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2020 Dumpster Fire (Enter at your own risk)

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2 minutes ago, Redneksioux said:

If I were to take a guess, yes. I know most long term care facilities in GF are testing at least weekly. Higher risk units up to twice/week right now.

So given that, do you understand why people are frustrated with representatives and the media touting increased cases as a problem and a reason to keep restrictions in place?

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1 hour ago, TheFlop said:

It's the one place where mask wearing has been 100% compliant, or at least closest to it.  

Shouldn't have been any deaths or at least a very low number of masks work.  

Obviously masks alone aren't the answer.

 

You realize there are some long term care facilities that are doing very well right? The one I know of doing exceptionally well has implemented PPE guidelines(including masks obviously), social distancing, limiting visitors, weekly testing, and the employees are taking an oath to be responsible. I don't think it would be possible to be an anti-masker and take this oath honestly.

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3 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

So given that, do you understand why people are frustrated with representatives and the media touting increased cases as a problem and a reason to keep restrictions in place?

"We need to shut down for a bit. Start testing!" (understandable)

"We need to do more tests!" (understandable)

< US begins testing at higher and higher numbers >  "WE HAVE SO MANY POSITIVE TESTS! WE NEED TO SHUT EVERYTHING DOWN AGAIN." (unreasonable logic)

 

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47 minutes ago, homer said:

Nope, I’m keeping up.  Just wanted to be sure that you are perfectly fine with a leader changing their opinion on mask effectiveness from early on until now.  

Now that we have established that.  You should also be good with a person being perfectly fine to go to school, a restaurant or vote in person if they wear a mask.  No reason to lock things down further since “the experts” say masks are the answer.  

Ah, "masks are the answer" seems to be the theme of those against masks.  With nothing else in mind. 

Hmmm..

Have you thought that just maybe social distancing, washing hands, and even other measures help?

And of course there are no guarantees.  These actions only decrease the odds of catching and transmitting Covid-19. 

Decreasing the chances...not a 100% solution...  that must totally blow the Trumptards minds. 

Lol

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1 minute ago, Redneksioux said:

If I were to take a guess, yes. I know most long term care facilities in GF are testing at least weekly. Higher risk units up to twice/week right now.

Do question to some extent the validity of "unique" daily positives though. Know someone who registered for the testing....too long of a wait so left without getting tested.......yet got notified test was postive.

 

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7 minutes ago, Hayduke1 said:

Ah, "masks are the answer" seems to be the theme of those against masks.  With nothing else in mind. 

Hmmm..

Have you thought that just maybe social distancing, washing hands, and even other measures help?

And of course there are no guarantees.  These actions only decrease the odds of catching and transmitting Covid-19. 

Decreasing the chances...not a 100% solution...  that must totally blow the Trumptards minds. 

Lol

Everything I mentioned can also include social distancing.  School, eating at a restaurant and voting (Id also add presidential debates) can be done keeping 6 feet apart while wearing a mask  (except when eating)

If they all work, open the things that can be done combining all of them.  

 

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9 minutes ago, Hayduke1 said:

Ah, "masks are the answer" seems to be the theme of those against masks.  With nothing else in mind. 

Hmmm..

Have you thought that just maybe social distancing, washing hands, and even other measures help?

And of course there are no guarantees.  These actions only decrease the odds of catching and transmitting Covid-19. 

Decreasing the chances...not a 100% solution...  that must totally blow the Trumptards minds. 

Lol

You say decreases risk, fine, I agree.

The question is by how much?

If it’s a significant percentage than most people will take action. Good ideas with provable value tend to take hold organically.

However, regardless of the percentage the totality of the picture needs to be assessed when you’re a mature and serious person. What is being given up to achieve this lowered risk? In the case of masks, my risk/benefit analysis point toward wearing one, but individuals have varied risk tolerances which is why I’m for individuals being able to keep that choice.

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14 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

So given that, do you understand why people are frustrated with representatives and the media touting increased cases as a problem and a reason to keep restrictions in place?

I don't buy into the idea that increased testing is the sole reason for increased positives. Is it a factor, sure. But to claim increased testing is the sole reason for higher infection counts is ridiculous.

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2 minutes ago, homer said:

Everything I mentioned can also include social distancing.  School, eating at a restaurant and voting (Id also add presidential debates) can be done keeping 6 feet apart while wearing a mask  (except when eating)

If they all work, open the things that can be done combining all of them.  

 

I actually agree.  Provided the expectation is you follow the rules or you are asked to leave.  

The biggest problem is the "voluntary " compliance.  We may disagree on that.  Screw voluntary, make it mandatory with actual consequences. 

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10 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

Do question to some extent the validity of "unique" daily positives though. Know someone who registered for the testing....too long of a wait so left without getting tested.......yet got notified test was postive.

 

Now that is concerning.

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2 minutes ago, Hayduke1 said:

I actually agree.  Provided the expectation is you follow the rules or you are asked to leave.  

The biggest problem is the "voluntary " compliance.  We may disagree on that.  Screw voluntary, make it mandatory with actual consequences. 

So if Minnesota announces today that masks are mandatory, than we agree there should be no problem opening schools with a normal 5 day schedule. 

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2 minutes ago, homer said:

So if Minnesota announces today that masks are mandatory, than we agree there should be no problem opening schools with a normal 5 day schedule. 

#proventowork

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22 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

Do question to some extent the validity of "unique" daily positives though. Know someone who registered for the testing....too long of a wait so left without getting tested.......yet got notified test was postive.

Do you actually know this person or are you talking about the article that has been floating around on Facebook about the person from Florida. Because it sure sounds eerily similar.
https://fox6now.com/2020/07/21/florida-to-investigate-alleged-covid-test-result-mix-ups/

For those who didn't read/see it:
What actually happened was the indivdiual registered, was assigned a slot and then got out of line due to the wait. Her doing that put the number assigned to each sample/slot off by one. So the test that she was supposed to take went to the person behind her, who tested positive. Due to the paperwork issue, she got the call for a positive test as that is who it was originally assigned to.

Obviously a very concerning error as there were people getting the wrong information, but it wasn't due to some mass conspiracy or people trying to pad the numbers, it was due to paperwork error from a mass testing event, which are completely different issues to address. The governor has already made comments that it is being looked into and protocols need to be adjusted so people get the correct info.

 

  

13 minutes ago, Redneksioux said:

I don't buy into the idea that increased testing is the sole reason for increased positives. Is it a factor, sure. But to claim increased testing is the sole reason for higher infection counts is ridiculous.

The increase in positive tests continues to grow faster than the increase in testing. So either there were a lot more people that had it before and weren't getting tested or there are a lot more people who have it now. Most likely, it is probably both.

The bigger issue is the 5-8 day backlog in testing. Unacceptable and makes containing things even more difficult.

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1 minute ago, homer said:

So if Minnesota announces today that masks are mandatory, than we agree there should be no problem opening schools with a normal 5 day schedule. 

The problem there is really two fold.

1.  Classrooms, lunchrooms, extra curricular activities as designed aren't conducive to social distancing.

2.  Good luck trying to get kids, especially grade school kids, to wear masks and follow the rules.  Can't even get adults to do that in many cases.  

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5 hours ago, TheFlop said:

More evidence that there is strong likelihood that it is aerosol which would make wearing cloth masks the equivalent of trying to keep mosquitos away from you by wearing a fishing net on your head. 

https://news.yahoo.com/scientists-report-airborne-coronavirus-probably-infectious-090340015.html

That’s what you took away from this?

It says the virus can exist on droplets under 5 microns.
 

Masks, cloth or N95s reduce incremental exposure. For most people the less you breathe in, the less sick you get. 
 

If one interpreted this as ‘cloth masks are useless’ then you would also interpret it as N95s are useless. 
 

Not trying to change your mind Because I won’t, but it needed pointed out. 

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4 minutes ago, Redneksioux said:

I don't buy into the idea that increased testing is the sole reason for increased positives. Is it a factor, sure. But to claim increased testing is the sole reason for higher infection counts is ridiculous.

Even if it isn’t the sole reason, what percentage of inflation are you ok with making significant decisions off of?

We are making massively impactful decisions off of this data and they have basically admitted the data is inflated. 

How is that ok?

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11 minutes ago, Hayduke1 said:

The problem there is really two fold.

1.  Classrooms, lunchrooms, extra curricular activities as designed aren't conducive to social distancing.

2.  Good luck trying to get kids, especially grade school kids, to wear masks and follow the rules.  Can't even get adults to do that in many cases.  

If the governor makes them mandatory, kids can be punished/sent home.  No different than other school rules.  

I already said extra curricular activities weren’t included.  We are just talking learning.  Utilize outdoor spaces and gymnasiums for classrooms.  

All the solutions together work right.  That’s what you have been saying the last how many pages.  

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13 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

The bigger issue is the 5-8 day backlog in testing. Unacceptable and makes containing things even more difficult.

ND has been notifying positive test individuals in 24-48 hours.  When did the backlog start?

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2 minutes ago, homer said:

If the governor makes them mandatory, kids can be punished/sent home.  No different than other school rules.  

I already said extra curricular activities weren’t included.  We are just talking learning.  Utilize outdoor spaces and gymnasiums for classrooms.  

All the solutions together work right.  That’s what you have been saying the last how many pages.  

They’ll keep moving the goalposts on safety until the schools are forced closed. It’s been obvious from the get go that Walz didn’t want to open the schools, regardless of what he says in his press conferences.

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3 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

ND has been notifying positive test individuals in 24-48 hours.  When did the backlog start?

It was a reference to where things are nationwide, particularly the current hotspots.
48-72 hours is what I've seen/heard from those tested recently in ND, with some being quicker. 

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1 minute ago, Bison06 said:

Even if it isn’t the sole reason, what percentage of inflation are you ok with making significant decisions off of?

We are making massively impactful decisions off of this data and they have basically admitted the data is inflated. 

How is that ok?

Too many variables at this point. Lack of kits, slowdown at some labs, most exposed don’t get tested at all because they already know the answer, or asymptomatic people who feel fine get tested anyway etc. 

It’s an algebraic equation with so many variables they are forced to go off large numbers. Every input is debatable. It’s clearly not perfect. Decision makers watch rate of transmission and hospitalizations in zones.
 

https://rt.live 

 

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7 minutes ago, CarpeRemote said:

Too many variables at this point. Lack of kits, slowdown at some labs, most exposed don’t get tested at all because they already know the answer, or asymptomatic people who feel fine get tested anyway etc. 

It’s an algebraic equation with so many variables they are forced to go off large numbers. Every input is debatable. It’s clearly not perfect. Decision makers watch rate of transmission and hospitalizations in zones.
 

https://rt.live 

 

Agreed.

But if the data that being used for the projections is flawed, wouldn’t the decisions being made also be flawed? We are being asked to trust the science, when the science is corrupted, possibly to the point of being irrelevant. I realize they have to go off of something, but wrong is wrong.

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40 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Even if it isn’t the sole reason, what percentage of inflation are you ok with making significant decisions off of?

We are making massively impactful decisions off of this data and they have basically admitted the data is inflated. 

How is that ok?

How exactly is increasing testing inflating the data?

 

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How about:

1.  If you are sick with symptoms stay home for 14 days.  

2.  If you are exposed to someone who is sick, wait 5 days in self quarantine then get a test. If sick stay home for 14 days.

3.  If you are vulnerable, stay home.

4.  If you are healthy and not vulnerable, then a.  If with strangers, crowds, unknowns, then wear a mask, wash your hands, and social distance as much as possible, be outside rather than inside if possible.  b.  If with people you know and trust and believe to be healthy,  live normal.

 

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2 hours ago, homer said:

Nope, I’m keeping up.  Just wanted to be sure that you are perfectly fine with a leader changing their opinion on mask effectiveness from early on until now.  

Now that we have established that.  You should also be good with a person being perfectly fine to go to school, a restaurant or vote in person if they wear a mask.  No reason to lock things down further since “the experts” say masks are the answer.  

Are these the same "experts" that picked the arbitrary 6 feet social distancing rule?

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