jimdahl Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 Looks like NDSU's women's athletics director decided that NDSU shouldn't be using the name 'Sioux' anymore: http://www.in-forum.com/articles/?id=22881 And: http://www.in-forum.com/articles/?id=22882 http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/4552126.htm This seems quite likely a response to the accusations of racial insensitivity at NDSU (rather like SCSU.) The fact that we quit playing NDSU regularly in all sports after next season makes it a bit of a non-event, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kr Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 The young man from NDSU senate is on the radio right now with Scott Hennan. They are bringing in the UND Bridges group to talk to the Student Senate (I believe) prior to the vote on the resolutions. As far as bringing in proponents of keeping the name/honoring the name the young man stated that they would welcome speakers with that viewpoint, however, as there is no "official" group in support of the name, it will be the obligation of the senators to educate themselves as to whether the Sioux name as used by UND is an honor prior to the vote. Scott let the young man state his whole case. The NDSU guy said that it doesn't matter if some think it is an honor and some don't - doesn't matter because if some are offended then it has to be changed. He also kept talking like the vote was a done deal, and Scott kept calling him on that so the young man (Paul, I think that was his name) would then restate it "if the vote goes through" ...... it seems pretty likely that the vote will go through...... Paul brought up that GF Central changed its name from Redskins NDSU is taking this step so they have a similar policy to UMD, UM, SCSU, USD, SDSU There were callers: One caller said that NDSU senate should concern themselves with 2 facts regarding sporting teams: the 44% graduation rate of NDSU student/atheletes and that the NDSU football player didn't place members on the all-academic team Another caller: a Central HS grad, stated while he still is not happy with the nickname at Central he understands that Redskin has a negative connotation Scott brought up PCM's Marc Ranfranz interview - Paul dismissed it saying that there isn't a consensus within the Sioux/Native community and it is offensive to some so it is wrong Earlier this morning with Tim and Swyg someone called in and asked if NDSU was ready to take on the "big" boys (ie Florida State, U of Illinois, and Utah, and the team from Calif that are the Aztecs) because going to Div. 1-AA they'll (NDSU) be able to broaden their policy to include those teams on the resolution - otherwise this whole resolution just comes across that it is anti-UND Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 I heard some of Scotts dialog with Paul and Paul sounded like a complete idiot. I think Scott kept it respectable but I am sure he could have really slambed him, in retrospect I wish he would have. I think some of these schools should worry about something else. I think it all comes down to jealousy, I mean really. How many schools have a Ralph to donate money like that to their schools. None. I think that is what it really boils down to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbarker Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 The NDSU guy said that it doesn't matter if some think it is an honor and some don't - doesn't matter because if some are offended then it has to be changed. Â Kind of a slippery slope, isn't it? Is there anything that at least a few people don't find offensive? Personally, I find hypocrisy offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdahl Posted November 19, 2002 Author Share Posted November 19, 2002 Kind of a slippery slope, isn't it? Is there anything that at least a few people don't find offensive? Personally, I find hypocrisy offensive. My impression is that if I call up the NDSU senate and explain how I find the name "Bison" offensive they'll change it, because just one person being offended is enough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 jim: As the cross is a sacred symbol in Christianity, "tatanka" is the sacred symbol of "Wakatanka" (The Great Spirit) to the American Indians of the Plains. "Tatanka" is sacred in American Indian religion. A public school is using "tatanka" as a mascot. This should not be because some may construe it to be a public institution endorsing a particular religion. Tatanka? You know it in English as Bison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 This is just another example of liberal activists becoming involved while conservative students sit back and mind their own business. I think NDSU has a pretty conservative student body. I would be highly surprised if a majority of the students agree with the decision that the student senate is about to make. Yet, the student senate will decide against the nickname anyway and there will be little/no opposition by conservatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Eagle Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 The young man from NDSU senate is on the radio right now with Scott Hennan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 I suppose when your school is replete with losers, you can leave the conference, head to another division or decide to not use the nickname of your closest rival. When do these idiots head to D1 obscurity again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
U2Bad1 Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Here is a good article in the fargo forum http://www.in-forum.com/columnists/article...ist=terrydevine The jist of the article is that NDSU should butt out of the nickname issue and is risking embarassment. Also, NDSU referenced the sports illustrated poll- "But the most compelling reason to shed ourselves of this nickname mess is a poll done earlier this year for Sports Illustrated by a reputable national firm, the Peter Harris Research Group. Even though the methodology was blatantly biased against team nicknames, the poll clearly showed that few people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
U2Bad1 Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 I am loving the backlash that the NDSU student senate seems to be receiving. I predict that soon they will begin to crawl back into their holes with the agony of failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choyt3 Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Here is a good article in the fargo forum http://www.in-forum.com/columnists/article...ist=terrydevine Both the Herald and Forum editorial boards address the issue as well. The Herald sure had to choke down the words, but nevertheless were quite critical of the NDSU student senate. Fargo Forum Grand Forks Herald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 So if the SU student senators and some admins are so against the Sioux name, does this mean they can't play Notre Dame, Florida State or Illinois when they make their "splash" in D1? Not that they ever will in this lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 I agree with BadEagle that conservatives tend to be more independent thinkers than liberals, but my complaint is that they also tend to be more silent and passive and less passionate and involved. That is my main complaint. I don't suggest that we, as conservatives, always resort to forming some sort of group to get our point across, but I wish more conservatives would speak out on issues that do not directly affect them personally. I understand the liberals think more with emotion than conservatives and that is probably why they are more passionate about their issues. However, in many ways, this society respects emotion more than intellect and conservatives need to become more passionate. Like BadEagle has said, this is about more than simply a nickname. Conservatives at NDSU should be upset about this action even if they don't like UND athletics and have no attachment to the Fighting Sioux nickname. Having said that, I am pleasantly surprised that there appears to be some sort of backlash to what NDSU is doing. Will it be enough? Probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YaneA Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 I consider myself to be a political liberal but I also support the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo. Likewise, I am in favor of both free speech and equal opportunity but opposed to political correctness because it advances neither of those objectives. Political correctness squelches free speech and minimizes equal opportunity for the very groups it seeks to protect because it creates the impression that those groups are so fragile that they must be coddled in order to compete with the rest of us. PC has it all wrong: In the public debate, you don't need to *respect* the other guy's opinion. Rather, you respect the other guy's *right* to hold the opinion and to voice it but you reserve the right to yourself to vigorously oppose the substance of his opinion if it's wrong-headed, illogical, dangerous, what-have-you. I find myself in the unenviable position of agreeing with the Herald editorial: Officially, NDSU has no choice but to abide by the rule of its ruling body, the Board of Higher Ed., regarding the Sioux nickname and logo. Unofficially, and as a matter of personal conscience, individuals at NDSU (students, faculty or administrators) are free to voice the opposite view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 I also get very scared when I find myself agreeing with a Herald editorial. I too know a couple Democrats that claim to "liberal" who support the Fighting Sioux nickname. I hope there are more out there. Yane A, I agree that those who oppose the Sioux nickname on the campus at NDSU have a right to speak out against it. I've never argued that they don't have the right of free speech. I just wish conservatives exercised this right more often to counter the left. I know some conservatives and moderates on this board disagree with me on this point, but I believe the right has been "nice" too long and needs to be equally as passionate and vocal as the left. Maybe I've been reading too much David Horowitz. But on the topic of free speech, Yane A, I would argue that your position is in the minority among "political liberals." Just look at the climate on American campuses today that are dominated by the left. Speech is free as long as you speak from the liberal point of view. On many campuses, if one dares to speak another view, they are commonly shouted down, marginalized, and branded as a "racist" "sexist", etc. Increasingly, they are even subject to disciplinary procedures. "Speech codes" are becoming the norm. Many on the left want to ban all speech that is "offensive." But I would argue that almost ALL speech is offensive to someone. So who defines "offensive?" The left is trying to through political correctness. I suggest you read a book called "Shadow University" to see what your fellow liberals are up to on campuses across the country. As a disclaimer: at the two Universities I received degrees from, I seldom found that my conservative views were not welcome. However, I didn't go to liberal schools like UC-Berkley, Stanford, Michigan, any of the Ivies, etc. I believe (and hope) that schools like UND and NDSU are still relatively cordial and open to different points of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YaneA Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 mksioux-- You're right that my position on the evils of PC is not shared by most others of the liberal stripe. Just read an article that remarked on the irony that, on today's Supreme Court, it is the conservative justices who are the champions of "free speech." I did a lot of research several years back regarding university "speech codes" and I concluded that they were all overbroad and ran afoul of the First Amendment. If a university wants to adopt aspirational rules for civil interaction and hope that everyone lives up to that code, fine. I see a problem only when someone gets punished or endures some sanction for failing to toe the PC line. Unfortunately, my experience tells me that many universities, for all their talk of embracing diversity, are not as welcoming of a diverse *point of view* as they are of diverse races, religions, gender, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Here's a good column by Jeff Jacoby on just how far the PC crowd has gone in its effort to drown out conservative voices on campus. I guess we should be glad that we don't live on the east coast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdahl Posted November 20, 2002 Author Share Posted November 20, 2002 Not a scientific sample by any stretch, by interesting nonetheless: http://www.in-forum.com/poll/pollresults.cfm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 mksioux, YaneA: You may want to familiarize yourselves with The Fire. You'll be shocked and saddened with the things going on on American campuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Eagle Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 Apparently it is true: organizations hold the power. The individual is nothing, usless, of course, he is a liberal being denied his right to eat snake feces, have Clintonian sexual relations with an animal, all in the name of cultural preservation and freedom of religion, or some other aggrandized, self-idolizing, solipsistic practice. Groups win. Numbers win. We conservatives simply must learn to operate this way. The communists (get it? commune-ists, groupies, numbers game) have the upper hand, by far. They are years ahead. America is in for some radical surgery, or we shall change as a nation into something other that what we have been. That simply has to be in the wrong direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 You folks missed the Fargo Forum Editorial Board's take on the situation: Forum editorial: Keep NDSU out of UND logo debate The Forum - 11/20/2002 Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 Is anybody but me, perhaps, surprised that the only people who really push the nickname issue reside in academia? They tend to see themselves as "tolerant", "diverse", and/or "sensitive". However, they routinely berate, threaten, insult or demean those who disagree with them. Add in the "racist", or whatever "ist", label and you have the complete package of myopic intolerance. It's probably no wonder most of these people can't exist in the "real world" outside of their ivy covered walls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverman Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 I also get very scared when I find myself agreeing with a Herald editorial. Is this about what Tom Dennis wrote? If so he seem's to have come full circle on the Sioux issue.It must burn Yellowbirds butt to see Tom do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 Looks like NDSU's women's athletics director decided that NDSU shouldn't be using the name 'Sioux' anymore: One can't help but wonder how pleased the nine members of the State Board of Higher Education are with this action. For the NDSU Student Senate to bring it up is one issue, but for paid employees of the state to take an action diametrically opposed to the Board is another. Can the NDSU athletic department spell i-n-s-u-b-o-r-d-i-n-a-t-i-o-n? For the NDSU athletic department, what with the Div I fiasco, the timing could not be worse. For UND, no amount of public relations would have resulted in the out-pouring of public support for the Fighting Sioux name. Thank you, NDSU AD and Student Senate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts