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2022-2023 Season


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1 hour ago, coachdags said:

Coach Paul Sather is not the problem...

UND decided to enter the D1 Basketball sports horizon 350 Schools, then they need to invest into it. We have inadequate and dated facilities compared to other D1 institutions, I'm not even sure we can compete with our pier Schools like NDSU, SDSU, USD, OR in the Summit, and definitely not against the likes of Creighton, Minnesota, Northern Iowa, Wisconsin.  We need Locker Rooms, Weight Rooms, Study Areas, Film and Media Rooms, Entertainment Areas and more...

Our Collective Coaches Salary and Support Staff Budget is most likely under 500,000.

D1 Hockey is a regional sport at best with only 60+ Schools participating, we have a State of the Art Arena, Locker Rooms, Training Areas, Film, Media, Entertainment Rooms, Kitchen for meals, Study Areas, Weight Room, Practice ice and more...

Our Collective Coaches Salary and Support Staff Budget is probably over 1.5 million dollars +...

Bottom line is improve the areas that need improvement, more kids will come, they will stay, we will win.

Need to invest in the program to grow it, If Hockey never had Mr. Engelstad to invest starting back in the 80"s our program would never have reach the National Acclaim and heights it has.

We will never be a Duke, Kansas, Michigan State, but with some added investment by fans, alumni, UND it can be a solid Mid Major type Institution. 

I understand it's dangerous to compare one sport to another, but if you want to have the expectations then the support needs to be a little better for the struggling sports. Heck the chef for one sport probably makes more than the assistant coaches for the other sports. 

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I have no beef with Sather personally seems like a likeable guy and I like how he gets his team to play hard nose defense.  He also seemed to get more out of his players this year then what was expected.  That being said the players he has recruited mostly are not Division 1 players.  This is where I am wondering if he has the ability to recruit the right players.  This coming year will be year 4.  How many years does he get because he is a likeable guy?  Do we wait 10 years and consistently rank at the bottom of the summit because we have a nice guy that works really hard?  He was the head coach of a powerhouse division 2 school that really didnt need much to get players to go there.  We needed to hire a coach in my opinion that knows how to recruit and had division 1 connections.  

As far as facility, training rooms, locker rooms etc.  I agree totally that we need to invest more into basketball to get the top recruits.  BUT previous coaches had the same facility and they were able to win championships and compete at the top level of the Big Sky and Summit League.    No body wants to see a coach lose his job and I wouldnt feel good about it either.  I want him to succeed like everyone else, but if he doesn't at some point you have to cut your losses and move on.  I am not a UND alumni and I am  just not happy cheering for the old green and white and watch them lose every year.   They need something that will draw fans to games not just alumni that dont care if we lose or win.  Any other fan cares and the more you win the more fans will come.  Look at the women's team.  They had way more fans at games when they are winning then losing.  Our volleyball coach got fired because he couldnt win.  I guarantee there will be more people at volleyball games next year.  

We have 3 scholarships left to give out and in my opinion if we dont see improvement in year 4 it is time to look at someone who can.  

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1 minute ago, NewUndFan said:

I have no beef with Sather personally seems like a likeable guy and I like how he gets his team to play hard nose defense.  He also seemed to get more out of his players this year then what was expected.  That being said the players he has recruited mostly are not Division 1 players.  This is where I am wondering if he has the ability to recruit the right players.  This coming year will be year 4.  How many years does he get because he is a likeable guy?  Do we wait 10 years and consistently rank at the bottom of the summit because we have a nice guy that works really hard?  He was the head coach of a powerhouse division 2 school that really didnt need much to get players to go there.  We needed to hire a coach in my opinion that knows how to recruit and had division 1 connections.  

As far as facility, training rooms, locker rooms etc.  I agree totally that we need to invest more into basketball to get the top recruits.  BUT previous coaches had the same facility and they were able to win championships and compete at the top level of the Big Sky and Summit League.    No body wants to see a coach lose his job and I wouldnt feel good about it either.  I want him to succeed like everyone else, but if he doesn't at some point you have to cut your losses and move on.  I am not a UND alumni and I am  just not happy cheering for the old green and white and watch them lose every year.   They need something that will draw fans to games not just alumni that dont care if we lose or win.  Any other fan cares and the more you win the more fans will come.  Look at the women's team.  They had way more fans at games when they are winning then losing.  Our volleyball coach got fired because he couldnt win.  I guarantee there will be more people at volleyball games next year.  

We have 3 scholarships left to give out and in my opinion if we dont see improvement in year 4 it is time to look at someone who can.  

Based on other contracts at UND I believe 12 is the correct answer to that question.....

 

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Sather has been a winner everywhere he's been prior to here...and it's not like Black Hills is an easy place to win (Aberdeen is in the middle of nowhere but has tradition on its side).  From my vantage point, the portal has been really hard on us, and that's not unique to UND.  However we don't seem to be in the market to land a lot of guys from some of these other schools that are getting pillaged by the portal.  Is this where the facilities/money/location disadvantages come into play?  Maybe so...but I'd like to see us "fight fire with fire" when it comes to the portal...and not just in basketball either (hello football).  We aren't going to change it, so we might as well embrace it.  I saw we offered the NSIC newcomer of the year that's transferring out of UMary...probably a good idea!  I'd love to see us make a run at the Archambault kid...not sure we have the horsepower to bring him in...but he'd make a good pairing with Eaglestaff!

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I think the AD needs to also address the number of transfers from the program and I would be surprised its because of the head coach. I think there have been number of reasons but if i was managing athletic department i would want to address it and find if there are reasons were loosing players now for the last two season. Without knowing what the problem its hard to fix the problem and if its reasons like funding, facilities, travel, and even better or more personal for conditioning, trainers, diet, or total health management these are things that can be address and come back to fans, alumni, and community to get more support. I believe number of fans just want to help this program progress but administration has to be active and communicating to the public needs they may have instead of not hearing anything from them. I believe this why we have so much criticism on fan forum. The fans care but you need to communicate to fans and community how your addressing it other than wait to next year when we have seen no improvement for three years based on their records. The local media and UND need to put some importance on the other sports beside hockey and i think it has effect why were seeing transfers athletes and recruiting they to  want to be recognized. Its one of the big reasons athletes compete and especially if they want to play on after college and last few years all other sports at UND seem to be after thought behind hockey. Just my opinion but i hear from other people too!    

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11 hours ago, iramurphy said:

If we push coaches out after 3-4 yrs we will add another challenge, along with low salaries to hiring coaches. Sather has been able to recruit Bruns, Eaglestaff and Omot. He obviously has been able to evaluate talent. How many schools missed on these guys? Mid major schools just like FCS FB teams face new challenges with transfer rules, NIL and COVID. We have work to do and it isn’t easy but I think Sather can get us there. The band wagon fans will jump on in time. I may be wrong but I’m betting he gets things turned around. 

Alot of band wagon people on this forum that really want the best for UND.   I wonder how many are graduates of the school or local life time residents?    Bruns was recruited here because he had no other offers and bolted as soon as he had another.  Why was that?  If we have a great coach to play for?   Also Eaglestaff said in a interview that he was coming here because his uncle was a legend at UND and wanted to play for the same school.  Not much recruiting done there.  I also heard that the reason why we got Omot was alot to do with Eaglestaff, again no recruiting there.    If UND alumni and lifetime residents love losing and giving coaches 10 years to finally decide if they can make it or not thats fine.  But other new fans like myself want to see some sort of success before I am going to spend money on tickets.  I dont expect championships, I just expect we are competitive and have a chance to win.  We won 2 conference games this year!    I still wonder how many years do you think a coach should have when after 4 years we have steadily sunk in the league.  If we are at the bottom next year give a 5 year extension because we have a nice guy?   Honest question please answer for me how many years would you give???  10 ? 15 ?   I know at my job if I didnt perform I wouldnt be given 4 years.   I want Sather to succeed and  I want UND to be successful.  I just dont know how long you can give a program.  My honest opinion is if next year we dont see some sort of improvement or if other star players transfer we move on.   

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10 minutes ago, NewUndFan said:

Alot of band wagon people on this forum that really want the best for UND.   I wonder how many are graduates of the school or local life time residents?    Bruns was recruited here because he had no other offers and bolted as soon as he had another.  Why was that?  If we have a great coach to play for?   Also Eaglestaff said in a interview that he was coming here because his uncle was a legend at UND and wanted to play for the same school.  Not much recruiting done there.  I also heard that the reason why we got Omot was alot to do with Eaglestaff, again no recruiting there.    If UND alumni and lifetime residents love losing and giving coaches 10 years to finally decide if they can make it or not thats fine.  But other new fans like myself want to see some sort of success before I am going to spend money on tickets.  I dont expect championships, I just expect we are competitive and have a chance to win.  We won 2 conference games this year!    I still wonder how many years do you think a coach should have when after 4 years we have steadily sunk in the league.  If we are at the bottom next year give a 5 year extension because we have a nice guy?   Honest question please answer for me how many years would you give???  10 ? 15 ?   I know at my job if I didnt perform I wouldnt be given 4 years.   I want Sather to succeed and  I want UND to be successful.  I just dont know how long you can give a program.  My honest opinion is if next year we dont see some sort of improvement or if other star players transfer we move on.   

Has anyone said on here that he should get 10 or 15 years??  
 

Tough spot to be in as a coach when you get blame for not getting recruits but get zero credit for the ones you do get.  You’ll be quick to blame him if either of those two transfer even though he didn’t get them here.  
 

I believe UNDs (and schools of similar size) biggest challenge right now is learning the new world of player retention and roster building.  5 year players are a thing of the past.  No reason to redshirt players anymore.  Need to build/maintain relationships with players for when they transfer from other schools.  I think last year was a little new to everyone, I’m curious to see how he rounds out the roster this year.  

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18 minutes ago, NewUndFan said:

Alot of band wagon people on this forum that really want the best for UND.   I wonder how many are graduates of the school or local life time residents?    Bruns was recruited here because he had no other offers and bolted as soon as he had another.  Why was that?  If we have a great coach to play for?   Also Eaglestaff said in a interview that he was coming here because his uncle was a legend at UND and wanted to play for the same school.  Not much recruiting done there.  I also heard that the reason why we got Omot was alot to do with Eaglestaff, again no recruiting there.    If UND alumni and lifetime residents love losing and giving coaches 10 years to finally decide if they can make it or not thats fine.  But other new fans like myself want to see some sort of success before I am going to spend money on tickets.  I dont expect championships, I just expect we are competitive and have a chance to win.  We won 2 conference games this year!    I still wonder how many years do you think a coach should have when after 4 years we have steadily sunk in the league.  If we are at the bottom next year give a 5 year extension because we have a nice guy?   Honest question please answer for me how many years would you give???  10 ? 15 ?   I know at my job if I didnt perform I wouldnt be given 4 years.   I want Sather to succeed and  I want UND to be successful.  I just dont know how long you can give a program.  My honest opinion is if next year we dont see some sort of improvement or if other star players transfer we move on.   

I’m not sure I would say “we” move on. Those who are waiting for success before further engaging in the program are less likely to meet the coaches, players, their families and understand what it takes to move a program forward. I am not close to the program either but I have been involved in turning programs around. From your statements I don’t believe you have any idea what recruiting involves. I think Sather was a great choice and we need to be patient. I wouldn’t take any college coaching job with less than a five year guarantee. No one is talking about 10-15 yrs. If we aren’t moving forward after 5 yrs ok. 

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23 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

I’m not sure I would say “we” move on. Those who are waiting for success before further engaging in the program are less likely to meet the coaches, players, their families and understand what it takes to move a program forward. I am not close to the program either but I have been involved in turning programs around. From your statements I don’t believe you have any idea what recruiting involves. I think Sather was a great choice and we need to be patient. I wouldn’t take any college coaching job with less than a five year guarantee. No one is talking about 10-15 yrs. If we aren’t moving forward after 5 yrs ok. 

Next year is year 4.  I am not saying we should get rid of Sather now either.  I see good qualities in his coaching, but I am saying if next year is the same as this year with losing and players leaving, someone should be looking at this.  I am still hopefully with the 3 scholarships he has left we are going to have a team to cheer for and be proud of.   You are right I have never recruited a player, but that is also not my job.  A coach is paid to recruit and coach.   Doesnt matter if I can recruit or not.  But I can see a good team verse a bad team.  And if you want new fans you better have a coach that wins at least as much as he loses to bring fans in.  

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47 minutes ago, NewUndFan said:

Next year is year 4.  I am not saying we should get rid of Sather now either.  I see good qualities in his coaching, but I am saying if next year is the same as this year with losing and players leaving, someone should be looking at this.  I am still hopefully with the 3 scholarships he has left we are going to have a team to cheer for and be proud of.   You are right I have never recruited a player, but that is also not my job.  A coach is paid to recruit and coach.   Doesnt matter if I can recruit or not.  But I can see a good team verse a bad team.  And if you want new fans you better have a coach that wins at least as much as he loses to bring fans in.  

You are correct in your comment on building a fan base. I wouldn’t expect you to recruit but you actually support my opinion that you don’t understand recruiting. Your comments indicated an opinion that Sather’s recruiting successes didn’t require much recruiting. I disagree. The majority of us fans will judge good team vs bad team based solely on win/loss record and that makes sense. Judging the coach and program must go much deeper and is more complex. The record is an important part and ultimately, the deciding factor. I may be wrong but I believe Sather will get this program back on track. 

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45 minutes ago, NewUndFan said:

Next year is year 4.  I am not saying we should get rid of Sather now either.  I see good qualities in his coaching, but I am saying if next year is the same as this year with losing and players leaving, someone should be looking at this.  I am still hopefully with the 3 scholarships he has left we are going to have a team to cheer for and be proud of.   You are right I have never recruited a player, but that is also not my job.  A coach is paid to recruit and coach.   Doesnt matter if I can recruit or not.  But I can see a good team verse a bad team.  And if you want new fans you better have a coach that wins at least as much as he loses to bring fans in.  

He does need to hit on those 3 open scholarships. If they do, I truly believe that they would make a huge jump in the standings. 

It was more than just the portal as to why last year was disasterous.  Everything went wrong for this team, I doubt it happens again. 

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1 hour ago, NewUndFan said:

Alot of band wagon people on this forum that really want the best for UND.   I wonder how many are graduates of the school or local life time residents?    Bruns was recruited here because he had no other offers and bolted as soon as he had another.  Why was that?  If we have a great coach to play for?   Also Eaglestaff said in a interview that he was coming here because his uncle was a legend at UND and wanted to play for the same school.  Not much recruiting done there.  I also heard that the reason why we got Omot was alot to do with Eaglestaff, again no recruiting there.    If UND alumni and lifetime residents love losing and giving coaches 10 years to finally decide if they can make it or not thats fine.  But other new fans like myself want to see some sort of success before I am going to spend money on tickets.  I dont expect championships, I just expect we are competitive and have a chance to win.  We won 2 conference games this year!    I still wonder how many years do you think a coach should have when after 4 years we have steadily sunk in the league.  If we are at the bottom next year give a 5 year extension because we have a nice guy?   Honest question please answer for me how many years would you give???  10 ? 15 ?   I know at my job if I didnt perform I wouldnt be given 4 years.   I want Sather to succeed and  I want UND to be successful.  I just dont know how long you can give a program.  My honest opinion is if next year we dont see some sort of improvement or if other star players transfer we move on.   

I think there are two ways a coach at the low/mid major level can go now in today's world:

1 - Keep doing right by your players...and if they burn you they burn you.  Recruit "diamonds in the rough" knowing full well that if they turn out there will be plenty of voices in their ears to look toward greener pastures.  In the end this could cause a coach his job if he can't get the ship righted in time...or

2 - No loyalty anymore!  It's win now or bust!  Recruit players knowing full well they're going to likely leave, thus if you don't get it done I'm gonna run you out of town to make room for that shiny object in the portal!  Hurt and don't want to risk damaging your body?  The hell with you then...I'm gonna play you til your wheels fall off then dump you on the side of the road for the next great prospect.  

I'd hope our coaches stick with option "1" but many will gravitate closer to option "2".  I know the argument has been that coaches are free to leave whenever, so players should be to.  But everything in our country is tit for tat...and I'm afraid the reaction to all the portal stuff won't be in the best long term interest of the student athlete.

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20 hours ago, coachdags said:

Coach Paul Sather is not the problem...

UND decided to enter the D1 Basketball sports horizon 350 Schools, then they need to invest into it. We have inadequate and dated facilities compared to other D1 institutions, I'm not even sure we can compete with our pier Schools like NDSU, SDSU, USD, OR in the Summit, and definitely not against the likes of Creighton, Minnesota, Northern Iowa, Wisconsin.  We need Locker Rooms, Weight Rooms, Study Areas, Film and Media Rooms, Entertainment Areas and more...

Our Collective Coaches Salary and Support Staff Budget is most likely under 500,000.

D1 Hockey is a regional sport at best with only 60+ Schools participating, we have a State of the Art Arena, Locker Rooms, Training Areas, Film, Media, Entertainment Rooms, Kitchen for meals, Study Areas, Weight Room, Practice ice and more...

Our Collective Coaches Salary and Support Staff Budget is probably over 1.5 million dollars +...

Bottom line is improve the areas that need improvement, more kids will come, they will stay, we will win.

Need to invest in the program to grow it, If Hockey never had Mr. Engelstad to invest starting back in the 80"s our program would never have reach the National Acclaim and heights it has.

We will never be a Duke, Kansas, Michigan State, but with some added investment by fans, alumni, UND it can be a solid Mid Major type Institution. 

Always so wise!

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1 hour ago, iramurphy said:

You are correct in your comment on building a fan base. I wouldn’t expect you to recruit but you actually support my opinion that you don’t understand recruiting. Your comments indicated an opinion that Sather’s recruiting successes didn’t require much recruiting. I disagree. The majority of us fans will judge good team vs bad team based solely on win/loss record and that makes sense. Judging the coach and program must go much deeper and is more complex. The record is an important part and ultimately, the deciding factor. I may be wrong but I believe Sather will get this program back on track. 

I think I have a basic idea of how recruiting goes.  I am not so ignorant.  I watch enough basketball and follow all the teams in the summit league to know when we get good recruits and when we dont.  I am comparing our recruits to the other schools in our conference and they dont measure up in alot of ways to the recruits from other schools.  Where do you put the blame then?  All other coaches in the conference seem to get better recruits going by records.  I have more praise for Coach Sather's coaching then his recruiting.  I am anxious to see how he does with these 3 scholarships he has.  I was excited last year when we got Norman And T, and after a year of watching them I was very disappointed in their performance.   You really wont know how a recruit does until after playing a year of division 1 ball.  I am more then a casual fan I watch and follow this league very closely.  In the end the record is all that counts.  If you want fans to come you need a good record.  Other then extreme loyalists no one wants to pay money to watch a team lose night in and night out.   I get there are fans and I see them at the games that will come cheer the team on no matter what the record, but I came to almost all the games and talking with people beside me there was alot of unhappy people with our team.  Will they be back next year? 

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14 minutes ago, NewUndFan said:

I think I have a basic idea of how recruiting goes.  I am not so ignorant.  I watch enough basketball and follow all the teams in the summit league to know when we get good recruits and when we dont.  I am comparing our recruits to the other schools in our conference and they dont measure up in alot of ways to the recruits from other schools.  Where do you put the blame then?  All other coaches in the conference seem to get better recruits going by records.  I have more praise for Coach Sather's coaching then his recruiting.  I am anxious to see how he does with these 3 scholarships he has.  I was excited last year when we got Norman And T, and after a year of watching them I was very disappointed in their performance.   You really wont know how a recruit does until after playing a year of division 1 ball.  I am more then a casual fan I watch and follow this league very closely.  In the end the record is all that counts.  If you want fans to come you need a good record.  Other then extreme loyalists no one wants to pay money to watch a team lose night in and night out.   I get there are fans and I see them at the games that will come cheer the team on no matter what the record, but I came to almost all the games and talking with people beside me there was alot of unhappy people with our team.  Will they be back next year? 

It’s always difficult to discuss on a fan board. Your points are well taken about fan support which is also a measure of how the program is progressing and certainly winning in today’s world is the bottom line. I’m not sure I blame anyone.  There are so many factors going back to the slow transition from D2 for all sports. There are always a core group of supporters who attend for whatever their reason or like basketball and can appreciate the play of the opposition. The group you describe is essential to building the program. 

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16 minutes ago, zonadub said:

2 consecutive Freshman of the Year ….  and Sather can’t recruit?  :blink:

were they freshmen of the year because they were good or because we had no one else to shoot the ball

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One of the reasons for transfers in my opinion is that kids today - especially those with talent - don't really want to play on 6 and 25 teams that are 2 and 16 in the conference.  Even if they like the school and the coach they will look to maximize their success.

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1 hour ago, zonadub said:

2 consecutive Freshman of the Year ….  and Sather can’t recruit?  :blink:

Kind of like the guy on his 5th marriage and every wife is hotter than the previous......

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40 minutes ago, Irish said:

One of the reasons for transfers in my opinion is that kids today - especially those with talent - don't really want to play on 6 and 25 teams that are 2 and 16 in the conference.  Even if they like the school and the coach they will look to maximize their success.

Other than Rebraca, who went to Iowa and was a completely separate incident, how exactly has that worked out for the players that have transferred?
A cursory glance says less minutes and less production on teams that haven't been much more successful.

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