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2020 Dumpster Fire (Enter at your own risk)

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58 minutes ago, yzerman19 said:

Which is the greater sin?  That we failed to delay 80,000 deaths or that we destroyed the US economy for a generation?  I know where I sit on that...

787000+ total individuals in this country died between February 1 thru May 2 from a laundry list of reasons. 

700K+ have died above and beyond COVID in 3 months. 

This country never recognized the other 700K deaths during the same time frame nor has it ever made a big deal of the roughly 3/4M individuals that die every 3 months in this country. 

You're spot on that we were fooled into thinking protecting the elderly and vulnerable was paramount and a single line item on the balance sheet at the expense of sacrificing the stability of society as we know it and the future of your kids and mine.

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9 minutes ago, UNDlaw80 said:

So true.  The internet has broken us.    

It gives people an easy avenue to seek out news that only validates their confirmation biases.  As a result we;re more apt to live in cocoon of 1-sided perspectives.  

Unlike in years past (say, when everybody obtained their news from Walter Cronkite) we have no common ground as a stating point for disagreement.  People’s worldviews are miles apart.  

I will add that it is also prevalent in the entertainment people watch and listen to.  Johnny Carson was an equal opportunity mocker.  You don’t see that these days.  When you get a whole bunch of celebrities together with a campaign that “we really need to support this president” it only shows that it is all based on political viewpoint, not country.  

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2 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Why are we blaming the firefighters?

Blame the arsonists. (Yeah, I’m looking at you and your policies Beijing.) 

German magazine Der Spiegel is reporting the China government conspired with WHO to delay reporting the problem by four to six weeks.

https://dailycaller.com/2020/05/09/china-who-coronavirus-coverup-germany/ 

“The BND’s verdict is harsh: At least four, if not six, weeks have been lost in Beijing’s information policy in the fight against the virus,” Der Spiegel reported. 

 

(BND is German intelligence.) 

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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-coronavirus-real-death-toll-covid-29-cases-a9504911.html

So assuming these numbers are even close to accurate, show me a Covid-19 death and I'll show you someone with heart disease or some similar condition  that was too afraid of the media created hysteria to seek treatment........but don't forget the added bonus of a crashed economy.

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3 minutes ago, TheFlop said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-coronavirus-real-death-toll-covid-29-cases-a9504911.html

So assuming these numbers are even close to accurate, show me a Covid-19 death and I'll show you someone with heart disease or some similar condition  that was too afraid of the media created hysteria to seek treatment........but don't forget the added bonus of a crashed economy.

Yeah...but this is the Brits too...jolly good fun, eh?

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23 minutes ago, yzerman19 said:

Yeah...but this is the Brits too...jolly good fun, eh?

Unfortunately I find some of the Brits coverage of the US more objective than much of what is found in the US.

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I’m hearing about summer camps requiring masks...really?  It’s all over...I had my son drink water out of a fast moving clear stream in the mountains to help him learn not to be afraid...he coulda gotten giardia- not likely from where we were.  Natives drank that water for a thousand years.  Some nanny stater would probably want me arrested.  Nobody can die, nobody can get sick, nobody can get hurt, nobody can lose, nobody can feel badly or be offended. Guess what?  all those things are part of the human experience.  Just wait...pretty soon it will be about money.  Nobody can fail...we’re the richest country in earth...next thing you know...universal income and socialism.  Working your ass off, acquiring debt, getting educated in a valuable skill so you can make a few hundred grand a year which once was the American dream will be vilified and it won’t just be the ultra wealthy that pay the price...it will be doctors, lawyers, executives, small business owners...people making $250-$500k that get crucified.

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Just now, TheFlop said:

Unfortunately I find some of the Brits coverage of the US more objective than much of what is found in the US.

Funny you say that.  Only news I watch is BBC 

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I’m ready to accept the consequences of war with China.  You know what this pandemic has shown them? That the USA will cower in fear of losing 80,000 people. 

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"There is nothing from the CDC that I can trust".....Dr. Birx quoted in a recent Washington Post article. Same article states Birx fears CDC mortality rate and case counts were inflated by up to 25%.

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Look for Birx to be immediately attacked by the blue checkmark loser brigade.  

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Looks like if you live in Minnesota and dont live in a nursing home your chances of dying are extremely low.

80% of MN corona deaths are people living in nursing homes.

Which seems to continue the trend regionally and a big part of the nation.

 

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1 hour ago, Oxbow6 said:

"There is nothing from the CDC that I can trust".....Dr. Birx quoted in a recent Washington Post article. Same article states Birx fears CDC mortality rate and case counts were inflated by up to 25%.

So we can't trust the WHO and we can't trust the CDC. The NIH was funding the Wuhan lab so we can't even trust them. What health organizations can we trust?

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11 minutes ago, Redneksioux said:

So we can't trust the WHO and we can't trust the CDC. The NIH was funding the Wuhan lab so we can't even trust them. What health organizations can we trust?

Starting to catch on.  

They all provide information and use their resources to guide countries through this process.  But it is quite obvious they dont exactly know what they're dealing with, much like everyone else. 

People who blindly follow the CDC are forgetting they are a government agency - does anybody blindly trust our government for other things?  A piece of the puzzle.

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8 hours ago, TheFlop said:

Unfortunately I find some of the Brits coverage of the US more objective than much of what is found in the US.

It's been that way for over a decade. 

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8 hours ago, yzerman19 said:

I’m ready to accept the consequences of war with China.  You know what this pandemic has shown them? That the USA will cower in fear of losing 80,000 people. 

No.
When I say make them pay I mean make them pay.

China holds about $1.3 trillion (with a T) of US sovereign debt.

I say void all that paper: Void all US debt held by China.  

Tell them they can use it for toilet paper, because that's all it's worth now. 

 

If they don't like it, well, they've already de facto started an economic war. If China wants to go next level, let them start that also. We'll finish that too. (Let the first Trident D-5 "party favor" land on Wuhan.) 

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1 hour ago, The Sicatoka said:

Tell them they can use it for toilet paper, because that's all it's worth now. 

I’m not sure where you’re from, but where I live, toilet paper is worth quite a bit these days!

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On 5/10/2020 at 5:33 PM, UNDlaw80 said:

Like any competent country does, sheltering-in-place is augmented with mass testing, followed by quarantining those infected, followed by mass tracing, followed by mass anti-body testing. The point is to stay ahead of the Covid spread, after which you can formulate a step by step process to open based on readily available info and criteria being met.  Unfortunately we don't even have mass testing available to citizens.

Is this process intrusive?  Without a doubt.  Rightly or wrongly, this is the plan we chose by initiating the lock-down.  But we half-a$$ed it.  

 If you’re gonna do something, you go ‘all-in’.  We didn’t.  And here we are stuck in neutral.  

I understand your position but but hindsight is easy. All-in in January and  much of February couldn’t have happened under any democratic government.  

In December and January we weren’t aware the CCP had discontinued flights from Wuhan to Shanghai and Beijing but yet allowed 10,000’s of of superspreaders to seed the USA and Europe. We didn’t know China went from a net exporter of PPE to importing at least 2 Billion of PPE late Nov through Feb. 
 

I’m not happy with the situation; my rear view glasses say the admin could have asked for a lockdown a tiny bit sooner but I’m not sure if that was truly possible without the WHO and Fauci. What I would have done differently was order a 100% nationwide lockdown for 30 days the day the WHO and CDC finally got off-center. But there were immediate constitutional arguments (and still are) 

 I think Trump made flight-ban calls as early as made medical and economic sense. He was a maybe a little late on Europe, but NY was already seeded. It would have been nearly impossible politically to lock down business in January or February from a political, medical, or economic standpoint based on available information. Politically the pushback from both parties, unlikely bedfellows like corporate America, coffee shop owners, and plaintiff attorneys, would have made it impossible without better cover from the WHO and CDC.
 

To the administration’s credit, in January with limited information they worked with Gilead and Regeneron from a regulatory standpoint fast-tracking drugs. They asked Honeywell to begin outfitting  two medical mask factories, and Trump stopped Chinese flights. Based on what we know now, one week wouldn’t have mattered.   
 

Information is key to real time decisions and we lacked the info to ask for a Manhattan project for test kits in November and December. Our biotech industry is the best because there is profit involved. And there was no incentive in creating tests at that time so a Manhattan project was the only answer but the administration couldn’t have possibly pulled 10 Billion (or any dollar amount) out of the house or senate to fund a project with the private sector, or even for research hospitals. Dems would have pushed back for for political gain and Republicans would have refused for political and economic reasons. It’s the price we pay for being a Democratic Republic. Trump is not a king and I think he acted mostly appropriately in a complicated situation.  
 

It’s May and despite focused efforts, just now has the world's best Pharma industry and research hospitals been able to produce a likely game changer, an antigen test that can be read with Sofia machines already in place in primary care offices. Two weeks lead-time wouldn’t have changed things.
 

The Sofia machine antibody test wasn’t as simple as ordering it done. It’s a $5 test and takes 5 minutes. it’s 85% accurate but it’s good enough to change how we test employees so they can work. It still needs to be done in an office but I assume their will be assembly line style testing (test an entire restaurant chain or manufacturer shift)  at some point. That won’t happen overnight but now we have the tool. 

The most reliable test was in place pretty early but it’s expensive, takes a day or two to get results, and can’t be read in an office. It still can’t be mass produced or read in high volumes. It’s the best we still have and there was no way to make it available en mass even with another 3-4 weeks lead time.  
 

From someone who has been for an air-tight lockdown (early on) and for people to voluntarily wear masks now, (so we can protect people a little more and to get us all back to work), I’m not placing political blame on anyone except maybe de Blasio who’s hubris cost us dearly, but Imo nitpicking now is wasted energy. 
(typed this quickly on a phone so please overlook bad grammar and structure)

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1 hour ago, SWSiouxMN said:

I understand that for all the vendors, etc. it's preferable to not cancel the event the week before the gates open, but this is absolutely crazy.  An outdoor event... in July... in ND.  I wouldn't have been in attendance, but with more and more events being cancelled that give us something to look forward to, and give us hope,  the bleaker this is feeling.  I couldn't care less about the State Fair, but that was a punch in the gut for some reason.

If all public events are still cancelled through the time that snow flies in late 2020 us Northern folks are going to be going crazy.

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2 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

No.
When I say make them pay I mean make them pay.

China holds about $1.3 trillion (with a T) of US sovereign debt.

I say void all that paper: Void all US debt held by China.  

Tell them they can use it for toilet paper, because that's all it's worth now. 

 

If they don't like it, well, they've already de facto started an economic war. If China wants to go next level, let them start that also. We'll finish that too. (Let the first Trident D-5 "party favor" land on Wuhan.) 

So a default on our national debt- that would be a complete economic disaster that would make the last 8 weeks seem like a walk in the park.   What is it with conservatism/ libertarianism and the inability to think anything through? 

Here's what gets us out of this..... Trump loses badly in November and much like Bush before him hands the keys to a house on fire to Biden and a Democratic majority Senate.  Democrats then take on the hard work of cleaning up the mess the Republican Party and Trump left for them, while the same Republicans take whatever actions possible to make economic recovery/ containment of the virus as difficult as possible.   Despite this, the virus is eventually contained and the economy turns around.   After which, the debt and deficit will be addressed and some folks taxes will have to go up, which will be a small sacrifice in comparison to the workers you're asking to die of coronavirus for the sake of our economy and "patriotism".

At some point, the economy will start doing so well that people will forget what a mess Republican governance looks like and elect another Republican president and Senate and we'll start the whole process over again.   Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

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