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Remainder of 2020 Spring Season and Potential Playoffs.


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1 minute ago, siouxfan512 said:

Great write up. I had forgotten that the fall games played into this as well. 

Just glad to be talking football again after a long month!

The fall losses don't hurt MSU all that much. One was to Oklahoma, the other two were fairly close losses(6pt & 9pt) to a Central Arkansas team that would likely be fighting for a seed if they had chosen to play in the spring. MSU's problem is that their spring wins are very weak. WIU, SIU, USD, UNI, and a late-season YSU. Those teams have a combined conference record of 9-21. And with the exception of the YSU game, they were all one-score wins. They didn't get SDSU on their schedule, their game against UND was cancelled, and they weren't able to score even a point against NDSU(25-0).

The end result is that their resume has literally no highlights. There's nothing super negative about it, but nothing good either. That's not going to cut it when we're talking about a situation where the MVFC would be getting 50% of the at-large bids. For that to happen, every MVFC at-large candidate would have to have great resume compared to the other bubble teams.

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So just read one of McFeely's articles on twiiter (Yeah I know he's terrible). According to the MVFC associate commissioner the SDSU vs NDSU game will decide who gets the automatic qualifier. Even if NDSU were to lose which puts them at 2 loses they will still be in? If SDSU and UND win, SDSU will get the AQ even after UND beat them (dominated that game by the way). SDSU gets the edge if they were to beat NDSU this Saturday. 

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Did he discuss what would happen if SDSU beat NDSU on Saturday to give NDSU their 2nd loss and we win our game. I would assume we would be ahead of NDSU right?  We wouldn’t be the 3rd seed out of conference right?

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Here are the tie-breaker rules:
https://herosports.com/fcs-football-conference-tiebreaker-playoff-auto-bid-bzbz/

In the event of SDSU beating NDSU and UND beating YSU, those 3 would be tied. Since MSU didn't play either team, the tie-breaker falls to common opponents between the 3 and goes all the way down to #4, which is record against common conference opponents. In this instance, all 3 would have played WIU, YSU, NDSU and SIU. UND and MSU would be 3-1 against those 4 and SDSU would theoretically end at 4-0. 

Its unfortunate, but UND's win over SDSU doesn't give them the tie-breaker in a 3 team scenario, only a 2 team scenario.

Quote

MVFC

In the event a full schedule is played by all members, standings shall follow normal tiebreaking procedures. If any game is canceled due to COVID-related matters, the game will be registered as a “no contest.” 

Title and AQ Eligibility Standards

To be eligible for the regular-season title and automatic bid to the NCAA Championship:

If 75 percent or more league games are played (30 of 40), a team must play no less than two fewer conference games than the average number of conference games played by all teams to be eligible.

If fewer than 75 percent of the league games are played, a team must play no less than one fewer conference game than the average number of conference games played by all teams to be eligible.

# of Games Played Scenarios

40-All Games — full schedule, normal tiebreaker

35-39 games (7.0 avg. GP – 7.9 avg. GP) — 5 games required to be eligible

25-34 games (5.0 avg. GP – 6.9 avg. GP) — 4 games required to be eligible

20-24 games (4.0 avg. GP – 4.9 avg. GP) — 3 games required to be eligible

Fewer than 20 total games (less than 50 percent games played) .. no minimum threshold

*A team may add a loss (or losses) to its record to meet minimum games-played thresholds for regular-season title and AQ consideration.

Standings shall be determined according to respective won-lost records and winning percentages in Conference games. The team with the best won-lost percentage shall be champion.

In the event of an unbalanced schedule due to cancellation of games: If two (or more) teams have the same number of conference losses but a different number of conference wins, head-to-head results will take precedence over winning percentage, as long as the two (or more) teams meet minimum number of games language noted above.

If the game was canceled between two teams with the same winning percentage in all conference games or the same number of conference losses but a different number of conference wins, move to tiebreaker for two teams below. If a game or games was canceled between three or more teams with the same winning percentage in all conference games or the same number of conference losses but a different number of conference wins, move to tiebreaker for three or more teams below.

Two Teams Tied
1. In the event of a two-team tie in the conference results and the two teams played each other, the winner of the game shall be declared the NCAA automatic qualifier.
2. If the tied teams did not play each other, then each team’s record against all common conference opponents shall be used to determine the NCAA automatic qualifier.  
3. If the teams are still tied, then each team’s record against the next highest common opponent in the conference standings shall be used to determine the NCAA automatic qualifier.
4. If the teams are still tied, the latest available Sagarin Rating shall be used as the final tiebreaker. Rating will only be used as a ranking system or tiebreaker in the event all teams under consideration have played a minimum of 8 total (non-conference plus conference) games. In the event only a partial schedule is played and Sagarin cannot be utilized, the Conference will utilize the Media (STATS) Top 25 poll to break the tie.

Three or More Teams Tied
1. If at any point a tie is broken using the multiple-tie tiebreaker procedures and only two teams remain tied, the remaining teams shall revert to the two-way tiebreaker (See above).
2. If the tied teams all played one another, the team with the best cumulative record involving games among the tied teams shall be declared the NCAA automatic qualifier.
3. If the tied teams all played one another and have identical records against the other tied teams, then each team’s record against all common conference opponents shall be used to determine the NCAA automatic bid.  If teams are still tied, then each team’s record against the next highest common opponent in the conference standings shall determine the automatic bid.
4. If the tied teams did not play each other, then each team’s record against common conference opponents shall be used to determine the automatic bid. If the tied teams did not play each other, but one team played and defeated the other two teams, that team is the champion.
5. If the teams are still tied and they did not play each other, then each team’s record against the next highest common opponent in the conference standings shall determine the automatic bid.
6. If the teams are still tied, the latest available Sagarin Rating shall be used as the final tiebreaker. Sagarin Rating will only be used as a ranking system or tiebreaker in the event all teams under consideration have played a minimum of 8 total (non-conference plus conference) games. In the event only a partial schedule is played and Sagarin cannot be utilized, the Conference will utilize the Media (STATS) Top 25 poll to break the tie. 

 

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So if Missouri St, SDSU and UND all finish with 1 loss in conference and NDSU finishes with 2 losses. Is UND seeded 2,3 or 4 out of conference? And where are Missouri and NDSU seeded?

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16 minutes ago, Und246 said:

So if Missouri St, SDSU and UND all finish with 1 loss in conference and NDSU finishes with 2 losses. Is UND seeded 2,3 or 4 out of conference? And where are Missouri and NDSU seeded?

Missouri State is on the outside looking in.  They take into account the fall season as well.  MSU was 0-3 in the fall.  They are a bubble team that would need some help.

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1 hour ago, Und246 said:

So if Missouri St, SDSU and UND all finish with 1 loss in conference and NDSU finishes with 2 losses. Is UND seeded 2,3 or 4 out of conference? And where are Missouri and NDSU seeded?

There really isn't any "seeding" from the conference. There is an autobid winner, which only guarantees a playoff spot. The playoff committee, particularly with the unbalanced schedules this year, aren't going to specifically use conference standings as they determine things. If SDSU were to win, NDSU would be 4th in the conference, but they are very likely to get in, while MSU is likely on the outside looking in. Oddly enough, it's NDSU's win over UND that will put them over the top (plus they stomped MSU). 

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5 hours ago, Und246 said:

Did he discuss what would happen if SDSU beat NDSU on Saturday to give NDSU their 2nd loss and we win our game. I would assume we would be ahead of NDSU right?  We wouldn’t be the 3rd seed out of conference right?

Based on who they have beat I believe they would still be in. 

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10 hours ago, jdub27 said:

There really isn't any "seeding" from the conference. There is an autobid winner, which only guarantees a playoff spot. The playoff committee, ... 

... decides everything regarding the bracketing. 

Welcome to the true land of "Stogies, Scotch, and Smoke-filled Back Rooms". 

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37 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

... decides everything regarding the bracketing. 

Welcome to the true land of "Stogies, Scotch, and Smoke-filled Back Rooms". 

I would say this applies to more than playoffs, IMHO!!!

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38 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

... decides everything regarding the bracketing. 

Welcome to the true land of "Stogies, Scotch, and Smoke-filled Back Rooms". 

At the long haul saloon

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12 minutes ago, gfhockey said:

At the long haul saloon

No, like it or not, FCS is controlled by NDSU right now and their version of the %gobc meets at the Breakwind* at the F'n J in Fargo.

When Bubba overthrows that regime it'll move to the Long Haul. Until then, it is what it is. 

 

*It's really WindBreak but my way seems more accurate. ;) 

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A bit of a diversion here: Is it just me or does anyone else notice a lack of build-up for the big "rivalry" game this weekend down south. Not even a hint of friendly smack outside the message board crowds of the two schools? Nowhere near the banter and media focus (Forum Comm) that was taking place in the days prior to March 20 -- even in a pandemic-impacted season.  As an outsider looking in, it just doesn't have the vibe of a true rivalry game yet. I've heard it lacks the sheer hatred of typical rivalries (Yanks/Sox, Cards/Cubs, Giants/Cowboys, UND-NDSU of old, etc.) because the two programs have such great respect for each other. IALTO. But IMHO you can have both hatred and respect. The Marker Game just seems "meh" to me, at this point. That's my hot take. Take it or leave it. :)

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I was thinking the same thing

the UND ndsu rivalry will take off once we beat them

do you think ndsu students really care about the game with sdsu

the hype down south comes from the forum reporters and who cares what mcfooley thinks , he should move to South Dakota according to him

 

 

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7 hours ago, Teeder11 said:

A bit of a diversion here: Is it just me or does anyone else notice a lack of build-up for the big "rivalry" game this weekend down south. Not even a hint of friendly smack outside the message board crowds of the two schools? Nowhere near the banter and media focus (Forum Comm) that was taking place in the days prior to March 20 -- even in a pandemic-impacted season.  As an outsider looking in, it just doesn't have the vibe of a true rivalry game yet. I've heard it lacks the sheer hatred of typical rivalries (Yanks/Sox, Cards/Cubs, Giants/Cowboys, UND-NDSU of old, etc.) because the two programs have such great respect for each other. IALTO. But IMHO you can have both hatred and respect. The Marker Game just seems "meh" to me, at this point. That's my hot take. Take it or leave it. :)

I would agree with all of that.  The NDSU/SDSU game is always a very important game for both schools recently because they are both good and in hunt for top playoff spots.  But I think you are right, neither team really hates each other, or so it seems.  However I'm sure there are a lot of SDSU fans that hate NDSU, that's because NDSU always beats them in the important games.  SDSU has knocked them off a couple of times, but never when it really counted.....in the playoffs.  I don't think NDSU really even has a team they hate right now, I think it used to be Northern Iowa....but now they've beaten them 7 straight times I think it is.  You have to lose a couple of big games to truly hate a team.  I think more NDSU fans hate NIU verses SDSU, but as I said even that is diminishing.  JMU was the last team to beat NDSU when it counted, so I think fans would consider them a rival, but again not a hated rival. 

I can't wait for NDSU to hate us again, which means we are winning some of those games.  With their FBS QB and RB transfers....they are going to be tough to beat this fall.  

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I think UND makes the playoffs.  I also think they host the first weekend.  I really hope that they will reschedule the Senior day festivities for that first weekend to allow these Seniors to get the recognition they deserve.  Not sure if there are any NCAA regulations for playoff games that would somehow prevent that, but I really hope UND would be able to do that. 

 

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41 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

I think UND makes the playoffs.  I also think they host the first weekend.  I really hope that they will reschedule the Senior day festivities for that first weekend to allow these Seniors to get the recognition they deserve.  Not sure if there are any NCAA regulations for playoff games that would somehow prevent that, but I really hope UND would be able to do that. 

 

100% UND is in the playoffs. I think 98% UND hosting(I'm fairly certain UND will get the 4 seed - but even hosting if they don't). I think you'd be pretty safe on the Senior Day stuff. It's a bit of a stretch*, but I think the rules would be relaxed this crazy year.

 

*NCAA is fine with hosting schools doing all of their regular home game stuff as long as it isn't mocking or degrading to the other team. ex. "That's another FIRST DOWN!" is fine; a recording of crying baby sounds when the opposing coach argues with an official is not. Senior Day stuff is not regular for a home game, but it's also not degrading at all to the visiting team. Would probably be a no go in a standard year, but a decent shot this year.

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11 minutes ago, Hammersmith said:

100% UND is in the playoffs. I think 98% UND hosting(I'm fairly certain UND will get the 4 seed - but even hosting if they don't).

I like your words, but unless you can tell me this year's "Stogies, Scotch, and Smoke-filled Room" selection committee admittance password (to the backroom at the BreakWind, um ..., WindBreak, at the Fargo Flying J*) I'm not believing until Sunday morning and the release of the bracket. 

 

*defending champion always hosts the smoke-filled room selection committee meeting in a most glorious locale ;) 

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15 minutes ago, Hammersmith said:

100% UND is in the playoffs. I think 98% UND hosting(I'm fairly certain UND will get the 4 seed - but even hosting if they don't). I think you'd be pretty safe on the Senior Day stuff. It's a bit of a stretch*, but I think the rules would be relaxed this crazy year.

 

*NCAA is fine with hosting schools doing all of their regular home game stuff as long as it isn't mocking or degrading to the other team. ex. "That's another FIRST DOWN!" is fine; a recording of crying baby sounds when the opposing coach argues with an official is not. Senior Day stuff is not regular for a home game, but it's also not degrading at all to the visiting team. Would probably be a no go in a standard year, but a decent shot this year.

Not sure how you are so confident UND would be a 4 seed; I would be surprised. Maybe that comes from years of UND not being ranked up near the top, maybe its because this Spring season is so strange. UND (not by their own choice) has done nothing in the last month. We had a nice start to the season, got beat by NDSU and have been practicing ever since.

-NDSU or SDSU get a spot

-Weber will likely get one, though from what I have read they have been less than impressive as a 5-0 team and could easily get bounced in the playoffs.

-Sam Houston will get one.

-JMU and Delaware are both undefeated, but have a combined 1 win against a ranked opponent. This is the only spot you could make the argument for UND, is we have beat multiple ranked opponents, and our only loss is to the Bison. As I am typing this, I also see that both of those team currently only have 4 wins as well, but Delaware still plays Villanova this weekend and James Madison plays Richmond. I would think UND would need both JMU and Delaware to lose, but maybe that doesn't matter based on strength of schedule.

Would it help us if the Bison won this weekend? Maybe, in the eyes of the committee. Could it not make a difference in getting a seed; again, maybe, in the eyes of the committee. Tough to know what they will do or think given how strange this year is. I would be ecstatic if we were a seed, purely to solidify home field advantage, but I won't count on it either. Maybe a little of that MVFC love could finally play in our favor.

Regardless of what happens, we are in! Time to put in a strong showing and get some playoff wins. I don't want to add any more memories to the Richmond/Nicholls St category.

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