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Oxbow6

Kato GDT

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I'm a little surprised to see so many comments boasting around Mankato's "#2 ranking", how good of a team they are, the lessons UND will take from this, etc. etc.     Let's challenge how good of a hockey team MSU is and that "#2 ranking" they currently hold:

- The WCHA is a weak conference. Of the 6 conferences in men's hockey, they are 5th.  Only Atlantic Hockey is a weaker conference.  Look at how many teams the WCHA has put into the tournament since its rebirth for support on why I can say it's the second weakest conference.  Further, let's put into context that MSU was not invited to the NCHC because "lack of competitiveness" towards NCAA championships. MSU carries an 0-6 record in the NCAA tournaments.  Of those 6 losses, 5 of them have occurred since the WCHA restructured and Hastings has been the coach.  While this is based on prior years statistics, it indicates that it is likely when MSU plays a higher caliber team outside of its conference, they lose. This can further be evidenced by the fact that MSU was a consistent doormat and punching bag of the original WCHA. From 2000-2012, this team had a winning percentage under .500.     Since Hastings has taken over, MSU has a winning percentage of over .675 which is pretty dang impressive on paper, but clearly there is a benefit of being in an inferior conference with the likes of Fairbanks, Anchorage, and Huntsville accounting for up to 12 games per year.  Colorado College would finish no worse than 3rd in the WCHA, and I would further argue that CC would battle for the #1 WCHA spot with BG & MSU. 

 

- Mankato's ranking of "#2" in the nation is a reflection of early-season poll bias.  It's two weeks into the season and MSU's previous wins were against Arizona State....  The "#2" designation is also a reflection of prior season success in that MSU consistently racks up 20+ wins per season because they thump on teams ranging in the bottom 10 of the PWR. 

 

*I'm not saying this MSU team is a bunch of slouches - hockey parity overall has gotten tighter and tighter - but I am completely unconvinced that the current year MSU team is a contender or this weekend might not bite UND in the rear later in the year based on who MSU has always been and the conference they play in.  The notion that UND getting a tie and a loss is an "okay outcome" at Mankato because they are the "#2 " team in the country and "on the road" is highly questionable given how weak the WCHA is and the teams that MSU plays in order to earn that "#2 ranking" in the country designation. 

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1 hour ago, cberkas said:

UND should have swept Mankato. 

Yep. This team albeit perhaps an improvement from last year, will have lots of trouble in the NCHC.  Still too many upper class men who have no good history and Berrys coaching and recruiting has turned out to be highly questionable at best. 

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It’ll be interesting to see how some of the posts made in the this thread hold up late in the season. 

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2 hours ago, dden3 said:

Yep. This team albeit perhaps an improvement from last year, will have lots of trouble in the NCHC.  Still too many upper class men who have no good history and Berrys coaching and recruiting has turned out to be highly questionable at best. 

Agree. Especially with the forrwards.

Guch....... pretty much a no show so far.

Smith......his play has been slightly north of Guch.

Adams and Mismash.....they had shown really good moments but need more consistency. 

These 4 IMO are the keys to UND getting more consistent offensively every night thru offensive zone possession and/or putting up points.

Right now your best 2 forwards so far this season have been a transfer and a Fr.

 

 

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4 hours ago, cberkas said:

UND should have swept Mankato. 

Friday's game should have been a win. Basically gave that away.

Last night was played much tighter thru the neutral zone by both teams. I thought it was two good teams playing pretty even.

Defensively and goaltending wise it was not UND's best weekend but that is the backbone of this team. They'll get better and better as the season goes along.

First time in a couple years early in the season one can say this team is going to be there come late March and possibly into April. You watch them and what you see on the ice is completely different than the past 2 seasons. I'm excited again for UND hockey.

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9 hours ago, ThompHockey said:

? Simmonson was absolutely terrible on defense.  He played 4 years at und and had 6 goals.... he will go down as one of the worst players to ever pass though the program

Wilkie played half his freshman season and had 5 goals. He had size and actually played defense so i have no idea why your trying to make !@#$ up

Simmonson was terrible on defense...really?  He was a 4th line centerman that also played on the penalty kill...I don't think you through player that plays "absolutely terrible" defense on the penalty kill.  Simmonson and Wilkie are two different players that were brought in to play different roles.  Wilkie played in 62 games for the Sioux and scored 6 goals.  Wilkie is a right winger and Simonnson played center.  Wilkie was brought in to be a goal scorer, Simmonson was not.  It sucked that Wilkie left because we could've used him the last two years but I do believe he left also to play with his brother at CC.  Which that didn't pan out because he's not there yet...maybe next year.  I think Judd will see the ice more more, I thought he has played well so far.  Also Simmonson played on the Championship team as the 4th line centerman, so I don't think he'll go down as one of the worst.

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I was very disappointed in the goaltending and defense this weekend. I sure hope they tighten things up. 

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2 minutes ago, AJS said:

@Siouxhky19 Mankato was a #1 seed in the tourney last year and lost very little, they are legit.

If Mankato is fielding a better team than UND, we have problems Houston. 

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11 hours ago, burd said:

It's pretty illogical to think the team played well last weekend in our own rink against one of the weakest teams in the country and that they played poorly this weekend against the #2 team in their rink.   But a lot of people just start with outcome and work backward based purely on emotion.  

Thank you for infusing some logic into this thread. I don't even know if I'd say we played poorly this weekend. We went toe-to-toe with Mankato and were one bad goal away from splitting. As long as they build on this weekend, sky's the limit IMO

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Was at Saturday's tilt in Mankato; a couple takeaways...

Purple Cows goalie was pretty good, made a few nice saves in traffic (Side note:  When you name your kid Dryden, aren't you kind of setting him up in life to be a goalie?)

Mankato finished every check on every shift; which is what you want.  However, every whistle, every stoppage there they were pushing, shoving, chirping.  Rivera, #23 seemed to really enjoy getting that elbow up into the head and shoulders area of the Sioux players.  Must be watching a lot of WWE during his down time.

Pinto was very noticeable out there; like what he brings especially on offense, not afraid to get into the heavy traffic areas.

Faceoffs are definitely an area in need of improvement; seemed like the Cows got about 80% in the first 2 periods

Scheel was solid all night for us; lot of traffic in front of him on that last goal

Boys played  a fast game; they were fun to watch...hope this translates into more W's as the season progresses. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, crb1 said:

If Mankato is fielding a better team than UND, we have problems Houston. 

And st. Clown and Duluth

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13 minutes ago, Irish said:

And st. Clown and Duluth

You mean St Cloud, who is 0-0-2 and Duluth, who is 1-3? 

Further proof that it is waaaaay too early to be having this conversation. No one has any idea who is better than who yet this year. 

But somehow not surprised we are :silly:

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1 hour ago, siouxforce19 said:

You mean St Cloud, who is 0-0-2 and Duluth, who is 1-3? 

Further proof that it is waaaaay too early to be having this conversation. No one has any idea who is better than who yet this year. 

But somehow not surprised we are :silly:

Some people just aren’t happy when they aren’t complaining or negative.  Must be fun to be around on a daily basis.

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10 hours ago, Siouxhky19 said:

I'm a little surprised to see so many comments boasting around Mankato's "#2 ranking", how good of a team they are, the lessons UND will take from this, etc. etc.     Let's challenge how good of a hockey team MSU is and that "#2 ranking" they currently hold:

- The WCHA is a weak conference. Of the 6 conferences in men's hockey, they are 5th.  Only Atlantic Hockey is a weaker conference.  Look at how many teams the WCHA has put into the tournament since its rebirth for support on why I can say it's the second weakest conference.  Further, let's put into context that MSU was not invited to the NCHC because "lack of competitiveness" towards NCAA championships. MSU carries an 0-6 record in the NCAA tournaments.  Of those 6 losses, 5 of them have occurred since the WCHA restructured and Hastings has been the coach.  While this is based on prior years statistics, it indicates that it is likely when MSU plays a higher caliber team outside of its conference, they lose. This can further be evidenced by the fact that MSU was a consistent doormat and punching bag of the original WCHA. From 2000-2012, this team had a winning percentage under .500.     Since Hastings has taken over, MSU has a winning percentage of over .675 which is pretty dang impressive on paper, but clearly there is a benefit of being in an inferior conference with the likes of Fairbanks, Anchorage, and Huntsville accounting for up to 12 games per year.  Colorado College would finish no worse than 3rd in the WCHA, and I would further argue that CC would battle for the #1 WCHA spot with BG & MSU. 

 

- Mankato's ranking of "#2" in the nation is a reflection of early-season poll bias.  It's two weeks into the season and MSU's previous wins were against Arizona State....  The "#2" designation is also a reflection of prior season success in that MSU consistently racks up 20+ wins per season because they thump on teams ranging in the bottom 10 of the PWR. 

 

*I'm not saying this MSU team is a bunch of slouches - hockey parity overall has gotten tighter and tighter - but I am completely unconvinced that the current year MSU team is a contender or this weekend might not bite UND in the rear later in the year based on who MSU has always been and the conference they play in.  The notion that UND getting a tie and a loss is an "okay outcome" at Mankato because they are the "#2 " team in the country and "on the road" is highly questionable given how weak the WCHA is and the teams that MSU plays in order to earn that "#2 ranking" in the country designation. 

Agree that Und really needed one win.  But that Mankato team was pretty legit. They fly and are heavy on pucks.  They were playing playoff hockey and it shook out more skilled guys up big time.  They owned our top two lines for the most part. Even some of our higher end dmen were getting roasted Friday night.

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9 minutes ago, scpa0305 said:

Agree that Und really needed one win.  But that Mankato team was pretty legit. They fly and are heavy on pucks.  They were playing playoff hockey and it shook out more skilled guys up big time.  They owned our top two lines for the most part. Even some of our higher end dmen were getting roasted Friday night.

Mankato will build a solid resume again this season and end up a 1 or 2 seed. Will they flame out early again? Maybe, maybe not. A big advantage I see for them early in the season is they have 13 guys on their roster who are 23 or 24 years old. As 18-19 year old players get a season under their belt that advantage of physicality and maturity disipates a little when March rolls around.

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57 minutes ago, petey23 said:

Mankato will build a solid resume again this season and end up a 1 or 2 seed. Will they flame out early again? Maybe, maybe not. A big advantage I see for them early in the season is they have 13 guys on their roster who are 23 or 24 years old. As 18-19 year old players get a season under their belt that advantage of physicality and maturity disipates a little when March rolls around.

Yup we're playing a good team that's essentially already in midseason form, the pendulum will swing the other way as the season rolls on.

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10 hours ago, siouxforce19 said:

You mean St Cloud, who is 0-0-2 and Duluth, who is 1-3? 

Further proof that it is waaaaay too early to be having this conversation. No one has any idea who is better than who yet this year. 

But somehow not surprised we are :silly:

Duluth started 2018 1-3 and won the National Title.

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6 minutes ago, cberkas said:

Duluth started 1018 1-3 and won the National Title.

Yes. Which is exactly my point. It’s way too early to know that much about anyone. 

I think I’ll wait until Christmas for my judgements. 

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9 hours ago, scpa0305 said:

Agree that Und really needed one win.  But that Mankato team was pretty legit. They fly and are heavy on pucks.  They were playing playoff hockey and it shook out more skilled guys up big time.  They owned our top two lines for the most part. Even some of our higher end dmen were getting roasted Friday night.

Didn't see the games, but looking at what that #1 seed NCAA tournament team brought back and knowing who their coach is makes them a contender in my book.

I wish they were in the NCHC.  They play hockey the right way under Hastings. 

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