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2020 Dumpster Fire (Enter at your own risk)

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1 hour ago, yzerman19 said:

I’m just writing away this morning...

Here are some other things that have really degraded opportunity in the USA that have nothing to do with social justice:

1.  Corporations outsourcing jobs overseas to save a buck.  Inflated earnings, but at the expense of product quality (pharma great example) and US jobs.

2.  The elimination of defined benefit pensions.  Again, really improved the balance sheets of Corporations, but at the cost of security.  Do not confuse this with the underfunded pensions in the public sector.  Those would be fine too if they were properly managed.

3.  Corporate tax law.  If you look at the effective rates actually paid, well, let’s just say we all wish we paid so little.

4.  Housing.  I’ve said it a million times.  All people want is a job, a family, and a home they own.  When a house in CA costs $700k as a starting point, there is no hope for the masses.  
 

im losing steam...too much posting for a Sunday morning.

Reagan was a disaster for this country.

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4 minutes ago, wxman91 said:

Reagan was a disaster for this country.

Victory in the Cold War and curbing inflation on one hand.

Economic devastation to the working class, manufacturing, mining, farming on the other.

I blame the Fed for almost all our economic woes.

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36 minutes ago, TheFlop said:

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

Police have killed 598 people in 2020.

No, those officers should not have been killed.

But...  the frustration level in our country is at an all time high.  I can understand why it happened.  Doesn't mean I condone it. 

That concept may be too much for you to understand.  

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7 minutes ago, homer said:

I thought we were supposed to trust the experts.  

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/nancy-pelosi-deborah-birx-142917445.html

Well, she has good reason.  Our COVID 19 rate is rising, by a lot.  It's not going down.  Yet, this:

"Pelosi’s private criticism followed a New York Times report that Birx had been telling Trump in recent months that the coronavirus threat in the U.S. was fading. Democrats have condemned Trump for repeatedly downplaying the threat of the virus and not taking swift, forceful action to contain it."

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2 hours ago, Kab said:

And if a democrat was president the same things would be happening, economy would be worse and they would blame it on a video in China 

 

As it pertains to Covid?  Yea I agree.  Trump royally ****-ed up but I'm not confident the Democrats have the competency to do any better.   

As it pertains to race riots/violence?   Trump is part of the problem.  You know his game-plan is to fan the flames when he threatened to send the Feds into cities where there was little or no violence, nor federal buildings being harmed. 

But that's this Administration's shtick, it's predicated entirely on dividing this country.   I mean we're in historical times and, unlike any other President, not once has Trump articulated an all-encompassing collective unifying message to the nation.  He gets in front of a mic and spews personal grievances.  I suppose this appeals to some people.  Whatever.          

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53 minutes ago, wxman91 said:

Reagan was a disaster for this country.

 

Speaking of Reagan, he'd be considered a leftist 'never Trumper' in today's political climate.    

Reagan Foundation recently went as far as to tell the RNC to stop using his likeness next to Trump. 

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15 minutes ago, Hayduke1 said:

Well, she has good reason.  Our COVID 19 rate is rising, by a lot.  It's not going down.  Yet, this:

"Pelosi’s private criticism followed a New York Times report that Birx had been telling Trump in recent months that the coronavirus threat in the U.S. was fading. Democrats have condemned Trump for repeatedly downplaying the threat of the virus and not taking swift, forceful action to contain it."

So she is judging, and you are agreeing that it’s warranted based on her opinion of the virus a few months ago. Maybe she changed her opinion after becoming more familiar with the virus.  The D’s dint grant her the same leniency as Fauci gets for changing his stance on masks??

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6 minutes ago, homer said:

So she is judging, and you are agreeing that it’s warranted based on her opinion of the virus a few months ago. Maybe she changed her opinion after becoming more familiar with the virus.  The D’s dint grant her the same leniency as Fauci gets for changing his stance on masks??

"Maybe" she changed her opinion.  Maybe.  If that is the case, my guess is that she hasn"t changed her narrative with Trump. 

Fauci's stance has probably changed based on data.  I havent bothered looking it up.  If it changed,  can't fault him for that. A false narrative on Fauci wont change people's trust in his credibility.  Trump can't figure that out, among countless other things. 

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8 minutes ago, Hayduke1 said:

"Maybe" she changed her opinion.  Maybe.  If that is the case, my guess is that she hasn"t changed her narrative with Trump. 

Fauci's stance has probably changed based on data.  I havent bothered looking it up.  If it changed,  can't fault him for that. A false narrative on Fauci wont change people's trust in his credibility.  Trump can't figure that out, among countless other things. 

You haven’t bothered looking up Fauci’s history in masks? Come on.  

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3 hours ago, yzerman19 said:

The internet and social media with its dulling of humanity is the biggest threat we face.  More so than an antifa protest.  Cancel culture and the willingness to “kill” a person online like you would kill a bot in a video game.  It’s so de-sensitized.  I’m waiting for a major lawsuit against a platform like Facebook for damages due to inciting a virtual mob.
 

The country is very much split, like 51/49.  It is incredibly important that the barely minority’s rights are protected, no matter what side they are on.  The framers were very concerned about this and built the government to prefer gridlock over trampling without a super majority.  
 

Using Executive orders, eliminating the filibuster, expanding the Supreme Court, eliminating the electoral college, adding senators...these things all are abuses (no matter what side) and are contrary to the goals of the framers.  
 

 

The biggest unintended consequences of the internet is it allows people the opportunity to marinate themselves in a political echo-chamber that just validates their pre-existing biases. 

Unlike in years past where people obtained info/news from the same sources, we no longer have a common starting point for disagreement.       

  

  

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12 minutes ago, homer said:

You haven’t bothered looking up Fauci’s history in masks? Come on.  

I concern myself on what he is saying now.  Science and statistics can be fluid.  It is obvious by the data and science we have now that facemasks, social distancing, cleaning of surfaces and washing hands are helping reduce the spread of Covid 19.  Now, we need a vaccine or preventative.  All we can do until then is try to slow it down. 

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39 minutes ago, UNDlaw80 said:

 

As it pertains to Covid?  Yea I agree.  Trump royally ****-ed up but I'm not confident the Democrats have the competency to do any better.   

As it pertains to race riots/violence?   Trump is part of the problem.  You know his game-plan is to fan the flames when he threatened to send the Feds into cities where there was little or no violence, nor federal buildings being harmed. 

But that's this Administration's shtick, it's predicated entirely on dividing this country.   I mean we're in historical times and, unlike any other President, not once has Trump articulated an all-encompassing collective unifying message to the nation.  He gets in front of a mic and spews personal grievances.  I suppose this appeals to some people.  Whatever.          

I will agree with you on being un-remorsefully divisive.  While it can be argued that W and Obama were also divisive, that was a result of policy rather than rhetoric.  
 

Trump might be the first President to ever take the rhetorical position of constituents over country.  Certainly policy has always favored constituents in political history, but the surrounding rhetoric was at least attempting to (if not unite) at least explain and attempt to convince.

 

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Among McCain and Lewis’ collective eulogies as well as messages and appearances by Clinton, W, and Obama, I Have found myself nostalgic for a leader that at least on the surface appears to respect the office and speaks to and for all Americans.  
 

The thing is, I do favor many policy moves by Trump, but the why and how the message is delivered masks it over.

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1 hour ago, Hayduke1 said:

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

Police have killed 598 people in 2020.

No, those officers should not have been killed.

But...  the frustration level in our country is at an all time high.  I can understand why it happened.  Doesn't mean I condone it. 

That concept may be too much for you to understand.  

How many police stops? Last year there was something like 200-300 million police stops. Only 1000 people lost their lives at the hands of police. 300 were black.  Whats the %.  Infinitesamal.

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The immigration thing drives me bananas for example.  There is an incredibly compelling argument to:

1. Establish strong border security and control immigration.

2.  Devise a path to citizenship via public or military service for those here legally or illegally at a set point in time.

3.  Deport criminals and those unwilling to follow the path to citizenship.

4.  Effectively manage work and school visas also tied to paths to citizenship or deportation depending on choices.

 

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1 hour ago, Hayduke1 said:

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

Police have killed 598 people in 2020.

No, those officers should not have been killed.

But...  the frustration level in our country is at an all time high.  I can understand why it happened.  Doesn't mean I condone it. 

That concept may be too much for you to understand.  

You are the one continually throwing out a claim and then dodging it when questioned.  You stated that left wing extremists groups had not killed anyone in recent history.  I threw out an example that instantly discredited your assertion.  

As to the number of people killed by police in 2020......that's a raw number.  You do realize that there are bad people in this world that sometimes give police no other option but to harm them?  Hiding behind a raw number like that is a lazy way of trying to make your point.  Research those cases and get back to us with how many of those deaths weren't justified.  Are there some?  Absolutely.  Are they a rather small amount?  Yep, and you know it.  

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3 minutes ago, yzerman19 said:

Among McCain and Lewis’ collective eulogies as well as messages and appearances by Clinton, W, and Obama, I Have found myself nostalgic for a leader that at least on the surface appears to respect the office and speaks to and for all Americans.  
 

The thing is, I do favor many policy moves by Trump, but the why and how the message is delivered masks it over.

 

It certainly puts many traditional conservatives in a predicament come November.   Temporarily acquiesce to democratic policy in order to install some normalcy in the White House, or keep Trump in office and hope the country doesn't burn to the ground.  As we're seeing, many are jumping off the Trump train already.  McConnell has reportedly told governors to ditch Trump if it helps re-election chances.  How it all plays out, who knows.      

Either way, it should be interesting where the party goes post-Trump.     

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2 minutes ago, UNDlaw80 said:

 

It certainly puts many traditional conservatives in a predicament come November.   Temporarily acquiesce to democratic policy in order to install some normalcy in the White House, or keep Trump in office and hope the country doesn't burn to the ground.  As we're seeing, many are jumping off the Trump train already.  McConnell has reportedly told governors to ditch Trump if it helps re-election chances.  How it all plays out, who knows.      

Either way, it should be interesting where the party goes post-Trump.     

Why I really wanted Biden to go for the middle.

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1 hour ago, yzerman19 said:

The immigration thing drives me bananas for example.  There is an incredibly compelling argument to:

1. Establish strong border security and control immigration.

2.  Devise a path to citizenship via public or military service for those here legally or illegally at a set point in time.

3.  Deport criminals and those unwilling to follow the path to citizenship.

4.  Effectively manage work and school visas also tied to paths to citizenship or deportation depending on choices.

 

 

I've done immigration law.    Politicians talk a big 'we need to control our borders' game, but it's a scam.  All of it.  Both parties involved.  

Illegals drive the agriculture, dairy and canning industries.  Eliminate this cheap workforce and we're screwed.  Government agencies turn a blind eye to all of it.....human trafficking, H2A regulations never adhered to, fake social security cards, etc. etc.  It's a song and dance show.   

If we really wanted to quell illegal immigration, the answer is simple.  Crack down mercilessly on companies hiring illegals; make the risk not worth their while.  With no employment options available, it would cut illegal immigration by at least 90%, and for a fraction of the cost of building a wall.   But for obvious reasons this will never occur.         

 

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1 hour ago, Hayduke1 said:

I concern myself on what he is saying now.  Science and statistics can be fluid.  It is obvious by the data and science we have now that facemasks, social distancing, cleaning of surfaces and washing hands are helping reduce the spread of Covid 19.  Now, we need a vaccine or preventative.  All we can do until then is try to slow it down. 

Saying now? Versus 3 or 4 months ago? How's the "science" of transmission changed from day 1 for Covid19? How's the science of transmission for TB changed in decades? Influenza? Basically identical in transmission for all three. 1.5M die annually worldwide from TB. 10M infected.  Again I'm not anti mask but are mask only valuable in preventing  transmission of Covid19? Why not recommended for TB or influenza over the years? Do we count TB cases? Flu cases? Are we going to quarantine all those who have a postive influenza test starting this late fall?  Closes businesses? Schools?

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1 hour ago, yzerman19 said:

The immigration thing drives me bananas for example.  There is an incredibly compelling argument to:

1. Establish strong border security and control immigration.

2.  Devise a path to citizenship via public or military service for those here legally or illegally at a set point in time.

3.  Deport criminals and those unwilling to follow the path to citizenship.

4.  Effectively manage work and school visas also tied to paths to citizenship or deportation depending on choices.

 

Goodness.

 

I agree with you.

I have to wash my hands now.

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"Trust the experts".........

Seems Pelosi not buying it. Said she has "no confidence" in Dr. Birx and also said Birx was "the worst". Pelosi has hailed Fauci a "hero".

 

Again Pelosi is the one that said the "greatest risk" to the spread of Covid moving forward is sending kids back to school.

If only Dr. Birx could throw a pitch more than 6' off the plate.......

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1 hour ago, UNDlaw80 said:

 

I've done immigration law.    Politicians talk a big 'we need to control our borders' game, but it's a scam.  All of it.  Both parties involved.  

Illegals drive the agriculture, dairy and canning industries.  Eliminate this cheap workforce and we're screwed.  Government agencies turn a blind eye to all of it.....human trafficking, H2A regulations never adhered to, fake social security cards, etc. etc.  It's a song and dance show.   

If we really wanted to quell illegal immigration, the answer is simple.  Crack down mercilessly on companies hiring illegals; make the risk not worth their while.  With no employment options available, it would cut illegal immigration by at least 90%, and for a fraction of the cost of building a wall.   But for obvious reasons this will never occur.         

 

Brother I’m in CA...half the economy is fully dependent on undocumented workers. 

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