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puck swami
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Posts posted by puck swami
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4 hours ago, AlphaMikeFoxtrot said:
What is UW?
University of Wyoming in Laramie, Wyo. which is about a 2-hour drive from Denver, and less than that from Denver's Northern suburbs. They get a similar amount of press in Denver as DU does, with their football and hoops about equaling DU's hockey, lacrosse and hoops coverage. But the lion's share of college sports coverage goes to Colorado and Colorado State as the rival public schools here, followed by the other DI schools -- DU, Wyoming, Northern Colorado and Air Force, all in a similar measure. But the college sports coverage badly trails the Broncos (NFL), Rockies (MLB), Avalanche (NHL), Nuggets (NBA), Rapids (MLS), Mammoth (NLL), Eagles (AHL), Pro Skiing, Tennis, Golf, Racing, etc.
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As a longtime Denver fan, I'll chime in with a few perspectives here - perhaps it might change some minds...
First, I had not heard about the Denver AD berating MSUM's AD "in front of peers" 10 years ago. While it sounds kinda awful the way the story was related on this message board, some wider historic context is probably important to understand the very real sense of deep anger about that very issue -- the commitment of resources -- that broke up the WCHA about 10 years ago --at the time those alleged comments were likely made. It's easy for Mavs fans and administrators to look back at 10 years ago with anger at those comments. Back then, the college hockey world was a far different place, and MSUM as a program, WAS decidedly a laggard in terms of spending, relative to the top programs, and it was seriously hurting the WCHA back then. If you've read Brad Schlossman's (btw, the best college hockey beat writer in America) superbly-reported three-part epic on the formation of the NCHC in the Grand Forks Herald a few years ago (and I'm sure most of the fans on this board here have read it), you'll remember that there were small-budget schools in the WCHA at the time who not only refused to commit the resources needed to be nationally competitive, but would also not commit the resources needed to improve the league, either. And those small budget schools had more votes in the WCHA league meetings, which deeply angered schools like North Dakota and Denver, who were trying to upgrade the WCHA in a variety of areas after big-budget schools Minnesota and Wisconsin had left the WCHA for the Big 10. And when the small budget WCHA schools, went ahead and covertly offered "stand-pat" commissioner Bruce McLeod (who had no plans to expand/improve the WCHA after UM/UW left), a contract extension and that was the last straw. Denver, North Dakota and Miami led the charge to found a league for other "like-minded" schools - the NCHC, where they would not be hamstrung and could spend the money to create the best hockey league in the country. Looking back on it, the NCHC is head-and-shoulders above all leagues today because of the foresight of schools like Denver and North Dakota, who would not be pushed into that small program, cost-containment mindset.
Moreover, those Denver AD comments were certainly made in a private room, among league peers gathered for the very purpose of discussing these very issues, and not in in public. It's also highly possible that the Denver AD at the time could have been speaking about all of the WCHA spending laggards in general, and not just MSUM. Finally, in a closed-door league meeting like that, angry issues get discussed in front of peers all the time. So for MSUM leaders to talk about what happened in a private meeting, in public, 10 years later to try to embarrass Denver (in public), is largely sour grapes and poor form. Closed-door meetings should be just that, even 10 years later. Finally, MSUM should be thanking Denver for providing private-room incentive to improve - and 10 years later, it is a much better program. The Mavs were great in Boston and had a wonderful, best-ever season, under a great coach. They are flourishing in the CCHA, too. Of all the schools 'left behind' when the NCHC was founded, it is Minnesota State who made the most lemonade with those perceptual lemons. They have had a lot of joy in Mankato since the breakup of the WCHA. The Mavs now generate 8-10 victories more year (at least) by not having to play in the nation's toughest conference - the NCHC meat grinder. And over time, those extra victories have allowed the Mavs to attract better talent, who want to play for a program that that now has a great shot at 30 wins every year and an easier shot an NCAA bid/higher seed. As good as the Mavs have become in the recent new era, they decidedly would not be the 30+-win/year program the are now by playing an NCHC league schedule every year...
And on the subject of North Dakota's current standing in the college hockey world, make no mistake -- this Denver fan still sees UND as a gold standard program in NCAA Hockey - we view UND with respect and envy and that's true for a lot of die-hard Pioneer fans. While DU may have one more National Championship than UND, and while that is hugely important, that that's only one measure of a hockey program's strength. North Dakota still leads the nation in facilities, attendance, fan base size, and NHL player production, which are hugely important drivers of importance in the world of college hockey. Look at recruiting - UND is so stacked up front for next year at forward that they just told a potential NHL draft pick, Cole Spicer, to find another school. Moreover, UND is the largest athletic attraction in its entire state. UND can drive sellout crowds in places like Las Vegas and Nashville, which few other programs could even dream of doing. UND has made the most of history and tradition to overcome a difficult recruiting location, albeit in a natural hockey-playing area, and the coaching from your ex-NHL staff is superb. UND is a program that others would love to emulate and raises the bar for everyone else. As a Denver fan, UND brings out the best in our program. and I'm sure we bring out the best in yours. It's a great rivalry, and we're thrilled that Denver and North Dakota took the leadership roles in forming our league. And when UND fans see us as a small fan base of snobs and newbies, there is a lot of truth in that stereo type.
As good as Denver is on the ice these days, we Pios will always struggle to build a large following for our program. There are many reasons for this reality. We are sport attraction number #10-15 in our own city, and as a private school, we don't receive the casual fan benefits of a state flagship school or even a public university. Our school is small, selective and private with just 6,000 undergrads in a mostly non-hockey hotbed, a majority of whom come from from more than 1,000 miles away and did not grow up cheering for Denver with their family, so there is little fan continuity.
Are we snobby? Yes, with good reason. The school just passed $1B in endowment. Excellence is assumed here and expectations are high. The local community sees us as a school for rich kids, which has a lot truth to it. Most of the students here come primarily from affluent backgrounds and other sophisticated cities in East, Midwest, Texas and the West. And when they grow up, they have a lot competing for their time and interest. You can't be a sucessful private school without the rich people who pay the bills to help subsidize the not so rich ones. The high academic standards at Denver also draw a lot of non-sports fans to campus. Even with the games on campus, free student tickets and a winning team, we're lucky to get 200 students at most games. Few people here grew up playing hockey in Colorado - many of our fans are newbies to hockey and to Denver. It's seen here as niche sport. There is so much going on in booming Denver that DU hockey is just a little niche sideshow here. Even the Avalanche, the best team in the NHL this year, is #11 in NHL attendance and usually don't sell out their building with 93% attendance this year. Denver is also transient city, where most residents were born somewhere else and retain sport allegiances to where they came from - hence the most of the UND fans who come to Magness live in the Denver area, but still cheer for their home state team. In an oversaturated market like ours, DU fights very hard for exposure in our own city, with eight pro teams and five other larger D-I public schools (CU, CSU, AFA, UNC and UW) are with 2 hours of campus, as well as world class skiing. Even as a 9-nine time national champ, our home games are not even often covered by the local newspaper and our game stories, when they do run, are typically buried on page 15 of the sports section. As a result, Denver's total fan base is small - perhaps 15,000-20,000 people follow us casually, while North Dakota's following is probably north of 150,000 people or more, as a state flagship school - at least 10 times Denver's size.
Frankly, we DU fans are very lucky to enjoy the quality of hockey we have here...
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3 hours ago, Wilbur said:
Glad to see Larsson gone. Now the Duluth machine in net....he is 23.....
DU is replacing Larsson with Magnus Chrona, a Tampa Draft pick:
https://letsgodu.com/2019/04/15/du-goaltending-filip-larsson-out-magnus-chrona-in/
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As a Denver fan who once made a living in the college game and has been a Denver fan for 40 years, I watched UND pretty closely this year as I do every year. Your team is a very good skating team that plays fundamentally sound, your compete level is higher than most, and your offensive and defensive systems are NHL standard. Your team is solid and essentially the same as everyone else's team in the NCHC with the big exception being the consistent drop in goal scoring in both 5 on 5 and PP that your fans have well pointed out. But you are not alone, as I think UND is emblematic of some larger trends right now, and I would encourage all of you to see the larger forces that are affecting college hockey. Blue bloods like North Dakota, Minnesota, Michigan and Wisconsin are all golfing now, and BC and BU must now win conference tourneys just to get to the dance? Why is this? Why is the traditional dominance eroding?
I think it boils down to five reasons:
1) Follow The Money. In the past, the Blue Bloods traditionally outspent the other schools to get their dominance and build on on their traditions, and now many other D-I programs have since invested in better facilities just to keep up. All of the NCHC schools, for example, have made multi-million dollar commitments to the sport in better facilities and good coaches. At the same time, the decline of cable TV audiences/coverage around the nation and the growth of streaming games have mitigated some of the media advantages one enjoyed by the blue bloods that was once a major selling point to recruits. The resulting flattening of college hockey investment and access, in turn, makes recruiting more competitive, and forces top programs to keep recruiting younger players, raising the risk that some of top-end young talent may not pan out. When you combine that with the grind of the NCHC schedule, you can see how scoring and winning becomes so much tougher.
2) Player Pool Leakage: The game of hockey has grown tremendously in terms of registered players and junior teams and development programs, while the number of scholarships available/slots to play college hockey has not grown very much. There are now really good players are available all over North America and from Europe who are flowing into the game and that talent is not just flowing to blue bloods, but flowing to other programs, too, creating more parity. Additionally, having recruiting pipeline advantages in "owning" certain recruiting areas is less important now than it once was. Good players can come from anywhere, and when top college coaches could rely on and became overly loyal to certain geographic areas or to specific junior programs, good players can get missed...
3) Offense is dropping, while defensive systems, scouting and specialized goalie coaching grows. Many programs have realized that if they can't find enough offensive production, the best way to stay competitive is to develop the defensive side of the game with the players they can get. Defensive systems emanating from the NHL have had a big effect on college coaches and have made gap control is as good as it has ever been, making offensive time and space pretty scarce, especially in the NCHC. You need quick and accurate releases and better net front presence for second chance shots, but most defenses now can keep even good shooters on the perimeter. Good goalies are everywhere now, and a .920 saves percentage is becoming the norm. Goalies who are positionally sound can now make good saves look very easy and that builds defensive confidence and deflates shooters. Getting 35-40 shots per game is no guarantee of scoring 3-4 goals anymore, and that makes it possible for many more teams to compete. Those teams who excel at shot blocking can often offset high end offenses, but the fact is we just aren't seeing game-breaking offensive players as much, and I think this affects the blue bloods more than anyone else.
4) Chemistry is more elusive: Team chemistry on top programs is more elusive now than it used to be. No one disputes that better players are critical to national success. That said, many teams still over-recruit high-end talent and under-recruit character. The blue bloods have always had greater access to the best players, so its easier to get caught up in stockpiling them, because many of them do leave early for NHL contracts. Other programs build their rosters on character guys who stay longer and help to mitigate the early talent losses. But beyond that, the character in the locker rooms evolves differently for each team, each year. You need the right balance and buy in, and that doesn't happen every year. There are a lot of pressures on student athletes today, and social media can make anyone's mistake global in seconds. As result, I think players are wound tighter and that can really be exacerbated in high-end programs where the pressure to perform individually can take its toll on team chemistry.
5) Entitlement mindset: The high end drafted player now often comes on campus with high expectations from NHL organizations, agents and their families. They are often coming in under this pressure and demanding top-six forward status or top-4 d-man status, power play time and preferential treatment that can really erode team chemistry from the non-drafted guys who have had to earn it. This often makes for difficult locker rooms and strained coaching relationships that we don't see. Having too many stars is not always a good thing, either. Every team needs good grinders, too. Schools who don't land as many of those high end guys try compensate by making team culture a strength, resulting in greater loyalty, more experience and larger senior classes (teams that win NCAA titles tend to have more seniors).
As I look at these trends, I see it getting much tougher to maintain traditional dominance for any program, even blue bloods, and we are going to see more down cycles (which for Blue Bloods, means stretches of mediocrity will become normal. We all have to adapt...
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6 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:
For the last time:
RPI is meaningless if you are in a one-bid league. Both the BSC and the Summit are one-bid leagues.
Not exactly. While that's essentially true for NCAA tourney selection, higher league RPIs do help in both recruiting and non-leage scheduling, as coaches have told me directly that some recruits and non league teams have thresholds where they will not consider joining or scheduling teams below a certain floor. Additionally, they may also play a role in TV negotiations and sponsorships revenue negotiations.
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As a Denver fan, it will be great to see UND coming to the Summit League. Right now, the closest thing DU has to a Summit rivalry is Omaha, but with UND joining, our hockey rivalry can expand to other sports. I think this is a great move for UND to renew rivalries with other Dakota schools and Omaha as well. Plus the Summit has a higher RPI than the Big Sky in men's hoops, and you should save a few travel bucks as well. Good move...
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A Denver fan checking in with good wishes. I hope Danny gets the care he needs and that his hockey career can continue.
Danny is a high-profile, highly drafted player with a very bright future in the game, and if his career is harmed by this, it would really be an awful thing for everyone.
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What website did that Old Pio look at that had people ripping the DU about not knowing how to play hockey? By the way, the hit was clean.
I know Old Pio and he's a very knowledegable guy who has seen many years of hockey. He also tends to wear his emotions on his sleeve - he's quick to anger at times. Every fan base has die-hards with different temperaments and we die hards often see the world through our fan lens first - it's that emotional bond we have between us and our team. I 'm not sure where he saw the quote, but if it was here, he shouldn't be surprised by it - this is UND fan site, for UND fans. Every time I come on here, I do so with the utmost respect for the tradition of Sioux hockey - it's a program that means as much to you as our program means to us in Denver. Though we might not always agree on everything, I have been very impressed with the general reactions and large outpouring of sympathy from the Sioux fans during this rough week for Malone, the Martins and for the DU program.
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Gwozdecky's perspective in todays news conference (on video).
He has some strong opinions about what he saw...how the refs called it and whether it was a legal hit....
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So my understanding is to abandon the WCHA, align with DU and CC and then attempt to woo other teams like Notre Dame.
Cool!
So.... when the pick and choose conference is formed and we're in a conference where, basically, every player will have enough frequent flyer miles to take a trip from Grand Forks to China every year or two, will they reconsider in order to.. you know... make travel costs.... less than incredibly unrealistically expensive?
Travel expenses... Think about it. You want to help pay for it? We will. They'll be part of the entity known as..... TICKET PRICES and Merchandising.
No thanks.
The WCHA won't be as badly affected as the CCHA, but to try to pick and choose will be ridiculous.
The "non BTHC" powerhouses that remain are DU, UND, Miami, and Notre Dame really. This is dumb to align with despite its strength (and I know I pontificated adding Miami).
The issue is with the CCHA. If the BTHC is formed, the CCHA is left with 8 teams. What will they do? Will they try to go back to a 10 team conference and add UAH and perhaps target a stronger AHA team like Niagara?
The potential breakaway schools have invested millions and millions into hockey and will get little benefit from playing in a crippled WCHA.
DU and CC fly almost every week and still make money now. UND, Notre Dame and Miami would have to pony up about $150,000- 200,000 more in travel costs, but that's well worth it with the quality of conference that could be created to really rival the Big 10 as a recruiting destination and in increased TV interest.
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I believe DU and North Dakota need to be leaders in this new world order if the BTHC happens as seperate conference.
UND is now a D-I school and needs to think like, and be with, schools that play hockey as a serious revenue sport.
I think DU, UND, CC, Notre Dame, and Miami would be a great start for a core conference to rival the Big 10.
We just can't sit around and let the big 10 relegate us into mid major irrelevance.
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Yep it would be classic gamesmanship
Goon, as usual - your insights are good.
Gwoz has been known to get into serious coach-speak about injuries.
That said, even if the Cheverie and Wiercioch are ready by Friday, Chevy will have been out 3 weeks, and Wiercioch out two weeks without practice at game speed. I would wonder how effective they will be.
I would be very surprised to see both play, slightly surprised to see one play, and not at all surprised if both are out.
DU has had bad injury luck this year so far, and lot's of guys have missed key games...
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Just to clarify a few things....
DU is anything but poor, folks. The DU endowment is over $300 million, almost twice UND's endowment of $178 million. The school has plenty of money.
The problem is DU sits in a very oversaturated sports media market with multiple pro and college teams, and still has one of the top TV schedules in the country. The reason DU's FSN games are not on Saturday' in the fall is becuase of college football contractual obligations for FSN-RM. FSN-RM does broadcast all DU Saturday home games after Christmas, once the college football season is over, as well as the Friday games (all season).
In other words, had DU played UND after X-Mas in Denver, the Saturday game would be televised. You can still watch the Saturday game on your computer either through DU or UND, which will be picking up the FSN generated feed. The coverage level is the same with FSN camera crews, replays, etc, just online.
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Hmm, in the Hakstol non verbal communication incident last year the University took the stand immediately that they were going to take action. This doesn't say that Denver will be doing anything about it (nor do they say the matter is closed.)
I think this statement is perhaps a prelude. Denver is waiting to see what the WCHA does. If the league doesn't suspend him, perhaps DU will.
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It would be embarrassing if he fell flat on his nose.
It's plenty embarrassing just as it is.
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The Gwoz Dasher Dance doesn't bother me at all, i find it amusing. Actually, I was hoping that we'd see it this weekend and I wasn't disappointed a bit.
At least we give Sioux fans their money's worth.
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I agree with that.
Funny thing is, Gwoz only does the dasher dance vs UND.
He's never done it vs. any other team that I am aware of....
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Denver University should fire Gwozdesky.
He fails to control his team. In fact, he promotes undiciplined behavior. Think about last year when he pushed his players toward ours, again on the ice, in some sort of a sick make them fight bad soccer parent behavior.
Then this year.
The aritcle in the Denver has Cody Brookwell quoted as saying 'We talked about it' and "There is a time and place (to fight), and there are guys on this team willing to go with a guy. That's part of the game, and sometimes it needs to be dealt with."
You could see in the Firday game that DU was Jacked-up after getting thier arrrsses kicked in a fair way and they got very cheap in repsonse. Please note, I have no problem with a team standing up for themselves. Heck the Sioux have to do that often, but we don't do it in a cheap way.
Pioneers were pulling our players down by grabbing thier facemask from behind during play and didn't get calledh (how I have no idea), coming up behind our players and slamming repeaded cross checks in their backs during puck battles on the boards and constantly trying to break things down to a fight.
I had the feeling all of this was promoted by Gwoz.
...not to mention that he is the most histrionic coach I have ever seen.
He should go. IMHO
You should take a look at it from the 35,000 foot view. The Sioux aren't choirboys, nor are the Pioneers. These were two very good hockey teams battling it out in a jacked-up, WCHA playoff type atmosphere. The Sioux beat the crap out of DU last year in Grand Forks, and if you were a Pioneer this last weekend, you'd probably have wanted another chance to show UND than you won't be pushed around, so it shouldn't surprise anyone that DU got a little chippy when they got behind that far on Friday, especially with al the chirping than goes on down on the ice from both teams. I'm sure had DU gone up 8-3 on the Sioux, that we'd see similar chippines from the green and white. That's part of hockey. Having watched as much college hockey as I have over the last 30 years (like some of the old time Sioux fans on this board) is that the stuff we're seeing nowadays with little scrums and 'dasher dances' is total kindergarten in comparison to the days when Archie, Cary, Dacshysn and Co took on the Entire Badger Beer Garden...
And since Gwoz has won two national titles, so no one in Denver really minds the dasher dance too much.
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Wow, the author for the Post kinda made Gwoz look like an idiot after chopping that quote a little short.
The Rocky Mountain News hired a local Grand Forks writer for the story, electing not to send beat writer Pat Rooney, as the paper is likey to fold in a matter of weeks.
I would guess that the article's author was very likely your very own Patrick C. Miller.
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As a Denver fan, I find the Gwoz/Belding photos totally hilarious. The only problem I see with that is that most people over 35 don't know who Belding was, unless they had kids that liked "Saved by the Bell."
As for the DU 'tough talk' in the newspaper, I wouldn't read too much into it. It's all about self-respect. What would expect them to say? "Last year, we had the crap kicked out of us in Grand Forks, and we really look forward to rolling over and turtling again."...
I think DU and UND will be focused on playing hockey, as lot is at stake and suspensions aren't wanted at this time of year.
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Exceptions to rules can and will be made.
The NCAA is a group of college presidents who all know each other. What's a few ice hockey scholarships among friends?
We're not talking about letting a convicted murderer walk free, here.
I still don't quite understand your line of thinking. Why would DU ever want to be DIII when they are already the most successful non-football D-I athletic school in America?
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DU ranked 43 out of 320 D-I schools in the recent NACDA standings, #1 among schools without football and tops among all schools in Colorado and Wyoming, and also put 10 of its 17 D-I teams into the NCAA tournament last year. Sports Illustrated ranked DU #23 overall among all D-I schools, and with good new facilities, and a $23 million athletic Budget, DU tends to do very well in all sports it plays, with the exception of men's hoops ( a work in progress), all within 10 years of raising all sports to D-I. Not to mention DU's 80% graduation rate and 3.2 Athletic GPA.
Of course DU would like out the Sun Belt. I also love the idea of DU getting to play North Dakota in other sports, as the hockey rivalry is a great one. I hope something can be worked out, but wthout football, our options are limited, and I can't ever see DU offering football again, due to the cost it would take to do it well.
As for dropping to D-III, it won't happen. There aren't very many D-III opponents in the west, and DU is doing very well at the D-I level with the mix of sports we have. They would lose their scholarships, too, and with hockey as a revenue producer, no one is going to want to pay to see DU vs Gustavus Adolphus or St. Olaf.
The big problem for DU is that it has an East Coast Private school sports menu in a the west, where like-minded schools are rare.
Personally, I think DU's best fit is probably the WCC or the Patriot league, with other similar privates, but our geography makes that pretty tough...
Denver travels to REA.
in Men's Hockey
Posted
Happy to check in here to assure all of you that I'm still around, still quite ambulatory and looking forward to a great series between two of the best teams in the country this weekend.
As a Denver fan with a few miles on the tread, I can tell you that this Denver team is the probably the best offensive Denver team that I can remember, but the goaltending is the worst (.885 team saves pct.) since the days of Stephen Wagner in the late 1990s. That makes every weekend a bit of a rollercoaster ride for Pio fans. Just when you think the boys are cruising, you find your self cringing on every PK, awaiting the odd soft goal to puncture the mood and perhaps lead to catastrophe. Last weekend was somewhat encouraging, as the Pios hung 12 on the Mavs and Davis let in only 5 goals on the weekend (average goaltending), which is far more respectable than many weekends past, yet Omaha scored on 42% of its PPs, so much work to do. Davis (and Halyk before him) were also dealing with a lot of youth on the back end, and that means turnovers. I'd like think that with a full half season under their belts that the turnovers are in decline.
Having watched a good chunk of UND this year, I've been really impressed, especially on defense. Berry's gamble to basically replace the entire d-corps was a move I've never seen in all my years of college hockey fandom, and it has paid off with far more panache than I could have possibly imagined. Berry has blended the skills, roles and experience of guys who had never played together into a defense that has already grown into the top third of college defences, in front of a very experienced netminder in Persson, who never had that level of defense at Miami in front of him. Inserting a 5th year leader like Pyke to produce has he has, was really a master stroke, and watching a young guys like Livanage and Weibe step in and play like vets as freshmen bodes well. Offensively, those top 2 lines can score with anyone, and are especially strong on the right side, where Blake and Gaber are two of the best at what they do, both with and without the puck. If there is a vulnerability on this team, it likely is offensive depth, especially on the left side where the production is a shadow of what it is on the right.
I think this weekend will come down to three key areas:
1) UND's forecheck causing turnovers in the Denver Zone. If UND can do that efficiently and convert their chances, they've got a good chance to sweep. Denver's goaltending is often leaky. That's been the blueprint all year for those teams who have beaten Denver, including UND earlier this year. The forecheck not only causes turnovers, but disrupts DU's transition speed out of the d zone and forces DU to take penalties, where their PK has been brutal (#42) nationally at just 78%.
2) Denver's ability to get offensively production from 3rd line. Sure DU has a great top six, but where DU is perhaps most dangerous is getting production from the third line, which is why they average over five goals per game leading the nation in scoring. This is where Denver has a big edge on most teams, as few teams have this extra level production. Will be interesting to see how Berry matches up on this.
3) Denver's goaltending. Typically, if DU can keep opposition goals at three or below each night, the five-goal offense usually means DU will have a great chance of winning. I don't see DU dropping 10 goals on UND this weekend on the road, so my guess is that DU will need Davis to play exceptionally well, which is not something that DU has been able to count on.
All in all, this looks like a split weekend.