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2020 non UND FCS thread


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39 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said:

How many recruiting battles did you win this year against P5 schools? So you really think G5 talent is gonna compete with the big boys every single week?

Weve done pretty well while not having the same scholarship levels. When we have 85 that will give us more depth and better able to compete every week. It will take some time but I would think we will start getting more high profile recruits.

 

Just think if we would have listened to you the last time we made a move up we wouldnt have won the last 9 National Championships and created  one of the greatest dynasties in football history.

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32 minutes ago, bison73 said:

Weve done pretty well while not having the same scholarship levels. When we have 85 that will give us more depth and better able to compete every week. It will take some time but I would think we will start getting more high profile recruits.

 

Just think if we would have listened to you the last time we made a move up we wouldnt have won the last 9 National Championships and created  one of the greatest dynasties in football history.

Yeah those egos are not getting any smaller…….. NDSU has proven they can recruit G5 talent but recruiting P5 talent is unproven. How will NDSU win recruiting battles against Minnesota and Wisconsin once they are FBS? ???

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7 hours ago, Sioux>Bison said:

Yeah those egos are not getting any smaller…….. NDSU has proven they can recruit G5 talent but recruiting P5 talent is unproven. How will NDSU win recruiting battles against Minnesota and Wisconsin once they are FBS? ???

 

7 hours ago, Sioux>Bison said:

Yeah those egos are not getting any smaller…….. NDSU has proven they can recruit G5 talent but recruiting P5 talent is unproven. How will NDSU win recruiting battles against Minnesota and Wisconsin once they are FBS? ???

So once we are FBS I think we do well against those guys. Why because they cant offer every kid out there. NDSU has a pretty good name so with going FBS we win some of those battles.   All??? Nope.

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On 1/16/2022 at 1:26 AM, ND-fan said:

I stated it before only logical fit for FBS conference would be if Montana, Montana State, North Dakota State, Und, SDSU, USD, Northern Iowa, Idaho state, Eastern Washington, Idaho, and utah and Northern Colorado formed a conference. Even with the names listed above i don't know how many would want to move up but this would have foot print that would make sense it would limit distant travel and if enough would join you could have east/west spliit in the conference to also limit travel and costs . If it was marketed right getting right media company that wanted to provide sports tv to the states in this conference there could be some television money. Also most national markets wouldn't want to regionalize a market to small market states that this conference would be in so if was done right conference and tv provider would need to be almost partners in developing and marketing this conference to this region of the country. The big time p5 schools are basically doing this now national level and i don't see their numbers increasing because adding more schools just dilutes amount of money being shared when adding more schools. If anything we could see a drop in p5 schools because they don't improve the revenue shared to pot because of tv viewership and other media revenue they can generate for other p5 schools. This sounds like were getting away from basic of college sports but this has been happening in last 20 years and unless their is political change i just see this continuing down this path. We have done this on national scale and next step is for local media company working with smaller college conferences selling this on regional basis as subscription to watch their favorite teams. But until this happens i don't see where NDSU or most of FCS schools and small mid major schools will be moving even to G5 conference because most of these conferences are near what they want for membership. These changes could happen quite quickly or may never happen depending how much change smaller division I schools are willing to accept and if there are smaller local media companies willing to grow and put media business  company together sell conference on regional basis. I think this may happen but until somebody does it and makes it successful it won't become the thing to do.

might want to rethink some of the schools in your opening couple of lines.....

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9 hours ago, Sioux>Bison said:

Yeah those egos are not getting any smaller…….. NDSU has proven they can recruit G5 talent but recruiting P5 talent is unproven. How will NDSU win recruiting battles against Minnesota and Wisconsin once they are FBS? ???

You are overlooking a key point. In this hypothetical recruiting situation, NDSU would no longer be FCS, they’d be G5 FBS. G5 teams win recruiting battles against P5 teams hundreds of times a year. Playing time, culture, connection with the coaching staff…etc.

 

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The move to FBS level and also moving all your sports to next level i have hard time seeing where the benefit is for NDSU especially how most G5 conferences are half way across the nation for possible fits for NDSU. There is probably enough revenue to fund the football program and first few years there would be enough fan interest of playing at this different level. I still see problem in generating additional revenue to fund all other sports NDSU has now because the costs will go up for these sports as well when you jump a level and additional travel costs. Other costs is when jumping a level will be coaching costs, costs of bringing in teams for home games, and also additional overhead costs to administer these additional staffs and fund raising to keep athletic department funded. (Look what Craig Bohl is getting for salary at Wyoming as head coach is 1 million more than you are paying now.)  I just think the fan support you have had from region will drop because reason for this growth in fan interest has been your playing for national championship. The casual fan can Identify with this and also the playoff system where you have had couple of home games that local television coverage across the whole state. Then add in championship game in Texas right after first of year it has become mini vacation to get away from the cold weather and the holidays were over. Now we get to small g5 conference and if you win it have record that is good enough to be invited to bowl game that will be played week before Christmas or couple of days after Christmas which could be played on Thursday, Friday, Monday, or Tuesday the number of fans going to the game is going to be diminished especially around Christmas. Also number people able to watch the game will be less because people will be working and season is busy with other activities.  I guess as North Dakotan and specially non Bison fan i am not going to go out my way for bowl game where before i have watched because they represented state and region when they were playing in Frisco. I may be wrong but some where in my gut if this doesn't work out as tax payer of North Dakota i may have to come in cover the short fall or at least finance them until they can restructure athletic department.

The bottom line I have number other reason but this getting too long already.  I just think for the state, region, and all the colleges when we have all major universities in same conference in Dakota's and surrounding universities brings most fan interest for college sports. I have long ago realized we are not populated enough and will never have resources to compete in P5 conference and only way it will work if most universities want to play up level  to g5 we will need to form our own conference to do so.

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10 hours ago, Bison06 said:

You are overlooking a key point. In this hypothetical recruiting situation, NDSU would no longer be FCS, they’d be G5 FBS. G5 teams win recruiting battles against P5 teams hundreds of times a year. Playing time, culture, connection with the coaching staff…etc.

 

For arguments sake ....

I remember a pretty good D2 UND team moving up to D1 (far later than they should have). At that point they had a pretty good name at the D2 level, and they moved up to FCS, so with your logic we should have had no issues recruiting against the NDSU, SDSU, UNI, Montana type schools .... right? Simply being an FCS team should be enough to win FCS recruits, just as simple being FBS should be enough to win FBS recruits.

Now obviously there is some satire and extremism in my response, but I think you get my point. I'm not going to say NDSU couldn't find some success at the FBS level, because honestly, who the hell know. They could jump up and surprise some people and give themselves something to build on, or they could struggle for a few years and really just bury themselves into an FBS hole, which would leave their FCS success as nothing more than a memory of what was (still a pretty great memory).

Now this isn't directed at you, but there are so many uneducated and dumb Bison fans (just as UND has a ton of uneducated and dumb hockey fans), who believe the team, program and success comes from the name. We're Bison football so we are untouchable, just as many UND fans think UND hockey should be untouchable even though there are a ton of other factors that go into maintaining success; there are only more of those factors as you move up.

This could not have been more well represented than by Izzo's comments in the last week. To essential say, NDSU can play for FCS Championships, or FBS Championships is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. NDSU is good and we all know it, but they are a far cry from a dominant Power 5 team that will win week in and week out against that caliber of talent. Now, I don't blame Izzo. He is doing his job and adding fuel to the fire where, as I mentioned, there is already a large subset of very delusional fans. Most aren't that delusional, but we all know there are truly those people who believe NDSU would be Alabama. C'mon Man!

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As football fans how many of you watch a g5 game that is on tv?  When I see one I usually skip over it and look for a p5 game.  Even the p5 games I look at who is playing before watching it.  I also notice the stands are pretty empty at a lot of g5 games.  Attendance at a lot of sporting events is down.  I don’t think Und hockey has the vibe it once did.  If ndsu wants to move up let them go.  Does bison 73 post this stuff on bisonville where it belongs?

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The cries of “we want ‘Bama” and “no FBS schools will play us in the preseason” should come together. Why hasn’t NDSU scheduled Alabama for a preseason game? I doubt Saban would say no.
 

How about Georgia or even LSU?

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21 hours ago, bison73 said:

Weve done pretty well while not having the same scholarship levels. When we have 85 that will give us more depth and better able to compete every week. It will take some time but I would think we will start getting more high profile recruits.

 

Just think if we would have listened to you the last time we made a move up we wouldnt have won the last 9 National Championships and created  one of the greatest dynasties in football history.

A G5 NDSU is going to be able to keep those recruits that they lost to Minnesota and Wisconsin compared to the FCS NDSU? 

More scholarships will give you more depth but having more of them isn’t going to automatically going to help you recruit elite P5 talent. 
 

 

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11 hours ago, Bison06 said:

You are overlooking a key point. In this hypothetical recruiting situation, NDSU would no longer be FCS, they’d be G5 FBS. G5 teams win recruiting battles against P5 teams hundreds of times a year. Playing time, culture, connection with the coaching staff…etc.

 

Yeah recruiting elite talent to Fargo is going to be easy……. NDSU already has G5 level facilities but are they going to be enough to beat out P5 facilities and programs? Some of the local talent will still cut it at a G5 NDSU but they will have to rely on out of the region talent to fill their roster especially if they want elite P5 talent. 

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48 minutes ago, zonadub said:

The cries of “we want ‘Bama” and “no FBS schools will play us in the preseason” should come together. Why hasn’t NDSU scheduled Alabama for a preseason game? I doubt Saban would say no.
 

How about Georgia or even LSU?

The cries about not being able to schedule P5 teams is only partially true. 
Have they had struggles doing it? Without a doubt, scheduling them carries risk for anyone doing it.
But, have they turned down P5 game offers because they feel like the payout wasn't high enough? Absolutely.

Anyone, anywhere, any time.......as long as we feel like we're getting paid enough.....;)

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2 hours ago, Sioux>Bison said:

Yeah recruiting elite talent to Fargo is going to be easy……. NDSU already has G5 level facilities but are they going to be enough to beat out P5 facilities and programs? Some of the local talent will still cut it at a G5 NDSU but they will have to rely on out of the region talent to fill their roster especially if they want elite P5 talent. 

You seem to be under the illusion that every FBS team is Georgia, Alabama, Clemson and Ohio State.

Every year there are anywhere from 2-6 teams that are so far above everyone else that nobody, even at the FBS level can touch them. The rest of FBS is filled with 3 star recruits with 4 stars occasionally and extremely rare 5 star guys.

NDSU will almost certainly never be in that elite 2-6 teams. I have no illusion of that. They play a different game, they are the NFL minor league. Everyone else on any given year is beatable and I think over the course of many years NDSU could find itself competing with them if they were to move up.

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2 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

You seem to be under the illusion that every FBS team is Georgia, Alabama, Clemson and Ohio State.

Every year there are anywhere from 2-6 teams that are so far above everyone else that nobody, even at the FBS level can touch them. The rest of FBS is filled with 3 star recruits with 4 stars occasionally and extremely rare 5 star guys.

NDSU will almost certainly never be in that elite 2-6 teams. I have no illusion of that. They play a different game, they are the NFL minor league. Everyone else on any given year is beatable and I think over the course of many years NDSU could find itself competing with them if they were to move up.

And again, if the playoff would expand to 12 teams, this would have been a year when NDSU would have been in the mix for a playoff spot. To play Georgia. Or Alabama. Or Michigan. Or keep playing Western Illinois, whatever.

tell that to dominque

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13 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

And again, if the playoff would expand to 12 teams, this would have been a year when NDSU would have been in the mix for a playoff spot. To play Georgia. Or Alabama. Or Michigan. Or keep playing Western Illinois, whatever.

tell that to dominque

His comments are certainly premature and overzealous and I don’t agree with him about this years ndsu team.

But look at it this way, on NDSUs best years, where do you think they would rank among only G5 teams?  I think they would have been near the top of G5 teams in 2013 and maybe a few other years in this 10 year run. If that’s true, and maybe you disagree with that, are you saying that in a 12 team playoff a G5 team or two wouldn’t find their way into the tournament? 

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3 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

His comments are certainly premature and overzealous and I don’t agree with him about this years ndsu team.

But look at it this way, on NDSUs best years, where do you think they would rank among only G5 teams?  I think they would have been near the top of G5 teams in 2013 and maybe a few other years in this 10 year run. If that’s true, and maybe you disagree with that, are you saying that in a 12 team playoff a G5 team or two wouldn’t find their way into the tournament? 

what you fargo fantasy footballers don't realize that actually PLAYING a FBS schedule versus a FCS schedule doesn't compare or compute ....it just doesn't work. It's no different that Ferris State doing the same thing to FCS or Mary Hardin Baylor saying the same thing about d2.

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3 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

what you fargo fantasy footballers don't realize that actually PLAYING a FBS schedule versus a FCS schedule doesn't compare or compute ....it just doesn't work. It's no different that Ferris State doing the same thing to FCS or Mary Hardin Baylor saying the same thing about d2.

2 things.
 

Why not engage with the questions I posed?

Again, if ndsu moved to FBS, by definition they’d now be an FBS team with FBS scholarships and FBS depth. So yeah, as it sits, ndsu as an FCS team would struggle with a full FBS schedule, but the parameters would be obviously different if ndsu had FBS depth. Which they would if they moved up.

 

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19 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

His comments are certainly premature and overzealous and I don’t agree with him about this years ndsu team.

But look at it this way, on NDSUs best years, where do you think they would rank among only G5 teams?  I think they would have been near the top of G5 teams in 2013 and maybe a few other years in this 10 year run. If that’s true, and maybe you disagree with that, are you saying that in a 12 team playoff a G5 team or two wouldn’t find their way into the tournament? 

Likely similar to an undefeated Coastal Carolina who, 11-0, were ranked 12. I have a theory though, that if the playoffs are expanded the rankings will favor P5 schools with a loss or two over the undefeated low G5 teams like Coastal. Meaning, they would find a way to rank them outside the top 12 and slide in a 1 or 2 loss team with blue blood.

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17 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

His comments are certainly premature and overzealous and I don’t agree with him about this years ndsu team.

But look at it this way, on NDSUs best years, where do you think they would rank among only G5 teams?  I think they would have been near the top of G5 teams in 2013 and maybe a few other years in this 10 year run. If that’s true, and maybe you disagree with that, are you saying that in a 12 team playoff a G5 team or two wouldn’t find their way into the tournament? 

q1-who f'n knows and same thing could said for ferris state and mount union

q2-absolutely not...a 1 or 2 loss team from the big12, big 10, acc, sec, .....get in before a 0 loss Akron Zips or Ragin' Cajuns....

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6 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

Likely similar to an undefeated Coastal Carolina who, 11-0, were ranked 12. I have a theory though, that if the playoffs are expanded the rankings will favor P5 schools with a loss or two over the undefeated low G5 teams like Coastal. Meaning, they would find a way to rank them outside the top 12 and slide in a 1 or 2 loss team with blue blood.

I agree on your coastal Carolina point.

And unfortunately your likely spot on with FBS working to keep the tournament seeds “in house”. But it would be more fun for fans if it were merit based.

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4 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

q1-who f'n knows and same thing could said for ferris state and mount union

q2-absolutely not...a 1 or 2 loss team from the big12, big 10, acc, sec, .....get in before a 0 loss Akron Zips or Ragin' Cajuns....

Q2. You realize that you say that in a year that an undefeated G5 team(cincinatti)was included in a 4 team tournament?

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Just now, Bison06 said:

Q2. You realize that you say that in a year that an undefeated G5 team(cincinatti)was included in a 4 team tournament?

and you saw what happened....same thing with notre dame...fool me once shame on......

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12-1 Houston ranked 18 in 2015.
13-0 Western Michigan ranked 15 in 2016.

12-0 UCF ranked 12 in 2017.

12-0 UCF ranked 8 in 2018.

12-1 Memphis ranked 17 in 2019.

9-0 Cincy in ranked 8 2020.

13-0 Cincy ranked 4 in 2021. 
 

As you can see if you’re G5 you don’t get respect. The only exception is Cincy recently. For a G5 school their name does carry some weight, though, because of their basketball success. An 11 win NDSU team would maybe get looked at for a 12 team playoff if they had a big ranked win. Even then it’s a maybe. Coastal Carolina had ranked wins against #8 BYU and #21 ULL in 2020 and got sent to the FBC Mortgage Cure Bowl. Let that sink in.

 

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Just now, SIOUXFAN97 said:

and you saw what happened....same thing with notre dame...fool me once shame on......

How they competed is not part of this discussion in the slightest. However if you watched the game, I thought Cincinnati competed incredibly well. Did you watch the game or just look at the score?

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