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2020 Dumpster Fire (Enter at your own risk)

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38 minutes ago, UNDlaw80 said:

You don’t even need common sense to understand this.  All you need is eyes and ears.  

In Trump’s recent press conference he not only refused to condemn the right-wing thugs in Portland, he justified their actions.  


If you don’t think this flat out incites violence, I have a bridge to sell you.  

How has he specifically justified the "right-wing thugs"?  His words, not the recaps.

Every clip I've seen from Biden and Trump condemns the violence.  Trump won't specifically condemn the violence acts of the "right-wing thugs" and Biden won't condemn the violent acts of BLM and antifa.

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Just now, TheFlop said:

You mean if you test positive there is a 60-70% chance you are actually positive?  .....or if you text negative there is also a considerable chance you really aren't negative?  If you want to participate in a war of attrition have at it, but for the vast majority of Americans it is unnecessary.  

Once again, what is acceptable?  How long?  With the understanding it will never disappear, 5 years from now if one kid gets Covid does his/her entire class lose 2 weeks of class/sports?

Where's the study confirming a 30-40% positive error rate?  That's just a ridiculous thing to make up.

What's acceptable changes depending on who you talk to.  Personally, I don't think social distancing and wearing a mask in public is too much of a burden, but I understand some others have different feelings on that for various reasons.  As for timing, we know much more about how to treat the virus now than we did 6 months ago.  Our testing ability is 10x better now than it was 6 months ago.  We'll have quick response tests and a vaccine (of admittedly questionable value at this point, as the studies have not been completed) available soon, likely by the end of the year.  5 years from now, most of the class will have been vaccinated, so no.  In the short term, the virus is gonna virus, but we can take certain steps to limit mass outbreaks.

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14 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Where's the study confirming a 30-40% positive error rate?  That's just a ridiculous thing to make up.

What's acceptable changes depending on who you talk to.  Personally, I don't think social distancing and wearing a mask in public is too much of a burden, but I understand some others have different feelings on that for various reasons.  As for timing, we know much more about how to treat the virus now than we did 6 months ago.  Our testing ability is 10x better now than it was 6 months ago.  We'll have quick response tests and a vaccine (of admittedly questionable value at this point, as the studies have not been completed) available soon, likely by the end of the year.  5 years from now, most of the class will have been vaccinated, so no.  In the short term, the virus is gonna virus, but we can take certain steps to limit mass outbreaks.

The false negatives have the biggest error factor.  

If wearing a mask into a store and some (but not absolute) social distancing was the extent of it you wouldn't have the fight that you have now.  I think most people can get on board with that even with the debate about how effective masks really are.  Where the fight comes in is when an outdoor venue like the Grand Forks Speedway that can seat 5,000-6000 arbitrarily has their seating cut down from 3000 (half capacity) to 1500 because "not enough people were wearing masks" at an outdoor venue that was maybe 1/2 full.  It's when instead of cutting down class sizes or spacing out the seats a bit....the class is cancelled all together.  It's the hypocrisy of "protestors" being allowed to congregate in large numbers but churches and youth sports being banned from doing the same.  

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2 minutes ago, TheFlop said:

Where the fight comes in is when an outdoor venue like the Grand Forks Speedway that can seat 5,000-6000 arbitrarily has their seating cut down from 3000 (half capacity) to 1500 because "not enough people were wearing masks" at an outdoor venue that was maybe 1/2 full.  It's when instead of cutting down class sizes or spacing out the seats a bit....the class is cancelled all together.  It's the hypocrisy of "protestors" being allowed to congregate in large numbers but churches and youth sports being banned from doing the same.  

Agreed.  Those are a problem and the lack of consistency has rightfully led many to question the validity of any of the measures being required.  The only one I could maybe agree with is if they have data proving the 3k capacity for the speedway was leading to mass spread of the virus.  I haven't heard/read about them saying it was an issue discovered via contact tracing, so I'm left to assume you are correct and it was an arbitrary decision.

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49 minutes ago, Redneksioux said:

You don’t get it do you? If you get behind the wheel drunk as a skunk with your thirteen your old in the back seat are you endangering only your and your child’s lives?

 

And it’s not called freedom, it’s called following the guidelines of whose property you are on. Don’t like it and you will be trespassed. You get that don’t you?

 

First. No you don't get it. This isn't the same thing. You're making it sound as if preventing the spread of Coronavirus is the same as driving drunk. It's not.

It's a virus. What next. Prosecuting people for not wearing a mask? However, I know people that were very careful and still got COVID-19. Like others have said, at what point will this drill be over? Someone I know personally, who;'s a nurse, said it's a virus, eventually, we're probably all going to get it. 

 

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1 hour ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

You are aware that FOX spins his comments?
FOX anchors have their hands full with Trump comments in downplaying or neutralizing them.
A kind of spin that is unpresedented.
 

FreeIceFishReports.jpg

 

You do know Trump was compalining about voter fraud over the last month, now yesterday asking his supporters to vote twice.

The media plays to the 7 out of 10 rule.

Congrats on being a part of that group.

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30 minutes ago, Goon said:

First. No you don't get it. This isn't the same thing. You're making it sound as if preventing the spread of Coronavirus is the same as driving drunk. It's not.

It's a virus. What next. Prosecuting people for not wearing a mask? However, I know people that were very careful and still got COVID-19. Like others have said, at what point will this drill be over? Someone I know personally, who;'s a nurse, said it's a virus, eventually, we're probably all going to get it. 

 

We all know it’s a virus. If you had HIV would you feel it was your civil liberty to spread that virus? How about TB?

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1 hour ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

You are aware that FOX spins his comments?
FOX anchors have their hands full with Trump comments in downplaying or neutralizing them.
A kind of spin that is unpresedented.
 

FreeIceFishReports.jpg

 

You do know Trump was compalining about voter fraud over the last month, now yesterday asking his supporters to vote twice.

Here's the actual quote, yet this gets spun into endorsing voter fraud.

“They will vote and then they are going to have to check their vote by going to the poll and voting that way because if it tabulates then they won’t be able to do that. So let them send it in, and let them go vote. And if the system is as good as they say it is, then they obviously won’t be able to vote,” Trump told WECT News. “If it isn’t tabulated, they will be able to vote. So that’s the way it is, and that’s what they should do.” 

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3 hours ago, UNDBIZ said:

Although I'd like it to be able to work this way, what does the nursing home RN do with her high school aged child?  How about her husband who's employed at Simplot or LM?  

That's the 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon I previously discussed or the Ferris Bueller 31 Flavors scenario that leads down a rabbit hole that has zero end game. Unfortunately the examples you give are called "life".......some can handle it and continue to enjoy living. Others......well just scroll through the pages here.

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39 minutes ago, Walsh Hall said:

Here's the actual quote, yet this gets spun into endorsing voter fraud.

“They will vote and then they are going to have to check their vote by going to the poll and voting that way because if it tabulates then they won’t be able to do that. So let them send it in, and let them go vote. And if the system is as good as they say it is, then they obviously won’t be able to vote,” Trump told WECT News. “If it isn’t tabulated, they will be able to vote. So that’s the way it is, and that’s what they should do.” 

Seems like a pretty harmless statement....unless folks don't actually have faith in the voting by mail system they allege is ABSOLUTELY VITAL to our elections.

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2 hours ago, TheFlop said:

From the sound of it Oxbow has made educated decisions based on the information available and determined what is reasonable and isn't reasonable and chosen to live his life....so bad example there.  He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming he does what he can to sanitize and wear the proper equipment at his job, but even so there is no way to eliminate the chance that he could pass something on to a patient.  

The fallacy of your testing argument is....I could be tested today at noon, catch Covid from the UPS driver handing me a package at 1pm....but my test results tomorrow would still come back negative.  Too many people think that a negative test result somehow lasts until your next test, which it doesn't.  

Which leads to how often do asymptomatic individuals who opted to get tested and are negative need to be retested if they continue to be asymptomatic?  

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2 hours ago, Walsh Hall said:

How has he specifically justified the "right-wing thugs"?  His words, not the recaps.

Every clip I've seen from Biden and Trump condemns the violence.  Trump won't specifically condemn the violence acts of the "right-wing thugs" and Biden won't condemn the violent acts of BLM and antifa.

 

Trump is justifying these right-wing thugs by explicitly a) validating their reasons for taking action, and b) approving said actions by characterizing them as peaceful and defensive in nature........which is of course utter BS considering these ***holes have been proactively fighting with the Antifa ***holes for months now.   I mean the most recent skirmish (where that guy was shot) happened because 'Patriot Prayer' went right up to Antifa downtown looking to provoke and fight.      

Meanwhile: “I want to make it absolutely clear, so I’m going to be very clear about all of this, rioting is not protesting. Looting is not protesting. Setting fires is not protesting. None of this is protesting. It’s lawlessness, plain and simple. And those who do it should be prosecuted.” - Joe Biden  Aug 31  Pittsburgh PA

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, UNDBIZ said:

So testing is necessary in this case?

Like I said, ... 

6 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

That's the "design the defect out" process; it just happens to be a 'test' in this case. (In the engineering world it's a design review or prototyping.) 

The alternative would be full tracing of where that worker's been since last shift or quarantining the staff inside the elder care facility for weeks on end. Frankly, the quarantining is the only 100% safe option as neither tracing nor testing are fool-proof. 

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1 minute ago, The Sicatoka said:

Like I said, ... 

The alternative would be full tracing of where that worker's been since last shift or quarantining the staff inside the elder care facility for weeks on end. Frankly, the quarantining is the only 100% safe option as neither tracing nor testing are fool-proof. 

.....and from my daily experiences  with these  individuals most have had enough of the isolation and loneliness.  These folks realize their situation age and health wise. They aren't "living" and most know. One individual in a nursing home has left her room to date 4 times since mid March. Good times.......

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BTW.....Did I miss the memo that Jacob Blake was "Father of the Year" and "Community Citizen of the Year" in 2019 in the greater Kenosha area??

#CNNlovefest

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12 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

.....and from my daily experiences  with these  individuals most have had enough of the isolation and loneliness.  These folks realize their situation age and health wise. They aren't "living" and most know. One individual in a nursing home has left her room to date 4 times since mid March. Good times.......

The director of a Fargo-area elder care facility moved into an open space at the start of this --> self-quarantined with the residents. I believe they made it about three weeks before they started going home (real home) at end of shift. 

Even with Bismarck "hot" the facilities there are allowing 30 minute outdoor scheduled visits. They admit the nominal risk is well worth heading off the guaranteed damage continued isolation is doing. 

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1 hour ago, UNDlaw80 said:

 

Trump is justifying these right-wing thugs by explicitly a) validating their reasons for taking action, and b) approving said actions by characterizing them as peaceful and defensive in nature........which is of course utter BS considering these ***holes have been proactively fighting with the Antifa ***holes for months now.   I mean the most recent skirmish (where that guy was shot) happened because 'Patriot Prayer' went right up to Antifa downtown looking to provoke and fight.      

Meanwhile: “I want to make it absolutely clear, so I’m going to be very clear about all of this, rioting is not protesting. Looting is not protesting. Setting fires is not protesting. None of this is protesting. It’s lawlessness, plain and simple. And those who do it should be prosecuted.” - Joe Biden  Aug 31  Pittsburgh PA

 

 

 

i am at a loss on this.  you seem to believe that someone standing up to the left antifa crowd is a bad thing.  How?   if the officials are not going to go in and try to fix the problem, it is up to citizens to do it.  and when the right hits back at the left, they are the bad guy.  just crazy stupid thinking.  you can only push good people so far before they take action.  and if the left, antifa a-holes dont tone it down , the fight will be in their face, and they will not like the outcome. 

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39 minutes ago, 1972 said:

i am at a loss on this.  you seem to believe that someone standing up to the left antifa crowd is a bad thing.  How?   if the officials are not going to go in and try to fix the problem, it is up to citizens to do it.  and when the right hits back at the left, they are the bad guy.  just crazy stupid thinking.  you can only push good people so far before they take action.  and if the left, antifa a-holes dont tone it down , the fight will be in their face, and they will not like the outcome. 

He criticized both sides, where did you?

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1 hour ago, 1972 said:

i am at a loss on this.  you seem to believe that someone standing up to the left antifa crowd is a bad thing.  How?   if the officials are not going to go in and try to fix the problem, it is up to citizens to do it.  and when the right hits back at the left, they are the bad guy.  just crazy stupid thinking.  you can only push good people so far before they take action.  and if the left, antifa a-holes dont tone it down , the fight will be in their face, and they will not like the outcome. 

 

What?  

Unlike the picture Trump is trying to paint, the violence in Portland is localized to a minuscule portion of the city.   99.9% of Portland isn’t being affected by violence, which is why the everyday citizen isn’t doing anything.   

Just like Antifa, these right-wing goons are extremists from the fringe of society.     Heck, I'd be willing to bet a good portion aren't even from Portland.  Basically the situation is radical dirtbags are fighting radical dirtbags.   

 

But whatever, keep on with the  "Good people of Portland are standing up to Antifa!" shtick.  Jesus Christ.:silly:

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16 minutes ago, UNDlaw80 said:

 

What?  

Unlike the picture Trump is trying to paint, the violence in Portland is localized to a minuscule portion of the city.   99.9% of Portland isn’t being affected by violence, which is why the everyday citizen isn’t doing anything.   

Just like Antifa, these right-wing goons are extremists from the fringe of society.     Heck, I'd be willing to bet a good portion aren't even from Portland.  Basically the situation is radical dirtbags are fighting radical dirtbags.   

 

But whatever, keep on with the "good people of Portland are standing up to Antifa!" shtick.  Jesus Christ.:silly:

I truly am curious if you got a law degree from und, or anywhere.  If you did, please go back and get a refund, because you clearly cannot comprehend basic English, or basic law, for that matter.

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22 minutes ago, 1972 said:

I truly am curious if you got a law degree from und, or anywhere.  If you did, please go back and get a refund, because you clearly cannot comprehend basic English, or basic law, for that matter.

Please walk us through examples of his issues with comprehension and basic law.

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3 hours ago, 1972 said:

I truly am curious if you got a law degree from und, or anywhere.  If you did, please go back and get a refund, because you clearly cannot comprehend basic English, or basic law, for that matter.

 

And I truly am curious if you washed those mustard stains off your wife-beater yet.  I mean I can imagine how difficult it is to fit a washing machine in a mobile home.     

I tells ya, ad hominem debates sure are fun!!!  Yesiree!. :silly: 

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2 hours ago, Oxbow6 said:

.....and from my daily experiences  with these  individuals most have had enough of the isolation and loneliness.  These folks realize their situation age and health wise. They aren't "living" and most know. One individual in a nursing home has left her room to date 4 times since mid March. Good times.......

You bring up a good point @Oxbow6 do we live in fear lock the country down shut everything down or do we go on with our lives and do the right things? Protect vulnerable and wear a mask in stores. Some of the other residual problems are going to be worse than the virus itself. For instance IPV is up during the Pandemic. 

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