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2020 Dumpster Fire (Enter at your own risk)

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Here’s a thought exercise. Let’s say the media never picked up on a “new” virus and it didn’t have a name. And nobody ever invoked the p-word. Instead, they just reported generically on trends, data, and observations about respiratory viruses, illnesses, hospitalizations, and deaths in the aggregate.

Would 2020 just have gone down as a “really bad flu season”? I mean, who has even even paid attention every other year in modern history when such things have been  announced? Who here hasn’t just shrugged at stories of ‘norovirus on a cruise ship’ or ‘Asian flu’? We’re pretty desensitized and resilient, after all.

Yet, there are now armies of armchair epidemiologists out there who couldn’t begin to tell you how many died last year, or the year before, or in any year from any cause, but who seem to know for a fact that “this one is bad.”  Nearly none of them have witnessed it first hand, mind you. Rather it’s what they’ve heard. Over and over.

No panic. No economic upheaval. Some deaths, sure, but mostly in assisted living facilities and tightly packed urban areas. Gentle reminders to wash hands, stay home if you’re sick, see your doctor. Pharma could have quietly worked up a vaccine, and rolled it out in due course with the usual seasonal admonition to ‘get your flu shot.’ Nobody ever reads those labels anyway. “Oh, a bigger needle this year? Okay.” Or, “Two shots this time? Oh, well, what’s my co-pay?”

Maybe we can learn something about the perils of too much information in the Information Age. Maybe being human and vulnerable isn’t really the problem. Maybe putting too much information in the hands of those least equipped to deal with it is the real culprit.

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17 minutes ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

Here’s a thought exercise. Let’s say the media never picked up on a “new” virus and it didn’t have a name. And nobody ever invoked the p-word. Instead, they just reported generically on trends, data, and observations about respiratory viruses, illnesses, hospitalizations, and deaths in the aggregate.

Would 2020 just have gone down as a “really bad flu season”? I mean, who has even even paid attention every other year in modern history when such things have been  announced? Who here hasn’t just shrugged at stories of ‘norovirus on a cruise ship’ or ‘Asian flu’? We’re pretty desensitized and resilient, after all.

Yet, there are now armies of armchair epidemiologists out there who couldn’t begin to tell you how many died last year, or the year before, or in any year from any cause, but who seem to know for a fact that “this one is bad.”  Nearly none of them have witnessed it first hand, mind you. Rather it’s what they’ve heard. Over and over.

No panic. No economic upheaval. Some deaths, sure, but mostly in assisted living facilities and tightly packed urban areas. Gentle reminders to wash hands, stay home if you’re sick, see your doctor. Pharma could have quietly worked up a vaccine, and rolled it out in due course with the usual seasonal admonition to ‘get your flu shot.’ Nobody ever reads those labels anyway. “Oh, a bigger needle this year? Okay.” Or, “Two shots this time? Oh, well, what’s my co-pay?”

Maybe we can learn something about the perils of too much information in the Information Age. Maybe being human and vulnerable isn’t really the problem. Maybe putting too much information in the hands of those least equipped to deal with it is the real culprit.

 

Tell that to the average person on the East Coast, good luck.  Covid is a serious, serious problem; however it doesn’t affect this country proportionally.  Some places it's inconsequential.     

Too many people are espousing a one-size-fits-all fix based on their own personal experience and, unfortunately, often their political affiliation (left and right).   

How this will all end, I have no clue.  

   

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11 minutes ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

Here’s a thought exercise. Let’s say the media never picked up on a “new” virus and it didn’t have a name. And nobody ever invoked the p-word. Instead, they just reported generically on trends, data, and observations about respiratory viruses, illnesses, hospitalizations, and deaths in the aggregate.

Would 2020 just have gone down as a “really bad flu season”? I mean, who has even even paid attention every other year in modern history when such things have been  announced? Who here hasn’t just shrugged at stories of ‘norovirus on a cruise ship’ or ‘Asian flu’? We’re pretty desensitized and resilient, after all.

Yet, there are now armies of armchair epidemiologists out there who couldn’t begin to tell you how many died last year, or the year before, or in any year from any cause, but who seem to know for a fact that “this one is bad.”  Nearly none of them have witnessed it first hand, mind you. Rather it’s what they’ve heard. Over and over.

No panic. No economic upheaval. Some deaths, sure, but mostly in assisted living facilities and tightly packed urban areas. Gentle reminders to wash hands, stay home if you’re sick, see your doctor. Pharma could have quietly worked up a vaccine, and rolled it out in due course with the usual seasonal admonition to ‘get your flu shot.’ Nobody ever reads those labels anyway. “Oh, a bigger needle this year? Okay.” Or, “Two shots this time? Oh, well, what’s my co-pay?”

Maybe we can learn something about the perils of too much information in the Information Age. Maybe being human and vulnerable isn’t really the problem. Maybe putting too much information in the hands of those least equipped to deal with it is the real culprit.

You make a great point....and that's most likely how the next pandemic will go down assuming it's a non-election year.  

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4 minutes ago, UNDlaw80 said:

 

Tell that to the average person on the East Coast, good luck.  Covid is a serious, serious problem; however it doesn’t affect this country proportionally.  Some places it's inconsequential.     

Too many people are espousing a one-size-fits-all fix based on their own personal experience and, unfortunately, often their political affiliation.   

How this will all end, I have no clue.  

   

One size definitely does not fit all in virtually any aspect of the USA.  The perspective and world view differs so dramatically based on where you live, where you were educated, where you grew up, your family dynamic, your income and wealth...I can go on and on...

The idea used to be that the resultant diversity made us great...well it appears what makes us great is also wrought with division, anger, and frustration.

imposing of one’s world view on others is inherently unamerican but unfortunately seems to be the order of the day.  It is fueled by ratings driven media....

now we can’t even agree on a pandemic based on interests influencing the spin and presentation of facts on both sides...

really sad state of affairs

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1 hour ago, UNDlaw80 said:

 

Models are not predictions of the future, they merely describe a range of possibilities.  The 40,000 figure was calculated late-March.  What actually occurred was Scandinavia wasn’t hit as hard as other parts of Europe.  Sweden’s low death rate (and lack of a spike) is a reflection of this…...as is Finland and Norway’s absurdly low numbers.

Your argument is akin to comparing North Dakota (if it didn’t lock-down) to Massachusetts.  Two completely different scenarios, with no common ground to make any meaningful assessment from.  

What we do have for valid comparisons are Finland and Norway.  These are countries similar in proximity, geography, governments, demographics and even population density.   Again, Sweden has a death rate, per capita, 6X higher than its neighbors who locked-down.     

 

Are these the same folks who “model” global warming?  Isn’t modeling what they are doing to predict the future? 

The “experts” took the extreme in all of their modeling of the virus and scared everyone and look what we have.
It almost looks dystopian going to the grocery store. Arrows on the floor showing you which direction to walk, lines of where to stand in line, people in masks avoiding each other. There seems to be more congestion at end of the aisles this way, than there was normally.

Something just doesn’t seem right in telling well people to stay home. 

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3 hours ago, Gma loves hockey said:

Simple philosophy about whether to wear a mask:

If you don't give a damn about anyone else, don't wear one.

If you care about other people, wear one.

I hate this “zero tolerance” approach to life.  Taking this approach takes out the need to handle things on a case by case basis and actually use some critical thinking skills.

if I’m out walking my dog I don’t need a mask.  If I’m at a location and I can socially distance a mask isn’t needed and does absolutely nothing.  Watch the Cuomo clip on this where he’s advocating using masks, and he is at the desk, adequately distanced from other people, and not wearing a mask.

You must also be one of those people that have always worn a mask in the past because you care about people so much...

 

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GF is looking at around a $13M loss in revenue so far this year per Forum Communications.

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1 hour ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

Here’s a thought exercise. Let’s say the media never picked up on a “new” virus and it didn’t have a name. And nobody ever invoked the p-word. Instead, they just reported generically on trends, data, and observations about respiratory viruses, illnesses, hospitalizations, and deaths in the aggregate.

Would 2020 just have gone down as a “really bad flu season”? I mean, who has even even paid attention every other year in modern history when such things have been  announced? Who here hasn’t just shrugged at stories of ‘norovirus on a cruise ship’ or ‘Asian flu’? We’re pretty desensitized and resilient, after all.

Yet, there are now armies of armchair epidemiologists out there who couldn’t begin to tell you how many died last year, or the year before, or in any year from any cause, but who seem to know for a fact that “this one is bad.”  Nearly none of them have witnessed it first hand, mind you. Rather it’s what they’ve heard. Over and over.

No panic. No economic upheaval. Some deaths, sure, but mostly in assisted living facilities and tightly packed urban areas. Gentle reminders to wash hands, stay home if you’re sick, see your doctor. Pharma could have quietly worked up a vaccine, and rolled it out in due course with the usual seasonal admonition to ‘get your flu shot.’ Nobody ever reads those labels anyway. “Oh, a bigger needle this year? Okay.” Or, “Two shots this time? Oh, well, what’s my co-pay?”

Maybe we can learn something about the perils of too much information in the Information Age. Maybe being human and vulnerable isn’t really the problem. Maybe putting too much information in the hands of those least equipped to deal with it is the real culprit.

Probably would have been hard not to notice 45 reefers lined up behind Bellevue and Elmhurst. 

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15 hours ago, Gma loves hockey said:

Simple philosophy about whether to wear a mask:

If you don't give a damn about anyone else, don't wear one.

If you care about other people, wear one.

The professional grade masks are the ones that are really effective.  If you really want to stop transmission put an oxygen mask over your face and carry around an oxygen tank.  Are you prepared to do that, or don't you care about people?   That's what I thought!  

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So Taco Bell has two positive cases and fired both of them for not working their shift?

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22 minutes ago, tnt said:

The professional grade masks are the ones that are really effective.  If you really want to stop transmission put an oxygen mask over your face and carry around an oxygen tank.  Are you prepared to do that, or don't you care about people?   That's what I thought!  

What?! I'd be interested in learning how an o2 mask and tank is going to slow the spread.

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4 minutes ago, Vegas_Sioux said:

So Taco Bell has two positive cases and fired both of them for not working their shift?

Come on they were essential!

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13 hours ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

Here’s a thought exercise. Let’s say the media never picked up on a “new” virus and it didn’t have a name. And nobody ever invoked the p-word. Instead, they just reported generically on trends, data, and observations about respiratory viruses, illnesses, hospitalizations, and deaths in the aggregate.

Would 2020 just have gone down as a “really bad flu season”? I mean, who has even even paid attention every other year in modern history when such things have been  announced? Who here hasn’t just shrugged at stories of ‘norovirus on a cruise ship’ or ‘Asian flu’? We’re pretty desensitized and resilient, after all.

Yet, there are now armies of armchair epidemiologists out there who couldn’t begin to tell you how many died last year, or the year before, or in any year from any cause, but who seem to know for a fact that “this one is bad.”  Nearly none of them have witnessed it first hand, mind you. Rather it’s what they’ve heard. Over and over.

No panic. No economic upheaval. Some deaths, sure, but mostly in assisted living facilities and tightly packed urban areas. Gentle reminders to wash hands, stay home if you’re sick, see your doctor. Pharma could have quietly worked up a vaccine, and rolled it out in due course with the usual seasonal admonition to ‘get your flu shot.’ Nobody ever reads those labels anyway. “Oh, a bigger needle this year? Okay.” Or, “Two shots this time? Oh, well, what’s my co-pay?”

Maybe we can learn something about the perils of too much information in the Information Age. Maybe being human and vulnerable isn’t really the problem. Maybe putting too much information in the hands of those least equipped to deal with it is the real culprit.

Why do I feel like I just got done listening to 1310 AM's lame afternoon show?

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25 minutes ago, Vegas_Sioux said:

So Taco Bell has two positive cases and fired both of them for not working their shift?

Screen%2BShot%2B2020-05-06%2Bat%2B7.56.06%2BAM.png

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Hey kids.....the good news is you didn't catch Corona which you had a very high probability of being asymptomatic with.......the bad news.....since people are under stay at home orders there is a significantly higher chance that you will get abused and not have it reported.  I wonder if kids would choose door number 1 or door number 2 at this point?

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27 minutes ago, Redneksioux said:

What?! I'd be interested in learning how an o2 mask and tank is going to slow the spread.

It isn't filtered, so your droplets aren't getting out. By the way, there have been studies on the negative effects of wearing masks, especially for kids.  

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14 hours ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

Here’s a thought exercise. Let’s say the media never picked up on a “new” virus and it didn’t have a name. And nobody ever invoked the p-word. Instead, they just reported generically on trends, data, and observations about respiratory viruses, illnesses, hospitalizations, and deaths in the aggregate.

Would 2020 just have gone down as a “really bad flu season”? I mean, who has even even paid attention every other year in modern history when such things have been  announced? Who here hasn’t just shrugged at stories of ‘norovirus on a cruise ship’ or ‘Asian flu’? We’re pretty desensitized and resilient, after all.

Yet, there are now armies of armchair epidemiologists out there who couldn’t begin to tell you how many died last year, or the year before, or in any year from any cause, but who seem to know for a fact that “this one is bad.”  Nearly none of them have witnessed it first hand, mind you. Rather it’s what they’ve heard. Over and over.

No panic. No economic upheaval. Some deaths, sure, but mostly in assisted living facilities and tightly packed urban areas. Gentle reminders to wash hands, stay home if you’re sick, see your doctor. Pharma could have quietly worked up a vaccine, and rolled it out in due course with the usual seasonal admonition to ‘get your flu shot.’ Nobody ever reads those labels anyway. “Oh, a bigger needle this year? Okay.” Or, “Two shots this time? Oh, well, what’s my co-pay?”

Maybe we can learn something about the perils of too much information in the Information Age. Maybe being human and vulnerable isn’t really the problem. Maybe putting too much information in the hands of those least equipped to deal with it is the real culprit.

Considering the increase in the overall death rate across the globe over the last 2 months, I think someone might have eventually figured out there was something out of the ordinary going on beyond a "really bad flu season" especially as things started ramping up in the spring when the flu season is winding down. And while the answer will never be known, the current death total is with various levels of preventative action across the globe from severe lockdowns to increased social distancing, so it is tough to know what would have happened if there extra steps would have been taken. But that's just my 2 cents.

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3 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Considering the increase in the overall death rate across the globe over the last 2 months, I think someone might have eventually figured out there was something out of the ordinary going on beyond a "really bad flu season" especially as things started ramping up in the spring when the flu season is winding down. And while the answer will never be known, the current death total is with various levels of preventative action across the globe from severe lockdowns to increased social distancing, so it is tough to know what would have happened if there extra steps would have been taken. But that's just my 2 cents.

We'd probably be looking at a few hundred thousand "mysterious" deaths in the US and an even more widespread panic.  The coronavirus would still exist whether the media covered it or not.  

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4 minutes ago, dlsiouxfan said:

We'd probably be looking at a few hundred thousand "mysterious" deaths in the US and an even more widespread panic.  The coronavirus would still exist whether the media covered it or not.  

Right, but our days wouldn't have changed at all and we would've kept going as a country, much like every other year.  

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The University of Washington model is currently predicting 38 deaths in ND from coronavirus by August. 

From 2014 to 2017, ND averaged roughly 150 deaths per year from flu/pneumonia.

I realize this is not the same experience of those in the NY metro area and perhaps the northeast in general, but it would be interesting to see how other states compare to ND in this regard.

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18 hours ago, Gma loves hockey said:

Simple philosophy about whether to wear a mask:

If you don't give a damn about anyone else, don't wear one.

If you care about other people, wear one.

Saw this online in a meme so I can't take credit for it:

If masks work, why do businesses need to be closed?

If they don't work, why are we forced to wear them?

I'll give you a minute.

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3 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

Saw this online in a meme so I can't take credit for it:

If masks work, why do businesses need to be closed?

If they don't work, why are we forced to wear them?

I'll give you a minute.

... and how long will people need to wear them?   If we are still dealing with this in 2022 like some have projected, will they continue to wear them until then, and if they don't are they heartless?  

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1 hour ago, tnt said:

The professional grade masks are the ones that are really effective.  If you really want to stop transmission put an oxygen mask over your face and carry around an oxygen tank.  Are you prepared to do that, or don't you care about people?   That's what I thought!  

Expressing the extreme and calling it the norm is the poorest form of debate


Dr. Scott Gottlieb

Former FDA Commissioner. 

Member of White House Bio-defense Interagency Group. 

Grad NYU, Mount Sinai

Fellow of American Enterprise Institute

BOD Pfizer

“Surgical masks” (non N95) “are very helpful in preventing the spread through droplets”. 
               Twitter 

Also Gottlieb, ‘Masks help, they reduce the incremental load of transmission from droplets, the smaller load you get infected with the better the outcome’    
          CNBC interview 
 

If I’m a couple feet away from a Covid infected person at Lowe’s, Krogers, or the airport shuttle, and he sneezes droplets of spit, I’d prefer we are both wearing masks.  
          Common sense 

People should wear even cloth masks
       CDC and the task force

It's great for people in ND but the hospital I just walked out of had over 26 staff get infected, mostly before the ‘everyone wears mask policy’. The town has over 3,000 positives, about 90 deaths, and 428 in the ICU’s. If this research hospital wasn’t using their own produced antibody plasma things would be worse. 

The most hypocritical thing here is the guy leading the state’s social media rant for ‘social distancing and masks are an infringement on my liberty’, was in a local ICU when he died. (Fox news and local media) 
 

I acutely understand that the curve has been flattened, ICU’s for the most part are open, and the economy needs to open quickly.

But still not everyone has antibody plasma, a well trained staff, and Remdesivir. Two counties over they had 28 ICU admissions and lost 14 patients. So is it really that big a deal to wear a mask right now? 

 

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