ND Pride
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Posts posted by ND Pride
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Here are some observations on the Grafton/RR Championship game and the 6 player controversy. I have watched the re-play a number of times and have asked myself the question, "What would I have done had I been a coach or a player on the bench and knew that my team had too many men on the ice?" I think the reasonable person (coach or player) would call a player off if they knew of the violation. Grafton had an advantage with the power play so why would anyone knowingly risk the loss of that advantage with their own violation (too many men) - especially in a game that is televised. As such, I discount anyone who suggests that Grafton coaches were aware of the violation. A reasonable person is not going to risk the advantage that they already have.
The fact that the violation was missed is unfortunate and ideally it should have never happened. There is no basis for defending that error. However, it does not absolutely follow that a team will score a goal because they have an advantage in player numbers. It is only natural for those on the short end of the outcome to attribute the score to the fact that an extra player was on the ice. Such a situation does not automatically mean that a team will always score. They may well have scored anyway if the extra player was not on the ice. Interestingly, at the point at which the goal was scored there were three players back near the blueline.
In any case, the lack of a call created, in the least, some adversity for Red River. They are an excellent team and they dug hard to prevail in the overtime and overcome that adversity. For that they deserve great credit. It is tough to be the favorite from the beginning of the season up to the last, and most important game, and then not win. Credit to both teams for a great game. Congrats to Grafton on their state championship.
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I have no horse in this race. I am neither from or rooted for either team. I loved that it was a great game played spiritedly by two quality opponents. I was at the game with my wife and did not notice the too many men on the ice infraction. We were aware something was wrong when the officials huddled for an extended period following the goal.
It is unfortunate that the officials missed the too many men on the ice infraction. As a HS official (in football and baseball) I can say we try to get every call correct, but we do miss things. I feel for the officials, it is a terrible error, but if none of the three of them saw the six men, they cannot go back and make such a call without being sure.
Let me pose some other questions. Ones that relates to the ethics of coaching, teaching or mentoring our young adults in sports, school and life and how that relates to the rest of their lives and how they then live those lives based on what they learn from their coaches, parents and other adults who influence them.
I do not know what the GPR players and coaches knew, but nobody seems to be asking this, so I will. With all the time that passed before the puck was finally dropped after the goal, at any time did the GPR coaching staff know or become aware they had scored with 6 men on the ice? And, if they did, why did they not bring that to the attention of the game officials themselves? I ask because I believe honorable people would have. This is not the same as whether someone committed a trip or an interference, where I would never expect a coach to intervene, as those are purely judgment calls. This is an instance where supervising adults, if they knew, could have corrected an obvious injustice and not have tainted the outcome. I believe if they knew and said nothing, it is sending a very poor message to our young people about the ethics of life. If they did not know, fine, we all just have to live with the officials' error, it happened, it's over, we move on. Everyone is putting this on the game officials, but there are other possibilities here that should not be overlooked.
Your points about the ethical issues, fairness, etc. as norms that should be upheld by coaches are well-taken. My question is this, in this particular game can a referee make a call that he did not see based on the observation of a coach of the team that made the infraction? From what I have read on this board so far, it seems that the coach could not have an impact on the ref. You state, that "..supervising adults, if they knew, could have corrected an obvious injustice and not have tainted the outcome." Again, can a ref make a call that they personally did not see, based on the observation of a supervising adult (coach)? I think the answer to that question is "no". If I am wrong on this please indicate this based on the rules of the game.
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ND Pride back for the long haul.....no facts this post?.......weird
Sorry about that - no facts this time. I will get to work on that. Watched Grafton and Bismarck as well as Red River and South tonight. Very entertaining games.
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LASTLY.....people predicting on this board, especially the ones that have RR winning 5-0...add an "after the first period" when typing in that absurd score...they'll win by 10 at least
What was the final spread in the score for the Red River game on Thursday?
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Nick Krebsbach was not cut but was put on the junior varsity at Minot. He is indeed a legitimate transfer. Irmen is spelled with an "e".
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This is all past. Nick Krebsbach went on to play a season for Wayne State. I was trying to find stats for his high school season(s) and could not find any.
Nick Krebsbach was one of the top forwards on the Red River team from the time that he enrolled. I do not have his stats handy but his points were not too far from the totals of Irmen and Potulny. If I remember correctly, the year that all three were sophomores Nick was about 10-15 points behind the totals of Ryan and Danny. Nick had 70 points in 108 games with the Bismarck Bobcats after graduating from Red River. He did play for a year or two at D-1 Wayne State and then returned to North Dakota to complete college.
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It is hard to consider Nick Krebsbach a transfer. If I am not mistaken, he was cut from Minot High before he went to GFRR.
Nick Krebsbach was not cut but was put on the junior varsity at Minot. He is indeed a legitimate transfer. Irmen is spelled with an "e".
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Speaking of junior hockey drafts ... The NAHL held their draft yesterday and only one North Dakota high school player was selected. Eric Herbel, 2007 ND Mr. Hockey, from Bottineau was taken by the Bismarck Bobcats. Here's the story from the Bismarck Tribune :
http://www.bismarcktribune.com/articles/20...ocal/133753.txt
The Forum listed the players tendered by the F/M Jets and they include North Dakota players Tyler Swanson of West Fargo and Tyler Klein of Fargo North. The Jets also tendered 5 Minnesota players and a forward from Omaha of the USHL.
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Does this mean that these two players are likely to be early deflections? Or not necessarily? Thanks.
From the standpoint of the USHL it means that the rights of these players are held by the USHL teams that drafted them. If they want to leave high school they would still, typically, have to perform well enough in the final tryout to merit a spot on the team. Given the quality of players drafted into the USHL in the early rounds one might expect that a late draft, as these two players experienced, might have some meaning after they finish high school, as opposed to the present. If a USHL team really wanted them now they most likely would have drafted them higher. I would expect that these players will be in high school hockey next year. On the other hand, they might also be drafted on May 22nd when the NAHL has their draft and with some of the NAHL teams being close to Grand Forks, it might be an option.
The meaning of some of these draft picks is often unclear. A couple of years ago the Lincoln Stars drafted Sidney Crosby when he was as Shattuck St. Mary's, where he played for one year. There was some speculation that he might want to stay in the U.S. and play college hockey. That was an extreme long shot as Sid (or "The Next One" as some called him) was expected to play for Rimouski Oceanic for a year or two and then on to the NHL. So, did Lincoln waste a draft pick or just roll the dice on a long shot? In any case, the meaning of these late drafts will most likely be unclear for a year or longer.
In brief, it is unlikely that these players will be early defections into the highly competitive USHL.
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I see that Ryan Laducer was drafted today by the Lincoln Stars of the USHL. It was in a late round. Alex Simonson was also picked as the final player in the draft.
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I can think of one: Dave Spehar.
Well, yeah, Spehar went to my wife's high school Duluth East. Since 1991, if you want to compare ND to Minn the names are Darby Hendrickson (Yes), Bonin (?), Checco (?), Crowley (Yes), Rasumusen (?), Spehar (No) Miskokvich (?), Pohl (yes), taffe (?), Martin (?), Sertich (no), Guyer (no). If I had my old copies of Let's Play Hockey I could answer the question as they list Minnesota players in the NHL but I tossed them a couple of months ago. Actually, this really points out how tough it is to make it in the NHL and that perhaps, the Mr. Hockey award is not that great of an indicator of success at the NHL level. Can anyone help out on some of these players?
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Does anyone know how many winners of the Mr. Hockey award in North Dakota have gone on to skate in the NHL?
Well, from the data that I have in front of me, which includes the names of all Mr. Hockey winners from 1991 to the present the answer would be none. Not sure why you are asking the question (e.g. are you interested in how many ND hockey players are in the NHL, or just focusing on the Mr. Hockey winner, maybe using this as a proxy measure for something, etc, etc). Being a small state, in terms of population and the number of hockey teams, it is not unusual for some North Dakota players to leave high school early for juniors. Many of those players would have been a Mr. Hockey and some of them have played games in the NHL (Ryan Potulny for one and Danny Irmen is another). Minnesota has a strong high school hockey culture and many of the top end players stay and plan through their senior year - and win the Mr. Hockey award. On the Minnesota side, the interesting question would be (given the large number of players who stay and play high school hockey, and the high quality of the players) how many Minnesota Mr. Hockey winners have not played in the NHL.
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Congrats to the team, coaches, and parents on a job well done.
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Question:
These buildings were cheaper to purchase (downtown) than to build on campus. However, they won't be on the NDSU steam plant system which means their own heating systems (and separate heating costs). And they'll be away from primary campus services (increased travel time for plant services, campus mail, etc.).
What are the long-term costs of ownership of these cheap-to-buy downtown buildings relative to having built (a more costly up front) on-campus facility?
The heating system in the downtown buildings may well be more efficient than the those on most college campuses based on the complaints I have heard from several colleges/universities. Also, NDSU already has a presence downtown with their Architecture program so any travel time (I think it takes 4-5 minutes to get downtown) is minimal and there would be economies of scale with another set of buildings downtown in terms of plant services and campus mail. So expanding in the downtown area would add some new economies.
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On average, yes.
I think what you are saying is mean.
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I think it is time to let the 2007 Mr. Hockey issue go. The award certainly has not led to a widespread knowledge of how to spell his name (Herbel). Let's move on to other issues. For example, the Team North Dakota tryouts are coming up this month. Does anyone have a read on who will be trying out. The team will be in the top pool again based on their consistent performance over the past few years. Top pool placement provides a team with favorable game times and that makes it easier for the USHL, NAHL, etc scouts to see the players. There were plenty of scouts last year so any player that has post high school aspirations will get a good look at the Showcase.
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Brandon Askew is pursuing becoming a golfer on the PGA tour (without much success I must ad) Played for the Ice Sharks tell he hurt his shoulder. Then played golf at UNLV and TCU throughout college
Although I am not associated with any of the Fargo South programs I do know a few things that I can share about Brandon Askew. He moved from the North side of Fargo to the South side before squirts. He was a star player throughout his tenure with the Fargo Flyers. Dean Wilson had him play varsity as a 9th grader and he was very successful. He was the scoring leader in the East and in the state for his senior year (1999-2000) and did win Mr. Hockey. Given the schedule that South played in those days he put up some great numbers against North Dakota and Minnesota competition. I remember that he had about 56 points which is equivalent to a higher point total today as the teams can play more games and the extension of periods to 17 minutes adds the equivalence of about 3 and 1/2 more games to the schedule. He did play after the high school season in 2000 with the Ice Sharks but took a D-1 golf scholarship over Junior A hockey in the fall of 2000. He was an outstanding player and would have had a lot of success in juniors and beyond. He is currently pursuing a professional career in golf. His father is Mark Askew, a physician at Orthopedic Associates of Fargo. The elder Askew was an outstanding football player at the D-II level.
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I have never seen a UND or NDSU soccer game on tv nor a high school game.
Neither have I. The only sports you see on TV that are UND or NDSU would be the major sports. Soccer is not a major sport on those campuses. High school soccer games have been televised in other states where the sport is more developed. Actually, though I think there have been a couple of high school games on local access TV in North Dakota. If you don't like the sport that's fine - no need to bash it. Plenty of great hockey players have participated in the game including a number of Mr. Hockey winners in North Dakota as well as a number of North Dakota high school players who have gone on to play D-I hockey.
No need to try and demean kids from your own area (I assume you are from Grand Forks) who have played the game and have been successful in hockey.
Just as a sampling, Jacques Lamoureux played soccer for Central, McIntyre, and Irmen (Red River) also played. Brian Lee of the Sioux played youth soccer. There are many more (e.g. Ryan Kraft, etc).
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yeah, i don't know. I just know that he came back to ND after playing at some school in Nebraska for his senior year. My dad knows his mom and was telling me about this.
Well, good luck to him whatever he decides.
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hockey is a tough sport. soccer is qoute unqoute girls sport. Hockey, u neeed to be tough to play and drink keystone.
Very cute talk. You have obviously never played in a physical soccer match.
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soccer? who cares about soccer? never ever will that be on tv.
Well, the soccer topic was raised on this board so I just provided some information. Soccer is the fastest growing sport in the youth sports market. Soccer is an excellent conditioning activity for hockey and shares many of the same characteristics - creative play, quickness, 2 v 1, 3 v 2 combinations, etc. Many European players have used soccer as an excellent cross-training experience. Soccer may not be on TV in North Dakota but it already is in other states. It is a well known fact, among competent hockey coaches and trainers, that soccer has a lot to offer as a complementary sport. In summary, if you are interested in hockey development you should consider soccer as a sport.
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just thought I would mention to you all that Herbel wants to come to UND for college after he graduates. He sounds like maybe a good walk-on player?
If he is serious about hockey I would recommend that he try out for Team North Dakota and if he matches up well in the Showcase he will be drafted in the NAHL/USHL or both or at least get some invitations to junior A tryouts. Most kids, even top players in North Dakota and Minnesota are not strong enough, or developed sufficiently to play at a WCHA school straight out of high school. Sounds as though he needs an advisor who could help him sort out the options for his hockey career post-high school.
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I dont remember the last time a Central team has won a state soccer tournament, but I think every school in the state likes to see south lose...
It is not that big of a deal but just for the record Central has never won a state championship in Soccer. In fact, from 1995 to 2005 they have only been in the state tournament once (1999) and did not place in the top 6. Red River won a state soccer title in 2002 and again in 2005. This year (2006) Central did make it to state and had their highest finish (2nd). Historically they have had one of the weaker programs in the state.
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Thanks for the post so the assumption of the East boys leading the Showcase team didnt lead to them playing at the next level. Interesting!!
Of course, as has already been stated, some of the Eastern players received bids to play at the next level before the Showcase tryouts and were consequently not eligible to try out for the team per Showcase rules. If you really want to make some sort of valid analytical conclusion about region of the state and the number of players going to juniors you would have to track kids from their sophomore, junior and senior years - not just senior, if you want the complete picture. For example, the Eastern kids who leave high school hockey early like Mario Lamoureux, as well as Western kids such as Jordan Willert, would have to be factored into the analysis. And then of course, you have western kids who leave the west to play in the East (Krebsbach, McBain, etc). Typically Eastern kids do not move to the West. All in all it is great that both parts of the state are represented at the next level.
www.northdakotapreps.com
in Non-collegiate sports
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You should be banned for that spelling error.