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14 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

That’s a really stupid argument. Also, that team was white hot and ready to make a run.

The same team who lost at home as the only D1 win for Idaho state was going to make a run?  

What team did UND beat that made some noise that year?  

Honest question.

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2 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

I hear this a lot as it pertains to playoffs, if you don't have a legitimate chance at the championship we don't want you in the playoffs. FBS arguments against expansion come to mind.

I don't believe that determining a champion is the only function a playoff system has.

I think it also exists for other reasons which include:

Rewarding student athletes/schools with additional games and revenue for a season worthy of such.

Seeing inter-conference play to determine with large data sets which conferences and teams are the best. To use FBS examples, as a fan, I would love to see how a third place Big10 team(making the tourney as a 16 seed for example) matches up with a potentially over ranked ACC team(that garnered the #1 seed). That helps me as years go by which conferences are truly the best. Seeing certain FBS conferences' champions go undefeated in the regular season and then get destroyed in the playoffs has helped us pump the breaks on how good an 11-0 University of San Diego team might be entering the FCS playoffs.

And finally, the "any given saturday" effect. The reason the March Madness tourney is so captivating is the opportunity to see David slay Goliath. As sports fans we love this.

I like the playoffs, not just to determine the champion, but for the excitement along the way. Just because a team has "no chance" to win it all, doesn't mean they should be excluded. Because, when you step on that field, anything can happen in a single game. And that's why you have to play the game.

When I watch the selection show in march, I never feel bad for the "first four out," particularly when they come from a big conference.  They had plenty of chances throughout the year to lock it in.

UND lost to Idaho State that year...at home.  If that keeps you out of the playoffs at 7-4, then complain about losing to Idaho State, not missing the playoffs themselves.

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1 minute ago, JohnboyND7 said:

The same team who lost at home as the only D1 win for Idaho state was going to make a run?  

What team did UND beat that made some noise that year?  

Honest question.

Dude, we lost to USD one of our championship years and Indiana State another I believe. Teams sometimes lose games they aren't supposed to. 

Actually, the fact that UND inexplicably lost to an inferior team only further speaks to how a team might be able to play above their level and make a run in the playoffs.

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4 minutes ago, JohnboyND7 said:

The same team who lost at home as the only D1 win for Idaho state was going to make a run?  

What team did UND beat that made some noise that year?  

Honest question.

2015: UND beat FCS playoff #6 seed Portland State plus FBS Wyoming; finished 7-4 overall. 

(Losses to playoff teams NDSU and Montana.) 

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3 minutes ago, JohnboyND7 said:

When I watch the selection show in march, I never feel bad for the "first four out," particularly when they come from a big conference.  They had plenty of chances throughout the year to lock it in.

UND lost to Idaho State that year...at home.  If that keeps you out of the playoffs at 7-4, then complain about losing to Idaho State, not missing the playoffs themselves.

I agree, you don't always feel bad for those last four out. But the resumes of the last four in and the last four out many times are interchangeable, so it feels arbitrary which team found its way in at times.

The Idaho State loss this year and in '15 were awful, no doubt, but the 2015 year I think UND fans have some legitimate gripes about being left out when resumes are compared with others.

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5 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

2015: UND beat FCS playoff #6 seed Portland State plus FBS Wyoming; finished 7-4 overall. 

(Losses to playoff teams NDSU and Montana.) 

Did Portland State win any games in the playoffs?

 

10 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Dude, we lost to USD one of our championship years and Indiana State another I believe. Teams sometimes lose games they aren't supposed to. 

Actually, the fact that UND inexplicably lost to an inferior team only further speaks to how a team might be able to play above their level and make a run in the playoffs.

Yep.  Had NDSU been a 7-4 team(like 2010 when they backed in), that could be the sort of thing that kept them out.  Was shocked they got in in 2010 as well.

Zero sympathy for teams on the bubble.  Maybe you'll get in, maybe you won't, don't leave any question about getting in.

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Just now, JohnboyND7 said:

Did Portland State win any games in the playoffs?

The 2015 committee foresaw that #6-seed PSU was going to lose their opening playoff game ... so they kept UND out. 

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Just now, JohnboyND7 said:

Did Portland State win any games in the playoffs?

 

Yep.  Had NDSU been a 7-4 team(like 2010 when they backed in), that could be the sort of thing that kept them out.  Was shocked they got in in 2010 as well.

Zero sympathy for teams on the bubble.  Maybe you'll get in, maybe you won't, don't leave any question about getting in.

That 2010 team actually proves he point that once you get in anything can happen.  They really could have won it all that year and had no business being in the playoffs after a terrible loss to Missouri St the last week of the regular season in which they looked like they didn’t belong.  They fought injuries that year and got healthy and rolling at the right time.  Got beat by their head coach getting conservative and a judgement call by an official.  Sometimes things can align for teams that sneak in

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Not to bring up hockey (which means I'm about to :)), but in the 20-teens how many #4 seeds (or even last team in) have won NCAA hockey titles. 

Can you pull off the four (or five) game win streak when it matters. 

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36 minutes ago, JohnboyND7 said:

The same team who lost at home as the only D1 win for Idaho state was going to make a run?  

What team did UND beat that made some noise that year?  

Honest question.

I’ll excuse your ignorance on the progression of the 2015 teams roster. Simply, you know not what you speak of.

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30 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Not to bring up hockey (which means I'm about to :)), but in the 20-teens how many #4 seeds (or even last team in) have won NCAA hockey titles. 

Can you pull off the four (or five) game win streak when it matters. 

I hate to derail this thread completely, but parity in college hockey is a thing, and parity in FCS football is not.  Not right now anyway.  Hopefully soon it will be.

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32 minutes ago, Dustin said:

I hate to derail this thread completely, but parity in college hockey is a thing, and parity in FCS football is not.  Not right now anyway.  Hopefully soon it will be.

Credit where credit is due.  What NDSU has done this decade will probably never be repeated in football at any level and certainly not at the D1(FCS or FBS level).  Too many moving parts in trying to build a dynasty in football.  In the average D1 college football game 50 different players see the field with around 30 having major contributions in a game and 40 in a season.    Roughly a dozen full time coaches.  

 

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12 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

I have never understood "saving red-shirts". You put the 11 best players you have healthy on the field for every game, unless the chance for post season is over.  Nothing else makes any sense.

So you would play Skokna next weekend, and if we lost, you would be comfortable with the fact that that single game cost him an entire year of eligibility?

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5 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Credit where credit is due.  What NDSU has done this decade will probably never be repeated in football at any level and certainly not at the D1(FCS or FBS level).  Too many moving parts in trying to build a dynasty in football.  In the average D1 college football game 50 different players see the field with around 30 having major contributions in a game and 40 in a season.    Roughly a dozen full time coaches.  

So the fact that former FCS schools like Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina and Appalachian State are now in FBS has nothing to do with this? The only schools NDSU has to worry about right now are South Dakota State, James Madison and maybe Villanova. In Division I hockey, even the worst of the bottom-feeder teams can beat you if you are not sharp. A lot of FCS football schools are Division I for Men's Basketball purposes and don't put much into their FB programs. NDSU is an exception to that. And I wish UND would become another exception to that. The best way to check NDSU's power in FB is to build a perennial playoff program and offer recruits another option to consider. And that starts with hiring a strong UND President that recognizes that athletics are the "front porch" of any university. Until that happens, it will be more of the same. And that makes me want to throw up.

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1 hour ago, fightingsioux4life said:

So the fact that former FCS schools like Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina and Appalachian State are now in FBS has nothing to do with this? The only schools NDSU has to worry about right now are South Dakota State, James Madison and maybe Villanova. In Division I hockey, even the worst of the bottom-feeder teams can beat you if you are not sharp. A lot of FCS football schools are Division I for Men's Basketball purposes and don't put much into their FB programs. NDSU is an exception to that. And I wish UND would become another exception to that. The best way to check NDSU's power in FB is to build a perennial playoff program and offer recruits another option to consider. And that starts with hiring a strong UND President that recognizes that athletics are the "front porch" of any university. Until that happens, it will be more of the same. And that makes me want to throw up.

LOVE this and couldn't agree more!!!!

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1 hour ago, fightingsioux4life said:

So the fact that former FCS schools like Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina and Appalachian State are now in FBS has nothing to do with this? The only schools NDSU has to worry about right now are South Dakota State, James Madison and maybe Villanova. In Division I hockey, even the worst of the bottom-feeder teams can beat you if you are not sharp. A lot of FCS football schools are Division I for Men's Basketball purposes and don't put much into their FB programs. NDSU is an exception to that. And I wish UND would become another exception to that. The best way to check NDSU's power in FB is to build a perennial playoff program and offer recruits another option to consider. And that starts with hiring a strong UND President that recognizes that athletics are the "front porch" of any university. Until that happens, it will be more of the same. And that makes me want to throw up.

While I agree with you about wanting to build our power, I do doubt that any President coming in to UND believe that Athletics are the”front porch” to the university. I went to UND, didn’t even consider the Athletics as a determination to why I was going there. I doubt I am alone.  Once I was there my interest pilot light was lit in the UND sports culture.  It is a school.  Presidents are often academics and politicians who have limited sports interest except for when it is necessary.  Hopefully  you can keep from throwing up. 

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1 hour ago, Parkers Pros said:

While I agree with you about wanting to build our power, I do doubt that any President coming in to UND believe that Athletics are the”front porch” to the university. I went to UND, didn’t even consider the Athletics as a determination to why I was going there. I doubt I am alone.  Once I was there my interest pilot light was lit in the UND sports culture.  It is a school.  Presidents are often academics and politicians who have limited sports interest except for when it is necessary.  Hopefully  you can keep from throwing up. 

Nice n of 1.

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9 hours ago, Sioux95 said:

So you would play Skokna next weekend, and if we lost, you would be comfortable with the fact that that single game cost him an entire year of eligibility?

If he gives us a better chance to win the game, absolutely.  There are no guarantees.  EVERY player is one injury from being done.  How many frosh come in every season(20-30?)  How many of those are around 2 years later?  4 years later?  If Skokna gives us the best chance to win, play him.

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10 hours ago, geaux_sioux said:

Nice n of 1.

can you decipher this for the under educated?     I agree with the original post,  it is a school, education should be priority one.  Not a popular stance on the sports forumns.  Are sports for alumni?  Do alumni contributions form the linchpin of university funding?   I don't know but I have time to kill until work starts.

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10 minutes ago, 90siouxfan said:

can you decipher this for the under educated?     I agree with the original post,  it is a school, education should be priority one.  Not a popular stance on the sports forumns.  Are sports for alumni?  Do alumni contributions form the linchpin of university funding?   I don't know but I have time to kill until work starts.

Single person anecdotes are essentially worthless when describing a broad trend.

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22 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Credit where credit is due.  What NDSU has done this decade will probably never be repeated in football at any level and certainly not at the D1(FCS or FBS level).  Too many moving parts in trying to build a dynasty in football.  In the average D1 college football game 50 different players see the field with around 30 having major contributions in a game and 40 in a season.    Roughly a dozen full time coaches.  

 

tell that to the purple raiders of mount union and they will kick your ass

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I would think the coaching staff has had serious  conversations about which players they are not willing to play for one game with the result would be losing a year. I assume they have a strategy. I think. 

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Play the best players available. Go as deep into the playoffs as they can. Who knows, this staff may not be around when these freshmen and sophomores are seniors if they don’t play the players that give the Hawks the best chance to win.

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25 minutes ago, Dagger said:

I would think the coaching staff has had serious  conversations about which players they are not willing to play for one game with the result would be losing a year. I assume they have a strategy. I think. 

You do know Shuster played just one down Saturday?

Any notion of "serious conversations" goes out the window with what happened Saturday.

 

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