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Bubba extension

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22 hours ago, FlinFlan80 said:

I hope all of you are perfect at your job and work miracles daily. This was a once great program. 20 years ago. Bubba and he staff have shown that the are making positive steps to improve the program with what they are working with. Honestly, FCS wise its probably one of the hardest schools to get decent playmakers to when they could just go 60 miles south and win national championships. Also, the program currently doesn't have locker rooms. What I am getting at is, I love he passion on here for UND football, but let's be real this is not a destination spot for coaches. Right now, Bubba is the best we can do and keeping him means keeping his staff, which if you go to any games, practices, or coaching clinics you know Bubba has done a solid job assembling his coaching staff, which is one of the most important jobs of a Head Coach. I get it everyone on here is sick of average. Well they've been to the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years and without a slew of injuries it would have been 3 of 3. I know I'll get some smart remarks about this post, but we need to be realists. UND football is making improvements. Not as drastic as most would like, but they are noticeable.  

I appreciate your positivity. Let’s just keep this real. Bubba is certainly prone to making mistakes - we’ve seen it. As such, UND is a 0.500 program right now. It sucks and the sentimental posts about Bubba’s authenticity and passion come across as desperate. There is no prerequisite that everyone who posts on here must be a former successful DI coach. So many posts criticizing the “credentials” of posters on a blog. Man, that’s funny stuff. 

Let’s just see how year #1 goes in the MVFC and go from there. Obviously UND doesn’t have the money nor the facilities at present to hire a bigger name coach, so Bubba is the leader for the foreseeable future. It’s more necessity than choice with Chaves understanding that situation and thus extending Bubba. Fortunately,  UND football has been making improvements slowly but surely over the past 2 seasons. Let’s hope the trend continues in 2020. Once HPC phase II comes online, then the future will hold more realistic possibilities for UND. 

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15 hours ago, Irish said:

Interesting if a bit misleading.  I see no cause-effect or correlation since there are vast differences in how each college athletic programs evolved.  I just don't buy the theory that Hockey somehow robs Football of resources.  What's more true is that successful programs of any sport generate resources.  What I do think happens is that with a Hockey program that is regularly in the hunt for a National Championship there is much less demand and pressure for Football to be highly successful.   We are much more content to be slightly above average when we are winning elsewhere.  I don't see the slow development of Phase II as a failure of fan support as much as a failure of UND administrators who have alienated many deep pocket doners.  I think if we didn't have idiots in the President's office and ineffective AD's (not necessary the current one) we would see Phase II as complete or near complete.    Bubba's record would not be tolerated at most top programs but he gets a lot of love here.  That's the difference.

UND was very successful in football when they were D2. Since the move to D1 the football program has struggled while the other Dakota schools have been much more successful (especially the SUs). For some reason I still think hockey is an impact and it may just be a lack of attention or expectation as you say. I don' t think UND should drop hockey. That would be absurd. But when you know the source of the issue you are better able to find ways to address it. UND should be able to have both a successful hockey and football program. They would be the first in G5/FCS to figure it out. UMD is a good example of a current D2 school that is successful in both. I wonder if they moved to FCS if they would have similar issues with football.

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16 hours ago, southpaw said:

I work in a career field that is incredibly competitive. I have 90-day Objectives and Key Results that I, and all of my colleagues, need to hit every quarter over and over. Yes, there is room for a bad quarter here and there. But there also are never two quarters in a row where my OKRs are at the same level. 

In my job, I must continuously improve and provide value to our company and consumers. If I'm not hitting those targets, I'm out of a job.

Why is it too much to expect the same of a head coach? Chaves likely has set season OKRs for him. An injury riddled season is understandable, it's out of his hands. But he needs to be improving and reaching bigger targets. Just making the playoffs every year isn't progressing. Losing to ISU every year isn't showing improvement year over year.

Why do we hold our head football coach to a lower standard than someone working in the business world? Just because he is a nice guy and came from UND?

That is neat. Sounds like you work in a concrete, number based industry. Football is not that. Clearly Chaves sees something in Bubba because his success is directly correlated to his success in a way.

We do not hold our head coach to a lower standard than someone in the business world. The world of college football requires you to work 1-2 years for free in most cases. Did you do that for your high stress job? Coaching college football is a stressful job for, usually a terrible salary. Yep. Bubba gets PAID. However, he has worked to get there, just like most in college football and it takes time to get to any Head Coaching position. Your misunderstanding of people's work ethic, livelihood, and well-being is concerning. I know that's part of the job is taking criticism from people who have never been in the industry and never will, but come on man. No one is sitting there saying "You know you are above average, but we want better."

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17 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

I appreciate your positivity. Let’s just keep this real. Bubba is certainly prone to making mistakes - we’ve seen it. As such, UND is a 0.500 program right now. It sucks and the sentimental posts about Bubba’s authenticity and passion come across as desperate. There is no prerequisite that everyone who posts on here must be a former successful DI coach. So many posts criticizing the “credentials” of posters on a blog. Man, that’s funny stuff. 

Let’s just see how year #1 goes in the MVFC and go from there. Obviously UND doesn’t have the money nor the facilities at present to hire a bigger name coach, so Bubba is the leader for the foreseeable future. It’s more necessity than choice with Chaves understanding that situation and thus extending Bubba. Fortunately,  UND football has been making improvements slowly but surely over the past 2 seasons. Let’s hope the trend continues in 2020. Once HPC phase II comes online, then the future will hold more realistic possibilities for UND. 

Agreed. My main thought, I would rather go into the MVFC with the coaching staff we have than a brand new group of guys who might have zero experience in FCS football.

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19 minutes ago, FlinFlan80 said:

We do not hold our head coach to a lower standard than someone in the business world. The world of college football requires you to work 1-2 years for free in most cases. Did you do that for your high stress job? Coaching college football is a stressful job for, usually a terrible salary. Yep. Bubba gets PAID. However, he has worked to get there, just like most in college football and it takes time to get to any Head Coaching position. Your misunderstanding of people's work ethic, livelihood, and well-being is concerning. I know that's part of the job is taking criticism from people who have never been in the industry and never will, but come on man. No one is sitting there saying "You know you are above average, but we want better."

Yes, I did four semesters of 30+ hours a wekk of free work to start my career. Followed by a very stressful, even lower-paying job than a football coach.

At no point have I questioned anyone's work ethic, livelihood or well-being. I have questioned whether the average level of success achieved by the football team is deserving of an extension for the head coach. 

While technically a 37-32 record is above average, I don't believe it is adequate as you called it. Zero playoff wins in six seasons is not adequate. I know Bubba will get us to the playoffs 3 out of 5 seasons, but I want better. And I think the UND football team, fans and alumni should to.

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13 minutes ago, southpaw said:

Yes, I did four semesters of 30+ hours a wekk of free work to start my career. Followed by a very stressful, even lower-paying job than a football coach.

At no point have I questioned anyone's work ethic, livelihood or well-being. I have questioned whether the average level of success achieved by the football team is deserving of an extension for the head coach. 

While technically a 37-32 record is above average, I don't believe it is adequate as you called it. Zero playoff wins in six seasons is not adequate. I know Bubba will get us to the playoffs 3 out of 5 seasons, but I want better. And I think the UND football team, fans and alumni should to.

This......get me a job as well where I can perform at this level and get a raise.  Didn't know in any situation being "adequate" was the ceiling to strive for.

 

Bottom line this program is how many years into the D1 era? I think it is safe to say most supporters/fans thought this FB program would be further along than it is.

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1 hour ago, southpaw said:

Yes, I did four semesters of 30+ hours a wekk of free work to start my career. Followed by a very stressful, even lower-paying job than a football coach.

At no point have I questioned anyone's work ethic, livelihood or well-being. I have questioned whether the average level of success achieved by the football team is deserving of an extension for the head coach. 

While technically a 37-32 record is above average, I don't believe it is adequate as you called it. Zero playoff wins in six seasons is not adequate. I know Bubba will get us to the playoffs 3 out of 5 seasons, but I want better. And I think the UND football team, fans and alumni should to.

So you did an internship and that still wasn't enough to get you a decent job? Sorry about that.

In my mind, when you are "calling for someone's head", as you are, you are questioning his "work ethic, livelihood and well-being". I would say if you approved of the three previous in Bubba and his staff you wouldn't want them canned. 

They took over a program going no where and now it is going somewhere. I like where it is going and that's my opinion. I'm glad you have an opinion, but I tend to disagree and believe comparing a sport of football to a business in unrealistic.

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1 hour ago, FlinFlan80 said:

So you did an internship and that still wasn't enough to get you a decent job? Sorry about that.

In my mind, when you are "calling for someone's head", as you are, you are questioning his "work ethic, livelihood and well-being". I would say if you approved of the three previous in Bubba and his staff you wouldn't want them canned. 

They took over a program going no where and now it is going somewhere. I like where it is going and that's my opinion. I'm glad you have an opinion, but I tend to disagree and believe comparing a sport of football to a business in unrealistic.

Remember, the topic of the thread isn't whether Bubba should remain in his job, it's whether he deserved a contract extension based upon the body of work so far.

It would have made more sense to wait one more year to see what happens in the MVFC.

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3 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Remember, the topic of the thread isn't whether Bubba should remain in his job, it's whether he deserved a contract extension based upon the body of work so far.

It would have made more sense to wait one more year to see what happens in the MVFC.

Agreed, as much as I like our current staff, I don't love the timing of this.

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14 hours ago, nodak651 said:

Fixed.  Just think about this.  The Ralph gets 52% of tickets sales, 100% of concession/alcohol sales, 100% of novelty sales, a percentage of sponsorship sales, and 100% of suite sales.  And UND still has to pay for many expenses over there.  AND the Ralph is already paid for, so they don't have a $100 m loan to pay off.  Basically they are just hoarding millions in profit, even though their mission is to supposedly operate for for the good of UND Athletics (not itself).  Sure, they let 500k to 1m flow through to UND, but they are hardly operating in UND's best interest, IMO.  

Oct, 2030 and this arrangement with be over, just hang in there fans. The Ralph is keeping The Ralph in excellent condition, and hopefully so for 10 more years.

Place should have a huge saving account by now??? They do give UND the $500K to $1M annually like you mention (which kind of offsets the 52%), but all financial details are a little unknown, and maybe they all want it that way.

Also remember, The Betty is just about paid for!!! Pretty aggressive payments on that one, should free up some $.

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38 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Remember, the topic of the thread isn't whether Bubba should remain in his job, it's whether he deserved a contract extension based upon the body of work so far.

It would have made more sense to wait one more year to see what happens in the MVFC.

100% agree.

Had bubba started showing improvement last season, not necessarily in the win/losses, but the play style and know when to make certain calls and adjustments, I would have been much more inclined to support the extension, but I don't feel he has really escalated the program all that much since taking over. He has made some improvements, but its not like we are a perennial playoff team.

Some of that lies with recruiting, which honestly has to be extremely difficult right now, given NDSU is just down the road, and you also have SDSU in proximity as well. Both went D1, when UND should have, and both established themselves before UND wised up and made the jump. Regardless, Bubba and his staff have brought in some talent, but need to expand and improve in the recruiting area. It can't be a few good kids surrounded by good D2 players. There needs to be better balance and a more well rounded recruiting class. Glad to see they have finally started making the O line and QB positions a priority. There has also been some bad luck with injuries and defections (especially Canadian kids), but that is still an area to improve upon.

As for coaching and play calling, there was certainly improvement when Rudy left, but it still isn't all there. Is that Bubba? Is that Danny? Is there a combination of Danny learning the job, and/or Bubba restricting him? Who knows ... but Bubba definitely needs to have his team playing to win games, not play to not lose, or to keep the game close. To me, he overlyl conservative mentality has become a problem. If you have a complete shutdown defense, you can play that game a bit more, but UND has not had that. You have to be willing to take some chances, and know when to take them. Again, maybe he doesn't feel he has the offensive talent to take some of the shots he needs, but he has also been around long enough to have recruited accordingly.

I would have liked to have seen him take this season as an opportunity to earn his extension, but I don't make the decisions. I really do like some of the pieces that this team has put together, though we need more. Hopefully, there aren't any games about saving redshirts, I want to see the best player on the field. If Vaughan is the guy, and he separates himself in practice, then he should be the starter again Valpo, if Mitchell can add his speed to the game and make some moves, then get the kid some touches. I don't care who plays, so long as they can contribute.

As always, i'm pumped for next season, just hope we see some surprises and some nice wins, rather than disappointment and WTF moments.

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6 minutes ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

Oct, 2030 and this arrangement with be over, just hang in there fans. The Ralph is keeping The Ralph in excellent condition, and hopefully for 10 more years.

Place should have a huge saving account by now??? They do give UND the $500K to $1M annually like you mention, but all financial details are a little unknown, and maybe they all want it that way.

Also remember, The Betty is just about paid for!!! Pretty aggressive payments on that one, should free up some $.

Pretty sure it's paid off now.  NCAA reports show total Athletics debt as 1.24m for 2017,  421K for 2018, and 0 for 2019

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19 hours ago, Oxbow6 said:

The SS.com betting line to make the playoffs out of the MVC is at 2.5 years. What everyone got....under or over?

Feel good about many of our players and the coaching staff in general. Our 2 deep is really improving.

I see our attendance increasing this year and 9 months to answer your question.

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9 hours ago, nodak651 said:

Pretty sure it's paid off now.  NCAA reports show total Athletics debt as 1.24m for 2017,  421K for 2018, and 0 for 2019

Did The Ralph pay off the note early, wasn't due till 2020?  Post below from FSSD on June 27, 2018. In the "Kennedy vs. Engelstad Foundation: GF herald feature" thread. 

FSSD

  •  
  • Members

Again, one of the advantages of having the current setup is that UND could use bonds for the building of the Betty.  UND didn't have to wait for all the fund raising like NDSU and BSA.

http://www.theralph.com/about-the-arena/the-betty

$8 million dollar facility

Current balance: 1.4 million - maturity date of 2020.

To all the Bison fans - have you paid the Fargo Dome for the upgrades completed as part of the move to FCS?  Just asking for a friend.

Betty.JPG.9dfd6b16354a755fb5bb3d22374159af.JPG

 

I have to learn how to copy a post to a different thread, little messy, sorry.

Also, I found article on year end distribution back to the AD.

Aug 2018   https://www.grandforksherald.com/news/education/4486523-ralph-engelstad-arena-distributes-1-million-und

The Ralph Engelstad Arena announced its annual distribution to UND on Thursday. This year's distribution is $1 million. 

Last year’s distribution was $750,000, though other payments have been around $500,000 to $800,000.

 

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On 3/4/2020 at 6:04 PM, Oxbow6 said:

The SS.com betting line to make the playoffs out of the MVC is at 2.5 years. What everyone got....under or over?

I swear must be the only one here that doesn't !@#$ himself on a daily basis at the thought of joining the MVFC..........

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26 minutes ago, bincitysioux said:

I swear must be the only one here that doesn't !@#$ himself on a daily basis at the thought of joining the MVFC..........

I've said it for years. Top to Bottom the Big Sky is just as good if not better......look at the bottom teams in the MVFC they are far from solid......

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37 minutes ago, bincitysioux said:

I swear must be the only one here that doesn't !@#$ himself on a daily basis at the thought of joining the MVFC..........

I don't get all this fear of the MVFC?  Why?

 

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21 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

I don't get all this fear of the MVFC?  Why?

 

Because it’s a total meat grinder, a gauntlet. A meat gauntlet if you will.

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3 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

Because it’s a total meat grinder, a gauntlet. A meat gauntlet if you will.

And don’t forget the supplements. It’s like a supplemented meat grinder.  

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11 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

Because it’s a total meat grinder, a gauntlet. A meat gauntlet if you will.

Sarcasm I hope.

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8 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Sarcasm I hope.

I’m super serial about meat gauntlet. Why does nobody believe me when I talk about the meat gauntlet?

 

6AB326D5-1460-48C6-9D09-16B490C21A10.gif

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21 hours ago, siouxfan512 said:

100% agree.

Had bubba started showing improvement last season, not necessarily in the win/losses, but the play style and know when to make certain calls and adjustments, I would have been much more inclined to support the extension, but I don't feel he has really escalated the program all that much since taking over. He has made some improvements, but its not like we are a perennial playoff team.

Some of that lies with recruiting, which honestly has to be extremely difficult right now, given NDSU is just down the road, and you also have SDSU in proximity as well. Both went D1, when UND should have, and both established themselves before UND wised up and made the jump. Regardless, Bubba and his staff have brought in some talent, but need to expand and improve in the recruiting area. It can't be a few good kids surrounded by good D2 players. There needs to be better balance and a more well rounded recruiting class. Glad to see they have finally started making the O line and QB positions a priority. There has also been some bad luck with injuries and defections (especially Canadian kids), but that is still an area to improve upon.

As for coaching and play calling, there was certainly improvement when Rudy left, but it still isn't all there. Is that Bubba? Is that Danny? Is there a combination of Danny learning the job, and/or Bubba restricting him? Who knows ... but Bubba definitely needs to have his team playing to win games, not play to not lose, or to keep the game close. To me, he overlyl conservative mentality has become a problem. If you have a complete shutdown defense, you can play that game a bit more, but UND has not had that. You have to be willing to take some chances, and know when to take them. Again, maybe he doesn't feel he has the offensive talent to take some of the shots he needs, but he has also been around long enough to have recruited accordingly.

I would have liked to have seen him take this season as an opportunity to earn his extension, but I don't make the decisions. I really do like some of the pieces that this team has put together, though we need more. Hopefully, there aren't any games about saving redshirts, I want to see the best player on the field. If Vaughan is the guy, and he separates himself in practice, then he should be the starter again Valpo, if Mitchell can add his speed to the game and make some moves, then get the kid some touches. I don't care who plays, so long as they can contribute.

As always, i'm pumped for next season, just hope we see some surprises and some nice wins, rather than disappointment and WTF moments.

I expect Danny to make a big jump this season. We have to remember he was a first time OC last season and I liked what he brought to the field.

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@BarnWinterSportsEngelstad It's paid off.  Scheduled maturity date was 11/30/19, during the Ralphs 2020 Fiscal year.  4m from the UND Alumni Foundation for the HPC was also paid off in June.  

Ralph distributed 670K of net income to UND for year end May 2019.

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56 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

I don't get all this fear of the MVFC?  Why?

 

I mean they have some really good teams, but so did the Big Sky, especially the last few seasons.

NDSU is a different animal, so throw them out of the conversation. SDSU, Youngstown, UNI .... all comparable talent wise to teams in the BSC. Different style of course.

Seems that the MVFC team just tend to beat up on each other though. So apart from NDSU, and sometime SDSU, nobody really runs away with it. You have a bunch of teams that have a few good wins and a few good losses.

That being said, when I look at next year, it could be fun. It is just tough to know how UND will do on the road at some places they have never played. Obviously road play needs to improve, as we saw from the Nicholls game.

SDSU is the toughest home game, but that doesn't mean UND shouldn't be able to compete or win. USD at home is always interesting. Should win all other home games. No clue how to feel about Illinois St or Youngstown state. I just don't know enough about these MVFC teams yet.

 

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