to Grand Forks this weekend, I will help in anyway I can too.
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As I sit here listening to the news, they've announced demonstrators are planning to come to Grand Forks for the funeral of Cpl Kleinwachter.
They were trying to create something to protect the services, but didn't come up with money... ...is anyone planning or willing to go to protect this family? They are grieving now and I am just appauled by this church group.
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Well then it's a good thing you're commenting on it.
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He is involved because he is a Dartmouth Alum......apparently someone cares how he feels. I for one, don't. I voted for the girl.
ohhhh... makes sense... lol
i don't read most of the stuff on dartmouth and UND fighting...
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a law now that if you post on a internet message board, you're true identity can be told to anyone that inquires about it. I thought I read something about it, or heard about it not so long ago- two guys were joking on the radio that if someone insults you on a message board, you have the right to find out who it is.
I could be mistaken.
i never insulted her.
and no one directly asked my name. and after seeing what goes on lately, i definitely won't for the time being. I would wish to keep my name anonymous for the time being, and hopefully people can respectfully do the same. I've respectfully withheld names before at their request... so again, I expect the same.
I've never come on this board and acted in a racist manner. For that matter, I don't believe I've ever harassed anyone on here either. Maybe a simple message in private to requesting that the behavior to stop. But of course, it only encouraged them.
or never meant to if I did. and if I had in the past. My apologies.
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is this strange that we are now calling the governor? I mean... anyone that is a major activist or protestor against the nickname is told to find better things to do, fight other fights... but while the Hoeven is trying to work, they are calling him to make statements about a nickname?
I dunno. It just isn't making sense at this moment. For me, Hoeven has a lot more to deal with on his plate than discussing the nickname.
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I finally went and had a look at GK's myspace page. (He attacked me before he was banned here too.) What he has just as titles on his "blog" is totally uncalled for. I have never seen anyone call him out for his race as he does to non-indians. This man is not worth my time, or anyone else's.
Could it be that his IP address has changed since he is no longer holding the position he was holding? Did him quitting cause a move to a new residence and Internet Provider? If so, dumbpeoplesuk could easily be GK. Just an idea. I don't think Sioux-cia should have to put up with what he is doing to her. I would probably think about getting a protection order. Seriously.
Sorry if this is off topic, but I had to say it.
i agree lots of things are uncalled for. DPS is not GL... ...hopefully we'll (the person I assume is DPS and myself) get to talk about what was posted on here again in private and that it will stop.
Um... That whole idea of getting a restraining order may be a good idea if needed... but remember that means she will have to stop Harassing him and stop talking about him too if he has to do the same. I am familiar with restraining orders, that both parties have to abide by the rules... not just one person in particular and not the other. (NO I have never had one on me or give one to somebody) And well if any harassing behavior continue towards me, I would unfortunately would have to resort to doing the same thing with a restraining order. And that is something I do not want to do either. I don't think that Restraining Orders are a good idea on the other hand... because if its someone who works in a facility that is to care for the public, well, not good... because what if you have to treat someone that you have a restraining order against?
More of a reason that this whole nickname issue is getting out of hand. Look at all this behavior it's triggering, and possible behavior.
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I was responding to you talking about being threatened. I've seen threats made to people by the anti-nickname crowd to people that have chosen to vocally support the name.
That person sounds like a moron. Not everyone is like that. If you are socializing with this person, I suggest that you stop.hi,
i agree that anyone supporting a name change should stop harassing or threatening others that support the name. but i also think that it needs to go both ways. a member here is acting in a threatening manner towards me and also others.
and the moron... unfortunately is a relative. so i can tell him he's a moron... but he'll never change. he argues to argue i think. and yes i tell him to stop coming over to my home and dont address me around my friends if he just wants to act like a jerk.
what's funny is that the people i was with the one night in particular, most of them support the nickname... others don't care. and we all told this guy to stop talking about it.
but i guess i'm giving more information now than i care too because it gives someone info to go search into my private space.
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Why don't we all just drop the arguments? Neither side is going to give in, and neither side is going to convince the other side of why they should be on the opposite side.
This has all become rather tiresome.
There are those of us that are for the Fighting Sioux nickname that are afraid of being verbally abused, as well as people that fear they are in physical danger for being an outspoken supporter of the name.....
It goes both ways.
I agree with you. But I assume if it's been brought up in the forum, it's open for discussion and debate. And what about me or anyone that supports a name Change...? There's a member here trying to harass me now for just stating my opinions or debates. I have never tried harassing her in anyway? And by trying to reveal my identity she could very well be putting me in danger or my family.
There's extremists on both sides unfortunately. I agree. I don't agree with immature behavior. I just was trying to have an actual conversation about what's being said. Forums are brought up and only hear one side of what's going on... So I'm just trying to elaborate.
But thanks, I do agree... it gets very tiring. One of the reasons why I am getting sick of the nickname. I can't even sit at a restaurant without someone bringing it up. And if I ask them to drop it, it gives them more fuel to try to talk about it. Well not talk... yell.
Just all really sad. And I am Very sincere about that. For safety, I won't ever give my true identity on here after what I've seen... but if you knew me, you'd know I am sincere that pity everyone that is consumed by the subject or affected on a personal level.
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How is someone to know you are from North Dakota if you are in another state. Just looking at you because you are Native American, I find it hard to believe that someone is going to assume you are from ND and say 'Sioux Suck'. Granted the form of that "chant" is not favorable, it has everything to do with a sporting nature. If someone is at an athletic event and is cheering against the Sioux with that phrase, I doubt they are thinking....'I am making sure all Native Americans know I am insulting them'. Seems a bit over the top.
because before it actually happened, the people asked where we were from. And so as the people ran by yelling, the group of Native children stood their mouths and eyes wide open in shock.
And exactly.... I later realized it had to do with UND and not us being Native. But to this day I wonder if all the children there knew that? And once again, yes I know the intentions are not meant to offend Native Americans, but only to UND sports fans... but yet its still offensive.
And my example of the visit to Minnesota is a prime example of offensive behavior that should have never happened.
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Talking down to Sioux fans on a Sioux fans forum does not help your "logical reasoning" argument. Your analysis for associating children with a logo debate is quite low on the ladder of 'logical arguments.' If you have been hurt, remove yourself from the apparent problem you have with us. If your children have been hurt by it, do the same. You can control, to an extent, what you see and hear every day about "hostile and abusive" nicknames. If I'm misunderstood, it is up to the parent to take care of their children, so are you not somewhat responsible for what they are exposed to? Your libel is quite inappropriate in calling North Dakotans guilty of child endangerment.
If you want to make it a problem, then you can certainly make a stink, like you have, in these forums. Granted, you may be one for insisting 'facts' without basis (covering up incidents...I'm not sure that any one person in ND doesn't know about the Sioux name debate), but if you were in Grand Forks, you'd have to look long and hard to see blatant racism toward the Sioux tribe, name, or logo.
Creating a problem without suggesting a solution besides assuming false facts and saying 'change the name'...doesn't sound like you have any basis for argument.
So anyone who's children have witnessed racism here in Grand Forks should move away? I can't control what is said to my children if they are at school. Or in the playground. So that means I should home school them?
This summer, a child was playing in my backyard with other children. Then they made fun of him because he was a boy with braids. Then they said something about that's how all Sioux look. I took the children aside and discussed the situation and that it wasn't right. During the discussion, one of the kids said something about the Fighting Sioux and that's all he knows about Indians. So I took him under my wing and taught him a little more. All kids walked away with learning something. However, once again, it was another incident that came in from the logo apparently.
And as stated/asked, "You can control, to an extent, what you see and hear every day about "hostile and abusive" nicknames. If I'm misunderstood, it is up to the parent to take care of their children, so are you not somewhat responsible for what they are exposed to? "
My response is to that, that is why the nickname needs to cease to exist. Then that doorway will be shut. Yes there other doorways, etc... And that's why when this issue is discussed, we should attempt to be mature about it. I don't agree with people coming in here and have their drive by comments either.
And this is a forum, I assumed we discuss and debate. How can you debate if there's no one on the opposing side of the discussion? And so, that's why I'm responding.
Yes there are members of this ss.com that agree that the name will eventually change and for the better. Unfortunately they do not want to be verbally attacked for having an opinion, they've expressed it to me in private, yet they have also asked me to keep from using their names. And that I have done, and will remain to do. Unlike other's who've tried to reveal my identity and post personal information on here. People have been told to refrain from personally attacking others, but certain people have been able to continue to do so without any form of reprimand.
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We will be waiting for your answer. Because that question has been asked in various forms throught this thread and you still haven't answer the question.
I know people will still wear their Fighting Sioux regalia with pride even if the name is retired. However those who are affected by the name personally, mostly Native people, will be able to have one door shut to that once allowed racism. Yes racism will always exist, but atleast people won't be able to hide behind a sports nickname if that is the case. And those of us who enjoy sports, can go to the game without hearing words being yelled out that seem to be directed towards their heritage, or seeing imagery being used disrespectfully.
If the name is retired, say if I'm sitting at some concert or other event, perhaps in Minnesota, with my children and family.. and hear someone come by knowing I'm from North Dakota, and say, "Sioux Suck!" I will know that it is actually being directed towards my family and can handle it the situation without someone hiding behind "I was referring to UND."
anyway... I don't have time to write a big essay, so this will have to suffice for an answer.
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We can only hope these guys get to meet bubba in prison.
I don't follow news a whole lot... but is this a repeating occurance against all athletes? It appears many athletes are victims of violence recently? Why is this trend showing up?
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Based on what I read in LaPointe's MySpace, IMHO, dumbperson and undsportsfan are friends of his. Given that, I believe they are fullfilling his agenda by posting here. I don't know what undsportsfan is referring to when she mentions concern about her family being attacked. How is she or her family being attacked? We don't agree with her? Is she related to Gary LaPointe? That would explain alot.
Nope. I only know him in passing, sorry, not a relative or a close friend.
And in reference to attacks, that is not saying you Jozee ( that's you're name right? you posted that a few threads ago) in particular... but you sure are trying to attack personally. It's fine though. I don't mind. I'll have to take it with a grain of salt.
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I don't agree with anyone personally attacking anyone when it comes to this issue. But it happens. Obviously. I don't agree that it was okay that someone hacked into your account. I don't agree with anything like that. However when you continue to harass people over the issue, it just validates how bad the behavior is with this nickname issue on BOTH sides.
I've said I once supported the nickname. I even own Fighting Sioux regalia. Do I wear it anymore? Nope. I looked at both sides of the debate and decided that I'd like to see it changed.
Once upon a time I thought when the State Board of Educated said the nickname should stay, I thought it'd be over. And it wasn't. So obviously, in my opinion, those that are battle with the nickname with protesting, etc, will continue to do so until it's changed. I might not go sit at the picket line, but I don't shout profanity as I drive by.
I know I won't change minds here. But atleast I've given people a different perspective on this without using hurtful words or belittled myself to name calling when trying to get my point across, which I'm sure has happened before I ever posted here, and what we witnessed a few days ago.
Well, you all have a great night. Thanks everyone who's atleast made more civil conversation and stuck to the issue.
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I am the type that would just yell back "No Go Sioux" or "something" and smile back.
Being on opposite ends of an issue does not have to break up friendships if you don't let it. Just keep it light-hearted.
My daughter is a TOTAL liberal and I am very conservative. We do not agree on many issues, but we still love each other dearly. That's just life.
You're absolutely right that it doesnt have to break up friendships... Most of the time I do take it light hearted. But if a person you see pushes you every moment you are together. Even when I ask them to drop it or change the subject and they refuse, I have had to make the choice not to let them in. Fortunately, they weren't very good friends to begin with, just aquaintances. Unfortunately, they were once my spouse's friends. They still talk... but my spouse had asked them to quit being disrespectful to me and our family, and that unfortunately ended their friendships. They still talk occassionally, but it has all been left to small talk when I'm around. Because as soon as I cross their path, they make a comment about the nickname. I usually smile or ignore them.
I have to say I'm a moderate. I'm very conservative about somethings, and others very much on the other side. I tried to be moderate in this situation... but after a while it got to be way too much. And I don't want my children to have to deal with wondering why someone says something about the Sioux, and us question ourselves, when that person was actually meaning the Fighting Sioux, not my child's bloodline. Nor do I want to see this happen to anyone elses children, no matter what age.
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Undsportsfan,
I've found your posts very hard to stomach because they seem to be all touchy feely...Basically, if it feels good to you than its okay, but if it doesn't feel good to you then its got to be bad. You constantly preach understanding, but it seems to be only the opposing group needing to understand you and not the other way around. Lastly, you seem to offer some advice on how to deal with the situation if the name changes (Basically accept it and work with the opposing group to accept their feelings), but I truly wonder if you are going to be willing to do the same if the court case and the final ruling goes the way of the majority?? Your response should be very telling to your true intentions about this subject.
BOBIWABUCHIFAN
PS If you can't stand the heat in the kitchen, then get out of the kitchen!
Well maybe they are touchy feely because people are trying to personally attack me and my family? And I don't appreciate anyone going there.
I understand why people hang on to the name so dearly and intensely. Once again, I am a sports fan. I know what tradition means. But that doesn't mean traditions can justify this behavior I have witnessed.
And just because the court may rule in favor of UND doesn't mean the subject will Ever die. Once again, it'll always and forever be an issue until it is laid to rest by retiring the name and logo.
haha... funny you used that heat in the kitchen thing...
Media Stories on the Sioux Name
in UND Nickname
Posted
I have never said my race is no better but it is no less than anyone elses. I never said that we had it the hardest, but many people in this world do. Everyone, no matter the race has hardships. Again, I'm proud to be Ojibwe. But that doesn't mean I look down on other races. I wish others didn't look down on me. I wish that just because I have an opinion that doesn't sit well with others wouldn't cause so much disrespect and pain as it does. It's a shame that people here are so cruel. This is a so called discussion group but all we do is belittle ourselves down to name calling and supporting hatred.
All I have done is post in response to some of the stereotypes that are on here, such as the supposed lump somes of money Natives recieve. And on that note, anyone that did receive those treaties or royalties, it is compared to trust funds for any non native or native person that maybe their father or grandfather invested wisely. Why do we hate anyone who's family wisely invested money for their children, grandchildren and great grandchildren? Or do we? Good for anyone that has thought of the future and not waste money away. And that's the same as when my great grandfathers signed those treaties.
How does anyone here know that I only volunteer my time to Native people? No one here knows me, who I am or what I do? Of course I feel partial to take care of my family, just as you all do, I think. My family doesn't just consist of my biological brothers and sisters, it consists of the communities I was raised in. They give me respect and in turn I give them mine.
I believe in taking care of everyone, regardless of sex, race, creed, etc. And same goes for respect, if they will give it to me.
and on that note Josie, you've made it abundantly clear that you do not like me. I get it, and never questioned it. Your little letters to me online in private and in public are pretty childish, no immature, I wouldn't want to compare you to a child. Move on and grow up a little bit, eh?