UNDhockey22 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 OK, i'll give it to you that you didn't state directly that he was a bad player, although i believe this was your quote ""Until you can make a claim that is anywhere near realistic, please consider keeping it to yourself, that way people won't question your thought process." But when someone says he merely thinks that he should be considered one of the best players in the state, and you saying your quote as stated above, what else does that say. It may not be implying that he is terrible, but it certainly doesn't imply anthing positive. Also I will agree the gap may be closing a bit, but not very much looking at the rosters of the current D1 teams the only big contributer of my Knowledge that is making a splash is the goalie from Maine, who I believed played with the NAHL in texas. So while it may be closing it appears that when recruiting from juniors most college coaches still feel that the USHL is the better of the two leagues. As stated in one of my above posts I said only the USHL or D1, I didn't include NAHL, and as you listed above the number in the USHL or D1 is 5 and no more. And as stated previously he was on a select team and played midgets last year, and is being recruited by the bobcats i believe. This means that he is in the same category skill wise as most of the players last year and even the mr. hockey winner because they will probably all wind up in the same league. I will agree you didn't say he was bad, but just because you didn't say it, doesn't mean that the quote i had from you earlier, doesn't imply it am i right? I never implied Herbel was a bad player. That was not the case at all. I implied he is not near the same level as the best player in the state, which was the post that I replied to. Had the post said Eric Herbel may be one of the best players in the state, I would have nothing to say at all. The USHL has been the dominant Jr. league in the United States for a long time. However, when it comes to comparing the two leagues I think you're still living in 1990's and early 2000's. Recently the FM Jets played the NTDP to a score of 5-1 with an empty net goal being scored on them in the final seconds of the game. So I'm going to assume USA would not have scored again if not for the empty net. The score of the game was 4-1 then. The night before that NTDP lost to UND by a score of 5-4 in overtime. A game that was mostly dominated by the USA. Team USA beat Lake Superior State to a similar score of that of the Jets as it was 3-1. My point is the NAHL is not as far off the USHL as you may think. More and more players from the NAHL are being recruited to play for bigger name D-1 schools. Matt Moreland apparently had a roster spot with UND but was ineligible due to academic reasons (too many credits, something of that nature). Robby Phillip of the FM Jets is actively recruited to play for UND, and I believe was told it was best for him to play with the Jets instead of the USHL team that drafted him and gaurenteed him a spot on the second line. Brian Shack who plays for arguably the best team in college hockey today played for Southern Minnesota in the NAHL last season. For now, the USHL is still the most elite Jr. league in America. That is why I listed the players in the NAHL along with those in the USHL, because sometimes a player may transfer from the NAHL to the USHL after a season of NAHL play (Rody Selk, Ryan Cramer). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warthog Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 [ I never implied Herbel was a bad player. That was not the case at all. I implied he is not near the same level as the best player in the state, which was the post that I replied to. Had the post said Eric Herbel may be one of the best players in the state, I would have nothing to say at all.] UNDhockey22, What criteria do you use when determining the skill level of hockey player in the state? Have you seen Eric Herbel play? If not, How can you say he is not at the same level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDhockey22 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 [ I never implied Herbel was a bad player. That was not the case at all. I implied he is not near the same level as the best player in the state, which was the post that I replied to. Had the post said Eric Herbel may be one of the best players in the state, I would have nothing to say at all.] UNDhockey22, What criteria do you use when determining the skill level of hockey player in the state? Have you seen Eric Herbel play? If not, How can you say he is not at the same level? Common knowledge is what I use. How many players are recruited to play Division one hockey while they are still in high school in North Dakota? Not very many. This year I have only heard of two. Last year, I do not believe any players were highly recruited to play D-1 while still in high school. Maybe Paul Weisgarber and Erick Galt were, but I have not heard of such things. The point is, if I have heard from multiple sources there is a player in North Dakota being recruited to play for one of the best college hockey teams in the nation, it is going to lead me to believe that there are no other players in the state who are on his level at this point in time. I was told in a previous post that Herbel has played on various select teams in the past. If that is the case, that is another reason for me to believe he is not on the same level of the best player in the state. Why you ask? Because to my knowledge he was never chosen to attend the National Select festival. It would be just like if three years ago someone associated with the Rimouski Oceanic were to say that Sidney Crosby is better than Jake Marto, without yet seeing Marto play (This was never said, just an example). Although they have not seen Marto play, the play of Crosby was so spectacular and he was so highly regarded by scouts that it was apparent that Crosby is in fact the better player. Many of the conclusions I draw are because of the intensity a player is being scouted. There are many players who are recruited to play in the NAHL and never make it or do not crack the roster. This is still not an attack on Herbel, just a fact. Andrew Peterson and Nick Klenow were both recruited to play in the NAHL and neither player was able to prove themselves. Not a knock on them either. But when a player is recruited by various teams, in various leagues it is usually obvious that they will have some sort of success at the next level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SportsDoc Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 If you would search this site for everyone of my posts, rarely, if ever have I said a player is bad. Also, by reading some of those posts I have written you would understand that everything you have said in your previous post are things that I have actually already stated myself, or it would be apparent that there are things I already know. I believe Fargo South and Red River have multiple good players on their team. However, there are good players around the state. Other players I have mentioned in other posts include Michael Hillman, Zach Welding, Kyle Everson, Tanner Bombenger, Tyler Klein, Alex Simonson, Nathan Stremick and maybe others. I believe the best player in the state is probably Danny Wurden. Not because he plays for Fargo South. But because he had a great Elite League campaign, attended National Select festivals, and is recruited by USHL, NAHL, and WCHA teams. I believe the post about Herbel said "I believe Herbel is as good as any player in the state". Not that he should be considered one of the top players in the state (which may be true). You claim that I said Mr. Herbel was bad because he is on a bad team. If you can find in anyone of my posts where I said that you can write me a personal message with your name and address and I will send you $500 cash. I never said Herbel was a bad player. I said it was unrealistic to believe he is an equal player to the best player in the state. The gap between the USHL and NAHL is narrowing because players in the NAHL are generally older than those in the USHL. The theory there is a stronger maybe more matured NAHL team would be able to keep up with they younger more skilled USHL guys. Is this true? Maybe. The reason for that is I'm going to include NAHL players in the "I would be surprised if the number is greater than 5" statement you made. Jordan Willert (Tri-City Storm USHL) Mario Lamoureux (Tri-City Storm USHL) Paul Weisgarber (Waterloo Blackhawks USHL) Andy Dittus (Green Bay USHL) Tyler Jundt (Green Bay USHL) Grant Larson (FM Jets NAHL) Marc Mihulka (FM Jets NAHL) Marc Harrie (FM Jets NAHL) Alex Olson (Bismarck NAHL) Parker Metz (Senior in high school, plays before and after with FM Jets NAHL) That's ten players who played High School hockey in North Dakota last year, or were eligible to play High School hockey in North Dakota but opted to play elsewhere. Surprised? Next time you want to debate things I did or in this case did not say do some research on things I have actually said in this message board. I, for one, will not put the NAHL in the same catagory as the USHL. I do not think it is even close the number of WCHA, Hockey East or CCHA scholorship players currently on their rosters from the USHL compared to the NAHL. Also, Junior Hockey is a business. The owners are trying to make money by putting butts in the seats, so there is always a splattering of "local" talent to draw the fans. The rub is to mix that with the talent level necessary to win. Part of what that means is teams like F/M and Bismarck need some "locals" from ND to help attendance that might not otherwise be on those teams, so it might well skew your numbers even more, compared to USHL numbers where ND players are there strictly because of their talent level. My point is there are probably bubble players on the rosters of F/M and Bismarck from ND (or western Mn.). Maybe not, but I would suspect from the business side, there is. In the USHL that player would be from close to the team's home, if he's around at all. That means, in reality, there are 5 ND players from last year's class playing top notch, D-I recruited, Junior Hockey. You can look at it however you want, that is how I look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxhockey78 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 U keep talking and talking on here with no answer to who this player is and what college is looking at him. Please enlighten us with your knowledgeable answers please...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pukstan Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 I, for one, will not put the NAHL in the same catagory as the USHL. I do not think it is even close the number of WCHA, Hockey East or CCHA scholorship players currently on their rosters from the USHL compared to the NAHL. Also, Junior Hockey is a business. The owners are trying to make money by putting butts in the seats, so there is always a splattering of "local" talent to draw the fans. The rub is to mix that with the talent level necessary to win. Part of what that means is teams like F/M and Bismarck need some "locals" from ND to help attendance that might not otherwise be on those teams, so it might well skew your numbers even more, compared to USHL numbers where ND players are there strictly because of their talent level. My point is there are probably bubble players on the rosters of F/M and Bismarck from ND (or western Mn.). Maybe not, but I would suspect from the business side, there is. In the USHL that player would be from close to the team's home, if he's around at all. That means, in reality, there are 5 ND players from last year's class playing top notch, D-I recruited, Junior Hockey. You can look at it however you want, that is how I look at it. This is a list of former NAHL players recruited to plat college hockey( not all are Div.1) The USHL is the biggest pipeline to college hockey. Although the NAHL is sending more and more players each season. Billings Jeff Christiansen Union 06 Billings Matt Becker Airforce 06 Bismarck Jacques Lamoureux Airforce 06 Bismarck Tim Krystosek Airforce 07 Bismarck Eric Kattelus Michigan Tech 07 Bozeman Ryan Bunger Michigan Tech 06 Bozeman Josh Heidinger Canisius 06 Bozeman Chris Mckelvie Bemidji 06 Bozeman Brett Nylander Airforce 06 Bozeman Brian Moore Bowling Green 06 Bozeman Matt Dalton Bemidji 07 Bozeman Graham McManamin Bemidji 06 Bozeman Pete Fylling St. Norberts 06 Cleveland Fairbanks Fargo Moorhead Kai Kantola Bowling Green 06 Fargo Moorhead Phil Fox Northern Michigan 06 Fargo Moorhead Ryan Cramer Bemidji 07 Helena Mahoning Valley Chris Fairbanks Alambama Huntsville 07 Mahoning Valley Ryan Zapolski Mercyhurst College 07 Mahoning Valley Nathan Longpre Robert Morris 07 Minnesota Chris Johnson Uconn 06 North Iowa Santa Fe Brandon Johnson Airforce 06 Santa Fe Alex Arnason St Thomas 06 Santa Fe Phil Greer Bowling Green 06 Santa Fe Andy Gevorkyan AIC 06 Santa Fe Corey Stark Superior 06 Santa Fe Brandon Vossberg Denver 06 Santa Fe Brant Marple Northern Michigan 06 Santa Fe Anthony Bohn Saint Mary's 06 Southern Minnesota Jason Wiley Mankato 06 Springfield Chris Conway Stevens Points 06 Springfield David Nicoletti Alabama 06 Springfield Paul Forselius Salve Regina 06 Texarkana Riley Gill Western Michigan 06 Texarkana Casey Haines Ferris State 06 Texarkana Pat Knowlton Army 06 Texarkana Pat Maroon Ferris State 06 Texarkana Jason Weeks Canisius 06 Texarkana Anthony Becker Canisius 07 Texarkana Justin Johnson Michigan State 06 Texarkana Aaron Lewicki Ferris State 06 Texas Devin Stonehouse Canisius 06 Traverse City USDTP Wasilla Wichita Falls Chris Ochoa Uconn 06 NAHL 2004-05 College Commitment List Team First Last College Year Alpena Jeremy Barber Robert Morris 05 Alpena Jake Hovick West Point 05 Alpena Bobby Phillips Mercyhurst 05 Alpena Paul Scalici Bentley College 05 Alpena Kaleigh Schrock Neuman College 05 Billings Jon Anderson UConn 05 Billings Greg Flynn Air Force 05 Billings Brian Kaufman Miami University 05 Billings Mike Mayra Air Force 05 Billings Mike Mayra Air Force 05 Billings Matt Palmer Brown 05 Bismarck Nick Bydal Stevens Point 05 Bismarck Matt Koenig Stout 05 Bismarck Clay Rehm St. Thomas 05 Bismarck Nick Schneider UConn 05 Bismarck Aaron Walski North Dakota 05 Bozeman Brett Beckfeld Stevens Point 05 Bozeman Nick Biondo Plattsburgh 05 Bozeman Ross Johnson River Falls 05 Bozeman Josh Kassel Army 05 Bozeman Bill Leahy Army 05 Bozeman Zack McKelvie Army 05 Bozeman Josh Meyers River Falls 05 Bozeman Brett Nylander Air Force 06 Bozeman Jason Woll Milwaukee 05 Central Texas Nick Larson AIC 05 Cleveland Nick Biondo Ohio State 05 Cleveland Jacob Cepis Bowling Green 05 Cleveland Lukas DeLorenzo Penn State 05 Cleveland Kirk Golden Hobart College 05 Cleveland Bob Helminen Northern Michigan 05 Cleveland Kurt Kivisto Michigan State 05 Cleveland Patrick Schafer Ohio State 05 Cleveland Matt Shouneyia Michigan State 05 Cleveland Steve Silver Western Michigan 05 Fairbanks Matt Jolly Alaska - Anchorage 05 Fairbanks Jared Kaufmann Nebraska - Omaha 05 Fairbanks Mike Phillipich Air Force 05 Fargo Moorhead Todd Alexander North Dakota 05 Fargo Moorhead Tom Dickhudt Bentley College 05 Fargo Moorhead Lance Malark UConn 05 Fargo Moorhead Chris Myhro UConn 05 Fargo Moorhead Brent Olson Air Force 05 Fargo Moorhead Dain Prewitt Bentley College 05 Helena Doug Gebbie Utica 05 Helena Eric Griffin AIC 05 Helena Brandon Marino Bemidji State 05 Helena Cory Mozak River Falls 05 Helena Nate Rein Superior 05 Helena Keith Roder AIC 05 Helena Ryan Sullivan Finlandia University 05 Helena Travis Whitehead Superior 05 Helena Matt Woodward AIC 05 Kewadin Indians Marty Gurnoe Lake State 05 Kewadin Indians Ray Kaunisto Northern Michigan 06 Minnesota Josh Frider Air Force 05 Minnesota Ryan Hawkins UConn 05 Minnesota Tim Manthly Army 05 Santa Fe Brendon Bayers U Conn 05 Santa Fe Luke Buetow Canisius College 05 Santa Fe Chris Carlson Robert Morris 05 Santa Fe Andrew Goberstein Bentley College 05 Santa Fe Eric Dahlberg UConn 05 Santa Fe Ryan Hatch Canisius College 05 Santa Fe Andrew Johnson Bentley College 05 Santa Fe Bryan Plaszcz Maine 05 Spring Mo Sean Erickson UConn 05 Spring Mo Matt Szypura River Falls 05 Spring Mo Derek Kitti Michigan Tech 05 Springfield IL Andy Cankar Stevens Point 05 Springfield IL Jeff Gumear Bentley College 05 Springfield IL Chris Johnson Dartmouth 05 Springfield IL Ryan Klusendorf Canisius College 05 Springfield IL Wes Russel Quinnipiac College 05 Springfield IL Alex Seminov Merrimack University 05 Springfield IL Matt Stendahl Stevens Point 05 Texarkana Andrew Broughton Curry College 05 Texarkana Pat Galivan Western Michigan 05 Texarkana Eric Hansen River Falls 05 Texarkana Jake Hanson Marion College 05 Texarkana Ryan Olson Finlandia University 05 Texarkana Matt Taurmina Providence 05 Texas Ben Bishop Maine 05 Texas Brad Cooper Providence 05 Texas Matt Krug Wayne State 05 Texas Tyler Ludwig Western Michigan 05 Texas Nick Mazzolini Providence 05 Texas Austin Miller Providence 05 Texas Justin Liutf Bowling Green 05 Texas Tom Train Alabama - Huntsville 05 Texas Derek Punches Wayne State 05 USDTP Jason Bailey Michigan 05 USDTP Brett Bennett Boston University 06 USDTP Michael Carmen Minnesota 06 USDTP Dan Fardig Michigan 05 USDTP Jimmy Fraser Harvard 05 USDTP Jeff Frazee Minnesota 05 USDTP Brandon Gentile Michigan State 05 USDTP Nathan Gerbe Boston College 05 USDTP David Inman Yale 06 USDTP Jack Johnson Michigan 05 USDTP Erik Johnson Minnesota 05 USDTP Zach Jones North Dakota 05 USDTP Phil Kessel Minnesota 05 USDTP Jason Lawrence Boston University 05 USDTP Kyle Lawson Notre Dame 05 USDTP Zach Macvoy Michigan 05 USDTP Jamie McBain Wisconsin 06 USDTP Justin Mercier Miami University 05 USDTP Mark Mitera Michigan 05 USDTP Peter Mueller Minnesota 06 USDTP Jack Skille Wisconsin 05 USDTP Greg Squires Boston University 06 USDTP Ryan Stoa Minnesota 05 USDTP Brian Strait Boston University 06 USDTP Chris Summers Michigan 06 USDTP Bill Sweat Colorado College 06 USDTP Andreas Valssopoulos Colorado College 05 Wichita Falls Dan Dileo Cornell 05 Wichita Falls Kevin Huck Minnesota 05 Wichita Falls Nick Klaren Stout 05 Wichita Falls Jack Wogemuth Stout 05 Wichita Falls Derek Hansberry Stout 05 Wichita Falls Evan Byers Eau Claire 05 Wichita Falls Andy Roberts St. Mary's 05 Wichita Falls Dave Lewendowski Wentworth 05 Wichita Falls Brent Sarcone RIT 05 Youngstown Anthony Canzoneri Bentley College 05 Youngstown Evan Case Ferris State 05 Youngstown Andrew Fiore Marian College 05 Youngstown Rob Rassey Holy Cross 05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDhockey22 Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 U keep talking and talking on here with no answer to who this player is and what college is looking at him. Please enlighten us with your knowledgeable answers please...lol I have said two or three times that Danny Wurden is being recruited by UND. Maybe if you would read my posts rather than critique what you disagree with you would learn something. SportsDoc- The NAHL is known for being a league for older players, while the USHL is for younger players, with more potential. The NAHL is narrowing the gap in the two leagues because the USHL is taking players younger and younger. The older, maybe stronger players in the NAHL will be able to combat the skill of the younger USHL guys in some cases. Politics does play a role in Jr. A hockey. But in the case of the players from North Dakota making NAHL teams because of the team is trying to draw fans (I think that is the point you are trying to make) does not stick. Marc Mihulka is having a great season as far as a rookie goes with 8 goals and 7 assists. He has played in 32 games. Marc Harrie was having a very good start to his Jr. career before being injured, he has 6 points in 8 games this season. Grant Larson is the only player who did not produce to expectation although he was good enough to appear in 21 games this year. The fact of the matter is that NAHL players and the NAHL in general is increasing its talent level dramatically. Many players who are in the NAHL are good enough to play in the USHL but are passed over for a player who is younger, with the same talent level. Kai Kantola of the FM Jets was placed on the NHL central scouting list last season, the only player in the NAHL on that list. I believe this is a sign of things to come. With more and more NAHL players recruited to play at the division one level I believe it is only reasonable to consider that league "top notch hockey". The difference between many USHL players and NAHL players is minimal. I could go on and on naming players who started in the NAHL and moved on to the USHL or started in the USHL and came back to NAHL. Phil Fox of the FM Jets started last year in the USHL notching 5 points in 5 games, and still with that success he decided to come back and play with Fargo of the NAHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiouxy Posted January 9, 2007 Author Share Posted January 9, 2007 Top scoring seniors in the state half way through the season. Eric Herbel(BOT) F Sr. 12GP 22G 13A 35P Zach Miller(GPR) F Sr. 12GP 13G 15A 28P Jake McDougall(FSH) F Sr. 11GP 12G 14A 26P Danny Wurden(FSH) D Sr. 11GP 8G 17A 25P Kyle Everson(DL) F Sr. 12GP 14G 11A 25P Zach Welding(JAM) F Sr. 11GP 13G 10A 23P Tanner Bombenger(FNH) F Sr. 13GP 15G 7A 22P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SportsDoc Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 This is a list of former NAHL players recruited to plat college hockey( not all are Div.1) The USHL is the biggest pipeline to college hockey. Although the NAHL is sending more and more players each season. Billings Jeff Christiansen Union 06 Billings Matt Becker Airforce 06 Bismarck Jacques Lamoureux Airforce 06 Bismarck Tim Krystosek Airforce 07 Bismarck Eric Kattelus Michigan Tech 07 Bozeman Ryan Bunger Michigan Tech 06 Bozeman Josh Heidinger Canisius 06 Bozeman Chris Mckelvie Bemidji 06 Bozeman Brett Nylander Airforce 06 Bozeman Brian Moore Bowling Green 06 Bozeman Matt Dalton Bemidji 07 Bozeman Graham McManamin Bemidji 06 Bozeman Pete Fylling St. Norberts 06 Cleveland Fairbanks Fargo Moorhead Kai Kantola Bowling Green 06 Fargo Moorhead Phil Fox Northern Michigan 06 Fargo Moorhead Ryan Cramer Bemidji 07 Helena Mahoning Valley Chris Fairbanks Alambama Huntsville 07 Mahoning Valley Ryan Zapolski Mercyhurst College 07 Mahoning Valley Nathan Longpre Robert Morris 07 Minnesota Chris Johnson Uconn 06 North Iowa Santa Fe Brandon Johnson Airforce 06 Santa Fe Alex Arnason St Thomas 06 Santa Fe Phil Greer Bowling Green 06 Santa Fe Andy Gevorkyan AIC 06 Santa Fe Corey Stark Superior 06 Santa Fe Brandon Vossberg Denver 06 Santa Fe Brant Marple Northern Michigan 06 Santa Fe Anthony Bohn Saint Mary's 06 Southern Minnesota Jason Wiley Mankato 06 Springfield Chris Conway Stevens Points 06 Springfield David Nicoletti Alabama 06 Springfield Paul Forselius Salve Regina 06 Texarkana Riley Gill Western Michigan 06 Texarkana Casey Haines Ferris State 06 Texarkana Pat Knowlton Army 06 Texarkana Pat Maroon Ferris State 06 Texarkana Jason Weeks Canisius 06 Texarkana Anthony Becker Canisius 07 Texarkana Justin Johnson Michigan State 06 Texarkana Aaron Lewicki Ferris State 06 Texas Devin Stonehouse Canisius 06 Traverse City USDTP Wasilla Wichita Falls Chris Ochoa Uconn 06 NAHL 2004-05 College Commitment List Team First Last College Year Alpena Jeremy Barber Robert Morris 05 Alpena Jake Hovick West Point 05 Alpena Bobby Phillips Mercyhurst 05 Alpena Paul Scalici Bentley College 05 Alpena Kaleigh Schrock Neuman College 05 Billings Jon Anderson UConn 05 Billings Greg Flynn Air Force 05 Billings Brian Kaufman Miami University 05 Billings Mike Mayra Air Force 05 Billings Mike Mayra Air Force 05 Billings Matt Palmer Brown 05 Bismarck Nick Bydal Stevens Point 05 Bismarck Matt Koenig Stout 05 Bismarck Clay Rehm St. Thomas 05 Bismarck Nick Schneider UConn 05 Bismarck Aaron Walski North Dakota 05 Bozeman Brett Beckfeld Stevens Point 05 Bozeman Nick Biondo Plattsburgh 05 Bozeman Ross Johnson River Falls 05 Bozeman Josh Kassel Army 05 Bozeman Bill Leahy Army 05 Bozeman Zack McKelvie Army 05 Bozeman Josh Meyers River Falls 05 Bozeman Brett Nylander Air Force 06 Bozeman Jason Woll Milwaukee 05 Central Texas Nick Larson AIC 05 Cleveland Nick Biondo Ohio State 05 Cleveland Jacob Cepis Bowling Green 05 Cleveland Lukas DeLorenzo Penn State 05 Cleveland Kirk Golden Hobart College 05 Cleveland Bob Helminen Northern Michigan 05 Cleveland Kurt Kivisto Michigan State 05 Cleveland Patrick Schafer Ohio State 05 Cleveland Matt Shouneyia Michigan State 05 Cleveland Steve Silver Western Michigan 05 Fairbanks Matt Jolly Alaska - Anchorage 05 Fairbanks Jared Kaufmann Nebraska - Omaha 05 Fairbanks Mike Phillipich Air Force 05 Fargo Moorhead Todd Alexander North Dakota 05 Fargo Moorhead Tom Dickhudt Bentley College 05 Fargo Moorhead Lance Malark UConn 05 Fargo Moorhead Chris Myhro UConn 05 Fargo Moorhead Brent Olson Air Force 05 Fargo Moorhead Dain Prewitt Bentley College 05 Helena Doug Gebbie Utica 05 Helena Eric Griffin AIC 05 Helena Brandon Marino Bemidji State 05 Helena Cory Mozak River Falls 05 Helena Nate Rein Superior 05 Helena Keith Roder AIC 05 Helena Ryan Sullivan Finlandia University 05 Helena Travis Whitehead Superior 05 Helena Matt Woodward AIC 05 Kewadin Indians Marty Gurnoe Lake State 05 Kewadin Indians Ray Kaunisto Northern Michigan 06 Minnesota Josh Frider Air Force 05 Minnesota Ryan Hawkins UConn 05 Minnesota Tim Manthly Army 05 Santa Fe Brendon Bayers U Conn 05 Santa Fe Luke Buetow Canisius College 05 Santa Fe Chris Carlson Robert Morris 05 Santa Fe Andrew Goberstein Bentley College 05 Santa Fe Eric Dahlberg UConn 05 Santa Fe Ryan Hatch Canisius College 05 Santa Fe Andrew Johnson Bentley College 05 Santa Fe Bryan Plaszcz Maine 05 Spring Mo Sean Erickson UConn 05 Spring Mo Matt Szypura River Falls 05 Spring Mo Derek Kitti Michigan Tech 05 Springfield IL Andy Cankar Stevens Point 05 Springfield IL Jeff Gumear Bentley College 05 Springfield IL Chris Johnson Dartmouth 05 Springfield IL Ryan Klusendorf Canisius College 05 Springfield IL Wes Russel Quinnipiac College 05 Springfield IL Alex Seminov Merrimack University 05 Springfield IL Matt Stendahl Stevens Point 05 Texarkana Andrew Broughton Curry College 05 Texarkana Pat Galivan Western Michigan 05 Texarkana Eric Hansen River Falls 05 Texarkana Jake Hanson Marion College 05 Texarkana Ryan Olson Finlandia University 05 Texarkana Matt Taurmina Providence 05 Texas Ben Bishop Maine 05 Texas Brad Cooper Providence 05 Texas Matt Krug Wayne State 05 Texas Tyler Ludwig Western Michigan 05 Texas Nick Mazzolini Providence 05 Texas Austin Miller Providence 05 Texas Justin Liutf Bowling Green 05 Texas Tom Train Alabama - Huntsville 05 Texas Derek Punches Wayne State 05 USDTP Jason Bailey Michigan 05 USDTP Brett Bennett Boston University 06 USDTP Michael Carmen Minnesota 06 USDTP Dan Fardig Michigan 05 USDTP Jimmy Fraser Harvard 05 USDTP Jeff Frazee Minnesota 05 USDTP Brandon Gentile Michigan State 05 USDTP Nathan Gerbe Boston College 05 USDTP David Inman Yale 06 USDTP Jack Johnson Michigan 05 USDTP Erik Johnson Minnesota 05 USDTP Zach Jones North Dakota 05 USDTP Phil Kessel Minnesota 05 USDTP Jason Lawrence Boston University 05 USDTP Kyle Lawson Notre Dame 05 USDTP Zach Macvoy Michigan 05 USDTP Jamie McBain Wisconsin 06 USDTP Justin Mercier Miami University 05 USDTP Mark Mitera Michigan 05 USDTP Peter Mueller Minnesota 06 USDTP Jack Skille Wisconsin 05 USDTP Greg Squires Boston University 06 USDTP Ryan Stoa Minnesota 05 USDTP Brian Strait Boston University 06 USDTP Chris Summers Michigan 06 USDTP Bill Sweat Colorado College 06 USDTP Andreas Valssopoulos Colorado College 05 Wichita Falls Dan Dileo Cornell 05 Wichita Falls Kevin Huck Minnesota 05 Wichita Falls Nick Klaren Stout 05 Wichita Falls Jack Wogemuth Stout 05 Wichita Falls Derek Hansberry Stout 05 Wichita Falls Evan Byers Eau Claire 05 Wichita Falls Andy Roberts St. Mary's 05 Wichita Falls Dave Lewendowski Wentworth 05 Wichita Falls Brent Sarcone RIT 05 Youngstown Anthony Canzoneri Bentley College 05 Youngstown Evan Case Ferris State 05 Youngstown Andrew Fiore Marian College 05 Youngstown Rob Rassey Holy Cross 05 The length of the list of players is impressive. The schools, for the most part, are anything but. And nice try putting the National Development team of 16 year olds on there! Must be a great league if USA Hockey moves their players out at 17! Take out the NDT players and the list is long and unimpressive. Will it improve? Maybe, but no for sures on that. Seems to me some of you who slam any posts that praise the West in HS hockey, go to great (and very similar arguements) lengths to uplift the NAHL. Go back and substitute "West" for NAHL and "East" for USHL and I bet you see some of your posts differently. As for an individual player moving from the USHL to the NAHL, could be lots of reasons. Homesick, misses friends, misses girlfriend, doesn't like being out of their "comfort" zone away from home, all of the above. I don't see Sioux/Gopher HS recruits who are not ready for UND or Minnesota being told to play in the NAHL for a year or two. Quite the opposite, they are sent to the USHL to become D-I ready. 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UNDhockey22 Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 The length of the list of players is impressive. The schools, for the most part, are anything but. And nice try putting the National Development team of 16 year olds on there! Must be a great league if USA Hockey moves their players out at 17! Take out the NDT players and the list is long and unimpressive. Will it improve? Maybe, but no for sures on that. Seems to me some of you who slam any posts that praise the West in HS hockey, go to great (and very similar arguements) lengths to uplift the NAHL. Go back and substitute "West" for NAHL and "East" for USHL and I bet you see some of your posts differently. As for an individual player moving from the USHL to the NAHL, could be lots of reasons. Homesick, misses friends, misses girlfriend, doesn't like being out of their "comfort" zone away from home, all of the above. I don't see Sioux/Gopher HS recruits who are not ready for UND or Minnesota being told to play in the NAHL for a year or two. Quite the opposite, they are sent to the USHL to become D-I ready. Matt Moreland who had a roster spot on UND this year had it not been for academic reasons was told to play in Fargo of the NAHL. Robby Phillip who is recruited by UND was told to play in Fargo of the NAHL. Brian Shack of the University of Minnesota played in the NAHL. Obviously, at this point in time not as many NAHL players have commited to high quality college programs as the USHL. When you say "Will it improve? maybe, but no for sures on that." you are anything but on the mark. If you have ever watched an NAHL game today, compared to one in previous years it is very apparent that the quality of player has gone up dramatically. The quality of play has improved so much that division one powerhouses like Minnesota and UND feel comfortable taking players from that league. A practice that would not have been done a couple years ago. Why would Phil Fox who is from Stillwater, MN leave the USHL and come back to the NAHL. Is he homesick? No he is from Stillwater, not Fargo. In any case at that age many of ones friends move away for college, so moving back to your hometown (if there was a NAHL team there) would not help you if you missed your friends. Not everyones hometown has a USHL team or an NAHL team so the theory of players moving back to the NAHL because they are homesick does not really stick. Besides many of these players are very committed to development and want to do whats best for that, despite being homesick or missing friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SportsDoc Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Matt Moreland who had a roster spot on UND this year had it not been for academic reasons was told to play in Fargo of the NAHL. Robby Phillip who is recruited by UND was told to play in Fargo of the NAHL. Brian Shack of the University of Minnesota played in the NAHL. Obviously, at this point in time not as many NAHL players have commited to high quality college programs as the USHL. When you say "Will it improve? maybe, but no for sures on that." you are anything but on the mark. If you have ever watched an NAHL game today, compared to one in previous years it is very apparent that the quality of player has gone up dramatically. The quality of play has improved so much that division one powerhouses like Minnesota and UND feel comfortable taking players from that league. A practice that would not have been done a couple years ago. Why would Phil Fox who is from Stillwater, MN leave the USHL and come back to the NAHL. Is he homesick? No he is from Stillwater, not Fargo. In any case at that age many of ones friends move away for college, so moving back to your hometown (if there was a NAHL team there) would not help you if you missed your friends. Not everyones hometown has a USHL team or an NAHL team so the theory of players moving back to the NAHL because they are homesick does not really stick. Besides many of these players are very committed to development and want to do whats best for that, despite being homesick or missing friends. Okie Dokie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skateshattrick Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Great posts by UNDhockey22 and right on the mark! I don't doubt that Chad Johnson wants a few local players on his roster, but I doubt that he would take many, if any, "token" players as SportsDoc implies. That implication is not only rank speculation, but it is not logical. First, Chad Johnson wants to move on to the next level just like the players. That means winning first. Second, if he was just putting local players on the team to put "butts" in the stands, why would he have not taken more local players who tried out? There were many local players who tried out that were on Elite 1 leagues in both ND and Minnesota that did not make the team. I can give you names, but I really don't think that is necessary. Finally, the Jets are the top team in the league. That is a testament to the quality of the players that Chad Johnson gets, local or otherwise. The fact is that the quality of hockey in this area has improved greatly, so it is possible to have a number of local players and still succeed. Ironically, Dane Litke, who coaches Bismarck, only took 2 local players, and 1 does not play. Yet, the FM Jets have done much better than Bismarck both head-to-head and in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDhockey22 Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Great posts by UNDhockey22 and right on the mark! I don't doubt that Chad Johnson wants a few local players on his roster, but I doubt that he would take many, if any, "token" players as SportsDoc implies. That implication is not only rank speculation, but it is not logical. First, Chad Johnson wants to move on to the next level just like the players. That means winning first. Second, if he was just putting local players on the team to put "butts" in the stands, why would he have not taken more local players who tried out? There were many local players who tried out that were on Elite 1 leagues in both ND and Minnesota that did not make the team. I can give you names, but I really don't think that is necessary. Finally, the Jets are the top team in the league. That is a testament to the quality of the players that Chad Johnson gets, local or otherwise. The fact is that the quality of hockey in this area has improved greatly, so it is possible to have a number of local players and still succeed. Ironically, Dane Litke, who coaches Bismarck, only took 2 local players, and 1 does not play. Yet, the FM Jets have done much better than Bismarck both head-to-head and in the league. Thank you skateshattrick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pukstan Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 The length of the list of players is impressive. The schools, for the most part, are anything but. And nice try putting the National Development team of 16 year olds on there! Must be a great league if USA Hockey moves their players out at 17! Take out the NDT players and the list is long and unimpressive. Will it improve? Maybe, but no for sures on that. Seems to me some of you who slam any posts that praise the West in HS hockey, go to great (and very similar arguements) lengths to uplift the NAHL. Go back and substitute "West" for NAHL and "East" for USHL and I bet you see some of your posts differently. As for an individual player moving from the USHL to the NAHL, could be lots of reasons. Homesick, misses friends, misses girlfriend, doesn't like being out of their "comfort" zone away from home, all of the above. I don't see Sioux/Gopher HS recruits who are not ready for UND or Minnesota being told to play in the NAHL for a year or two. Quite the opposite, they are sent to the USHL to become D-I ready. I simply went to www.nahl.com copy and pasted a link under "college commitment" and posted it. I beleive I also stated that the USHL is the the biggest pipeline to college hockey therefore supporting your argument. I beleive that even though some of the players are listed on the USDTP it is still a product of the North American Hockey League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pukstan Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Great posts by UNDhockey22 and right on the mark! I don't doubt that Chad Johnson wants a few local players on his roster, but I doubt that he would take many, if any, "token" players as SportsDoc implies. That implication is not only rank speculation, but it is not logical. First, Chad Johnson wants to move on to the next level just like the players. That means winning first. Second, if he was just putting local players on the team to put "butts" in the stands, why would he have not taken more local players who tried out? There were many local players who tried out that were on Elite 1 leagues in both ND and Minnesota that did not make the team. I can give you names, but I really don't think that is necessary. Finally, the Jets are the top team in the league. That is a testament to the quality of the players that Chad Johnson gets, local or otherwise. The fact is that the quality of hockey in this area has improved greatly, so it is possible to have a number of local players and still succeed. Ironically, Dane Litke, who coaches Bismarck, only took 2 local players, and 1 does not play. Yet, the FM Jets have done much better than Bismarck both head-to-head and in the league. Who are the two local kids that are on the Bobcats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csonked Out Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Thank you skateshattrick. I dont really think that UND and Minnesota feel "comfortable" as you put it recruiting from the NAHL. Aaron Walski was asked to walk on and will probably never play more than 1 or 2 games a year, he is more of a practice goalie. Ryan Martens who I believe is from the USHL played in 2 games in his freshman campaign. With the recruiting these major teams do from the USHL the BCHL A and B leagues, Schools like Shattuck, overseas, and the Canadian prep leagues, there is not enough room to recruit many NAHLplayers, and if they do, these players are very rarely impact players (Ben Bishop of Maine is an exception to the rule). I'm not saying they don't belong in D1, but look where these kids are being recruited to. It's not the D1 powerhouses. and won't be for a long long time, but rather the lower quality and skilled teams. There is nothing wrong with this, and often times gives the player a better opportunity to become an impact player, but one must realize that at this point in time, that is all 99% of the players will be. When players are asked to go down from the major powerhouses, they do what Qynn Fylling did and go to USHL teams, for the main reason that skills can be developed faster because the players in the league may be very young, but they are all highly skilled. As for Matt Moreland coming to UND I would put money on it that it won't happen. Heck the Mr. Hockey winner that played D for Red River that plays in the USHL is having a hard time getting on the team because of all the high end talent UND gets, and there isn't a lot of room. I would also be surprised if Wurden is any different, although at this point that is just speculation. There are a place for NAHL players, but at this point it is rarely for D1 powerhouses. Just look at the current rosters right now and that is clearly shown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDhockey22 Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 I dont really think that UND and Minnesota feel "comfortable" as you put it recruiting from the NAHL. Aaron Walski was asked to walk on and will probably never play more than 1 or 2 games a year, he is more of a practice goalie. Ryan Martens who I believe is from the USHL played in 2 games in his freshman campaign. With the recruiting these major teams do from the USHL the BCHL A and B leagues, Schools like Shattuck, overseas, and the Canadian prep leagues, there is not enough room to recruit many NAHLplayers, and if they do, these players are very rarely impact players (Ben Bishop of Maine is an exception to the rule). I'm not saying they don't belong in D1, but look where these kids are being recruited to. It's not the D1 powerhouses. and won't be for a long long time, but rather the lower quality and skilled teams. There is nothing wrong with this, and often times gives the player a better opportunity to become an impact player, but one must realize that at this point in time, that is all 99% of the players will be. When players are asked to go down from the major powerhouses, they do what Qynn Fylling did and go to USHL teams, for the main reason that skills can be developed faster because the players in the league may be very young, but they are all highly skilled. As for Matt Moreland coming to UND I would put money on it that it won't happen. Heck the Mr. Hockey winner that played D for Red River that plays in the USHL is having a hard time getting on the team because of all the high end talent UND gets, and there isn't a lot of room. I would also be surprised if Wurden is any different, although at this point that is just speculation. There are a place for NAHL players, but at this point it is rarely for D1 powerhouses. Just look at the current rosters right now and that is clearly shown. The NAHL has taken a complete 180 in the last two years. Don't expect to see 10 players names on WCHA teams from the NAHL next year. Because like any transition, it takes time. The point I am making is that the NAHL and USHL leagues gap is narrowing. Not that it has narrowed, and that recruiting from both leagues is equal at this point in time. If you look at the USHL college commitment list you see many players going to the same colleges that NAHL players sign to (Quinnipiac, Bemdji, Ferris State, Bowling Green, UConn, Niagra, Holy Cross, Merrimack). What does this mean? It means many players in the NAHL and USHL could cross over leagues and have similar success. For now, (and maybe forever, I cannot predict the future) the blue chip prospects play in the USHL. Those are the players that separate the USHL and NAHL. When highly I hear that highly recruited D-1 players are taking there game to the NAHL, that leads me to believe that some players in the future will follow suit (Robby Phillip, Kai Kantola (also on NHL central scouting), Justin Johnson, Nick Biondo, Jacob Cepis, Kurt Kivisto, Patrick Shafer, Matt Jolly all playing for "top notch" d-1 schools.). Those players listed previously are only a portion of the players either recruited, or playing for big name d-1 schools. I only used players from the 2005-2006 season and 2006-2007 season (that recruiting season is not over) and the number of players going to traditionally strong hockey schools is nearly four times that of the previous season. If Minnesota was not comfortable recruiting Brian Shack from Southern Minnesota, they would not have done so. If UND did not feel Robby Phillip would develop as well in the NAHL as he would in the USHL they would have advised him to play for the team that drafted him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skateshattrick Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Who are the two local kids that are on the Bobcats? Will Aide of Bismarck and Alex Olson of Devils Lake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pukstan Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Will Aide of Bismarck and Alex Olson of Devils Lake. Which one does not play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDhockey22 Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Which one does not play? Will Aide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ND Pride Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 This is a great thread with a lot of great analysis. Probably some of the more thoughtful and analytical stuff I have seen on high school hockey issues, juniors, etc. Here is a thought that I am tossing out with no particular intention - in terms of this debate - just a fact I discovered. Last year when Holy Cross beat the Gophers in hockey I went to the Holy Cross website to take a look at where their players had done their "developmental" work in juniors. As we know, the Gophers, like many WCHA teams, pick up kids from NTDP in Michigan, the USHL, etc. Holy Cross had three players from the NAHL (Helena, Bismarck, and Witchita Falls). Again, I am not forwarding a particular point but simply indicating that a team who accomplished a major upset had three players from a Tier II Junior "A" Level League (USHL is Tier I). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDhockey22 Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 This is a great thread with a lot of great analysis. Probably some of the more thoughtful and analytical stuff I have seen on high school hockey issues, juniors, etc. Here is a thought that I am tossing out with no particular intention - in terms of this debate - just a fact I discovered. Last year when Holy Cross beat the Gophers in hockey I went to the Holy Cross website to take a look at where their players had done their "developmental" work in juniors. As we know, the Gophers, like many WCHA teams, pick up kids from NTDP in Michigan, the USHL, etc. Holy Cross had three players from the NAHL (Helena, Bismarck, and Witchita Falls). Again, I am not forwarding a particular point but simply indicating that a team who accomplished a major upset had three players from a Tier II Junior "A" Level League (USHL is Tier I). Interesting I found preliminary rankings for the NHL central scouting. Not in numerical order but players listed as "A" prospects (first three rounds) and "B" prospects. Nine players from the NAHL were listed as "B" prospects, none were listed as "A". The players are: Brenden Brickley of Texas, Cody Ikkala of Marquette, Doug Leaverton of Mahoning Valley, Patrick Maroon of St. Louis, Brad Mccabe of Alaska, Steve Sperry of Marquette, Scooter Vaughn of St. Louis, Austin Lee of Fargo, and Stephan Dacosta of Texas. The USHL right now has 9 players listed as "A" prospects. They also have 35 players listed as "B" prospects. I would list them all but you get the point. Jordan Willert was on the list however. Although there is a much larger number of players from the USHL on this watch list, the 9 players listed from the NAHL is still very impressive. I believe last year there was only 1 or 2 players from the NAHL listed. Also noted- Jordy Christian and Jeff Foss were both listed as "B" prospects. While John Lee was listed as an "A" prospect. Kai Kantola who played with Fargo last years is listed again as a "B" prospect. Brian Shack who played for Southern Minnesota is listed as a "B" prospect aswell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warthog Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Who are the two local kids that are on the Bobcats? Will Aide -Bismarck ? Alex Olson - Devils Lake ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiouxy Posted January 11, 2007 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 Will Aide -Bismarck ? Alex Olson - Devils Lake ? Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiouxy Posted January 11, 2007 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 Mr. Hockey finalists half way through the season. Wurden(FSH), Miller(GPR), McDougall(FSH), Stremick(MIN),(gotta have a finalist from the west....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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