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2020 Dumpster Fire (Enter at your own risk)

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If only there was a way to measure the aerosol filtration efficiency of different materials.
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252

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Surely there have't been any rigorous peer review studies with an airborne disease or flu strain such as H1N1 with specifically N95 masks? 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23571366

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There is definitely no way we could know if masks were somehow implemented that it would reduce the impact of covid.
https://arxiv.org/pdf/2004.13553.pdf
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Perhaps the notion that masks can be used to protect against aerosols if applied correctly is just too daunting to study. 
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/f215/d2555255314e9afe44b0e47a33e318775e81.pdf

For now, without vetted research, it is easier to say they are completely ineffective if they are not 100% effective or worn wrong. 

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41 minutes ago, UNDlaw80 said:

My wife is Romanian, we visit there regularly.  Returning home always illuminates how regulated American life is.   A permit is required for this, no parking here, a license is needed for that, no boobies on TV,  don't go over the limit, you need registration for that, city approval required for this, wanna start a business?...here's mounds of regulation for you, etc. etc.  etc,  And I haven't even started on privacy issues.    
 

I have a coworker with an America is bad attitude. Here is a good place to do a comparison between countries. USA ranks pretty well in regards to regulation. 
https://www.heritage.org/index/visualize?cnts=unitedstates|romania&src=country

Once upon a time USA was top 5 in this index and had been trending upward over the past few years until the 2020 index. 

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4 hours ago, GeauxSioux said:

I have a coworker with an America is bad attitude. Here is a good place to do a comparison between countries. USA ranks pretty well in regards to regulation. 
https://www.heritage.org/index/visualize?cnts=unitedstates|romania&src=country

Once upon a time USA was top 5 in this index and had been trending upward over the past few years until the 2020 index. 

Economic and political freedom have nothing to do with what’s being discussed. The point was about everyday living restrictions…..which is where wearing a mask falls into. 

Romania can't compare whatsoever to the US for economic and political freedom, but day-to-day living is more relaxed (as it is for most of Europe).  People tend to police themselves.  We don’t do this, we have regulations and rules at every turn of the road.  

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5 hours ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

"Temporary."  Deja vu all over again.  As with lockdowns, maybe it's the indefiniteness that really bothers people.  Just as there appeared to be no real end game for lockdowns, there's also no stated or objective criteria for when the masks might come off.

Why can't people who choose to wear a mask simply give it a rest on judging those who don't?

You can do what you want.  I’m just wondering about the reasoning behind it.  We have tons of stupid permanent regulations, yet mask-wearing is the hill to die on for "rights"?  If a business requires patrons to wear masks, how is this different than requiring a shirt and shoes?  Where's the outrage over that?  Is it really that big of a deal?    

Me thinks, for many people, wearing (or not wearing) a mask has little to do with rights or health but rather showing solidarity to a political team.  This holds true for both ends of the spectrum.   

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10 minutes ago, UNDlaw80 said:

You can do what you want.  I’m just wondering about the reasoning behind it.  We have tons of stupid permanent regulations, yet mask-wearing is the hill to die on for "rights"?  If a business requires patrons to wear masks, how is this different than requiring a shirt and shoes?  Where's the outrage over that?  Is it really that big of a deal?    

Me thinks, for many people, wearing (or not wearing) a mask has little to do with rights or health but rather showing solidarity to a political team.  This hold true for both ends of the spectrum.   

I’m a leader and a alpha, alpha like Jordan. MJ wouldn’t wear no stinkin’ mask. 

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7 hours ago, Frozen4sioux said:

Science. Fact. 

Sorry I'm not sure what facebook meme you got your info from but that cloth mask is IN FACT useless for both parties from aerosol spread of normal breathing and speaking * It MAY stop a percentage of large globlets but unless you're a shitforbrains idiot you dont sneeze at people like you're trying to pant them with nose jizz. 

So to recap, cloth mask 0% effective for both parties breathing amd speaking, (actually more dangerous for the wearer in contracting a million other germs).

May stop a small percentage of snot projectile from someone sneezing or coughing like a moron in public while wearing.

Telling healthy people they are Orange Man badlike for not wearing a face pantie in public is absurdly unintelligent.

Switch to beer 

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56 minutes ago, UNDlaw80 said:

Economic and political freedom have nothing to do with what’s being discussed. The point was about everyday living restrictions…..which is where wearing a mask falls into. 

Romania can't compare whatsoever to the US for economic and political freedom, but day-to-day living is more relaxed (as it is for most of Europe).  People tend to police themselves.  We don’t do this, we have regulations and rules at every turn of the road.  

You may want to reread your post because your “point” got muddled into your bashing of America for being over regulated. 
But you want to “regulate” people to where masks?

My question to all who are in favor of masking and sheltering.... when does it end?  What is the end game?  When are we all safe to stand less than 6’ apart?  

I asked these questions early on early on of people who were supporting these actions and have never gotten a good answer other than “we have to flatten the curve”. Okay, that is quite arbitrary and doesn’t provide answers to my questions. 
 

Any answers out there from the maskers?

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6 hours ago, GeauxSioux said:

You may want to reread your post because your “point” got muddled into your bashing of America for being over regulated. 
But you want to “regulate” people to where masks?

My question to all who are in favor of masking and sheltering.... when does it end?  What is the end game?  When are we all safe to stand less than 6’ apart?  

I asked these questions early on early on of people who were supporting these actions and have never gotten a good answer other than “we have to flatten the curve”. Okay, that is quite arbitrary and doesn’t provide answers to my questions. 
 

Any answers out there from the maskers?

1.  "America bashing".   Good one, the standard go-to for someone out of their league.  Don't be that guy.     

You ask about mask regulation?  People can do what they want.  But so too can store owners within their establishment.  That said, my point was regarding the irony in opposing the wearing of masks in light of the countless rules and restrictions in American life we never question or give a second thought about.   As such, is wearing a mask in a store really an inconvenience or infringement?  Or is it something else.        

 

2. Sheltering in place isn't meant to solve the problem.  The purpose of sheltering is to buy time (flattening the curve) to implement a strategy to ensure a secure and safe return to daily life.  Unfortunately our government squandered the time it bought (at the expense of the economy nonetheless) by never implementing the second half of the plan.  Unlike other countries doing it right and currently opening, we have no mass testing, no mass tracing, no mass anti-body testing and no comprehensive plan moving forward.  Instead we citizens were treated to our President and governors bickering like 6th graders and a daily press briefing that resembled amateur night at the Apollo.  An altogether incompetent $hit$how.    

So here we sit with an economy in shambles, a death rate unlikely to diminish, a country deeply divided and no good choices ahead of us.   

 

       

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7 hours ago, GeauxSioux said:

You may want to reread your post because your “point” got muddled into your bashing of America for being over regulated. 
But you want to “regulate” people to where masks?

My question to all who are in favor of masking and sheltering.... when does it end?  What is the end game?  When are we all safe to stand less than 6’ apart?  

I asked these questions early on early on of people who were supporting these actions and have never gotten a good answer other than “we have to flatten the curve”. Okay, that is quite arbitrary and doesn’t provide answers to my questions. 
 

Any answers out there from the maskers?

When does it end? I don't know, I'm still waiting for the virus to poof, magically disappear.

 

We could start with when we can properly protect those vulnerable. How about when we have a better understanding of how this virus is really affecting those that have been infected? Maybe when there's a rapid test available for anyone entering skilled nursing facilities so we can prevent it from entering them? A vaccine would help too.

 

 

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I find the mask shaming topic laughable. I'm sorry if anyone has been mask shamed. How dare they shame you for exercising your civil liberty to share your germs and viruses with the rest of the world. I hope you are feeling better soon and if it makes you feel better keep on whining about it. Meanwhile the CDC is still recommending you wear a mask while around others, avoid close contact and a number of other safety measures, since most of the country has opened back up.

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7 hours ago, UNDlaw80 said:

1.  "America bashing".   Good one, the standard go-to for someone out of their league.  Don't be that guy.     

       

The arrogance is strong with this one. 

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Add Dauphin County in PA to the list of counties that told their respective Governor to eat sh@t.  

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18 minutes ago, keikla said:

People refer to the "masking and sheltering crowd", but I view them as opposites, in the sense that masking may aid in reducing sheltering.

I think antibody testing will help long before a vaccine does.  Instead of just hypothesizing about how many were asymptomatic and already infected, let's actually see.  Pick an antibody test that actually has high specificity (since some have shown to be completely inadequate) and use that info to reopen, albeit in a different way.  I'm not saying everyone has to be tested, but pick a decent sample size representative of the region (i.e don't use Twin Cities data and apply it to Perham) and go from there.  Antibodies doesn't necessarily mean immunity, but it gives us better numbers for making decisions.

I've said this before, but I also think business owners have to reimagine their business a bit.  If it is not public facing, how can you keep your staff safe from each other?  How many can continue to work from home?  What about those meat packing plants when that isn't an option?  Can they have PPE?  At least medical grade masks?  Public facing businesses have a totally different task ahead.  Restaurants may need to rethink seating arrangements, etc..

And of course the big issue for the next month or so is if everything is reopening, how do you support child care for those who are expected to go back to work?

I think places will continue to open, in a trial and error fashion. Maybe that includes masks and maybe it doesn't. I do think the concept of social distancing and 6 feet separation is here to stay for quite awhile.  I think that will be the last measure to go away.

This country, for the most part, doesn't have leadership that can look beyond a "one size fits all" mentality with Walz being one of many leading the way.

Last night as I drove by Frank's Lounge in south Fargo it was hopping. Parking lot was almost full. No doubt there were tables of 8-12 people within 6' of each in multiple areas indoors yet there's a good possibility you want have 12 girls playing volleyball in a high school gym in Ada, MN or Lisbon, ND this fall or FB being played in Langdon, ND or Perham, MN. Makes zero sense.

"Leaders" are going to strip away any normalcy from those with the least risk, this nation's youth, just because they are incapable of figuring this out logically.

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12 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

This country, for the most part, doesn't have leadership that can look beyond a "one size fits all" mentality with Walz being one of many leading the way.

Last night as I drove by Frank's Lounge in south Fargo it was hopping. Parking lot was almost full. No doubt there were tables of 8-12 people within 6' of each in multiple areas indoors yet there's a good possibility you want have 12 girls playing volleyball in a high school gym in Ada, MN or Lisbon, ND this fall or FB being played in Langdon, ND or Perham, MN. Makes zero sense.

"Leaders" are going to strip away any normalcy from those with the least risk, this nation's youth, just because they are incapable of figuring this out logically.

@Oxbow6 Live within reason of Frank's. Thanks for the comms. Not shocked at all by this. I miss their wings.... Ha!

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41 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

This country, for the most part, doesn't have leadership that can look beyond a "one size fits all" mentality with Walz being one of many leading the way.

Last night as I drove by Frank's Lounge in south Fargo it was hopping. Parking lot was almost full. No doubt there were tables of 8-12 people within 6' of each in multiple areas indoors yet there's a good possibility you want have 12 girls playing volleyball in a high school gym in Ada, MN or Lisbon, ND this fall or FB being played in Langdon, ND or Perham, MN. Makes zero sense.

"Leaders" are going to strip away any normalcy from those with the least risk, this nation's youth, just because they are incapable of figuring this out logically.

Walz is really bad about that. Just did it again yesterday banning graduation ceremonies for schools whether they were indoor or outdoor. Sure it might make sense for a class of 500+ at Eden Prairie but even then I think you could find ways to do it like having a few separate ceremonies on different days. How does it make sense though for a class of 20 in somewhere like Hallock?

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Are (non n95) masks mainly just a safety device for when the wearer coughs or sneezes? 

If so, they dont really need to cover their nose?

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6 minutes ago, SiouxScore said:

Walz is really bad about that. Just did it again yesterday banning graduation ceremonies for schools whether they were indoor or outdoor. Sure it might make sense for a class of 500+ at Eden Prairie but even then I think you could find ways to do it like having a few separate ceremonies on different days. How does it make sense though for a class of 20 in somewhere like Hallock?

Maybe Walz should have those graduations in the slimy Walmarts in MN. Some are nice, some not so much. Riddle me this, Mr. Walz. 

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20 minutes ago, SiouxScore said:

Walz is really bad about that. Just did it again yesterday banning graduation ceremonies for schools whether they were indoor or outdoor. Sure it might make sense for a class of 500+ at Eden Prairie but even then I think you could find ways to do it like having a few separate ceremonies on different days. How does it make sense though for a class of 20 in somewhere like Hallock?

Kudos to the West Fargo superintendent for moving forward with in person graduations in an outdoor setting for WFHS and Sheyenne HS at the end of this month. 

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18 minutes ago, Cratter said:

Are (non n95) masks mainly just a safety device for when the wearer coughs or sneezes? 

If so, they dont really need to cover their nose?

Curious what part of the body you think most of the particulates come from during a sneeze :p

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