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2019 Non-UND FCS Thread

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32 minutes ago, SlowHand said:

Except for every consultant on the planet.

Except the consultant isn't considered an employee.  Try again.  

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1 hour ago, SlowHand said:

Except for every consultant on the planet.

Consultants bill by the hour. Subtle yet finite difference. 

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On 1/22/2020 at 3:58 PM, Siouxphan27 said:

First of all, people who are paid by the hour (as you were using hourly pay in your example), don't travel on business.  You were suggesting college athletes should be getting free meals and trips, and also counted those hours towards your minimum wage example.  I get what you were saying, but i felt you went a little too far with your examples.  

The last 2 jobs I have held, both healthcare related, have paid by the hour and have paid for me to go on business trips (including meeting time, travel time, airfare, hotel, meals, etc). Just sayin’

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On 1/22/2020 at 4:09 PM, bison73 said:

You mean like when people who travel on business?  

But I never said or inferred that we should have been paid for those hours.  It was just a part of a laundry list showing where ones time is spent as an athlete.

I'm with you.  I don't think we should have been paid for the hours while traveling.  It is fair to point out that it did make it more difficult to study for the higher level physics, math and engineering classes I was taking.

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30 minutes ago, Siouxperman8 said:

I'm with you.  I don't think we should have been paid for the hours while traveling.  It is fair to point out that it did make it more difficult to study for the higher level physics, math and engineering classes I was taking.

Not sure if this anecdote necessarily bolsters either view point in this discussion, but maybe continues to show the sacrifices athletes are asked to make at times.

When NDSU was transitioning to Division I in the early 2000’s home games were nearly impossible to come by for many of our sports. NDSU’s volleyball team, many of whom I was close friends with played the front end of so many future home and homes that they’d miss weeks of class at a time. I remember many of them really struggling keeping up academically in the fall of 2004 because of these abnormally long road trips. They had to take tests and complete projects on other schools campuses in many instances. Transitioning to DI wasn’t a choice they made, but it significantly affected their lives negatively so the school could make the move. 
I’m sure UND athletes during your transition made similar sacrifices for the betterment of the school.

 

https://stats.gobison.com/custompages/vb/2004/TEAMSTAT.HTM

This is an absolutely BRUTAL schedule. Damn it is worse than I remembered it. Only three matches at home the entire season.

 

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4 hours ago, geaux_sioux said:

No, because they should be smart enough to know that when they are in the lab doing their science thing there is nobody in the stands and there are no businesses using it as a platform to advertise. They also don’t provide any value to the school with their extracurriculars unlike athletes.

Depending on the work they are doing, especially upper level and grad students, they generate millions in grants and donations to the University. A good portion and in some cases most of the research is done by students under the direction of faculty. Not only does that generate grant dollars, it generates additional millions in donations for Academic programs. Think of all the kumquats you can buy with those dollars. 

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1 hour ago, iramurphy said:

Depending on the work they are doing, especially upper level and grad students, they generate millions in grants and donations to the University. A good portion and in some cases most of the research is done by students under the direction of faculty. Not only does that generate grant dollars, it generates additional millions in donations for Academic programs. Think of all the kumquats you can buy with those dollars. 

And yet the banners show hockey football and basketball players because sports are one of the main marketing arms of many universities.

And if you really wanna talk kumquats, an athlete could generate dollars for the university with their sporting exploits and then turn around and also do this research you speak of at the same time because, after all, they are student-athletes.

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3 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

And yet the banners show hockey football and basketball players because sports are one of the main marketing arms of many universities.

That is true. Studies done years ago when Georgetown was a basketball powerhouse showed how school enrollment increased and donations including those earmarked for academic programming improved.  My comments were to highlight the academic work of students and their importance to a University’s finances. 

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9 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

And yet the banners show hockey football and basketball players because sports are one of the main marketing arms of many universities.

And if you really wanna talk kumquats, an athlete could generate dollars for the university with their sporting exploits and then turn around and also do this research you speak of at the same time because, after all, they are student-athletes.

Yes they could. 

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38 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

Yes they could. 

Haven’t had a good kumquat in years. Need to go back to California. 

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On 1/23/2020 at 10:02 AM, bang said:

Maybe I got some bunk info, but what I’ve read was that Emmert made 4 mil in 2018 and 11 executives made in the upper 6 to low 7 figures. What I was referring to was membership fees. Again, I know I shouldn’t believe everything I read on the internet but read an article a while back about some ridiculous fee hikes. 
You sound like you might have better info than what I’ve read. 

He may receive that kind of compensation but the CEO/ED of a similar sized organization is likely making a lot more. Same for other executives who are in the 6/7 figure roles likely would make more money in similar executive leadership roles in the private sector. I've looked into working there a few times and based on conversations I had with people I would have to take a pay cut to do something similar to what I was doing (IT Management).

I did find this article from over a year ago and at that time it was $2.4m. Still a large number, but he's leading an organization that is handling $1b. The article also states there are 11 total people making over $450k so that number is accurate. If these 11 people average $1m, that's $11m or only 1% of their revenue.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2018/06/21/ncaa-mark-emmert-got-nearly-500-000-raise-2-4-million/722482002/

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16 hours ago, zonadub said:

The last 2 jobs I have held, both healthcare related, have paid by the hour and have paid for me to go on business trips (including meeting time, travel time, airfare, hotel, meals, etc). Just sayin’

If you were paid hourly to sleep, then kudos to you.  The original point (which has been lost thanks to resident bison troll slowhand picking out one sentence of mine and throwing this conversation off the rails), I was trying to making was I don't think it's fair to include every hour of the day spent on a road game trip when computing what a scholarship athlete's per hour "pay" amounts to.  

Here's the quote from bison73 I was originally responding to:  

 

On 1/20 at 10:37pm bison73 wrote  "away games you're on the clock 24/7."

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Apparently I'm the unlucky < bleep > here who is salaried exempt and doesn't get paid to travel on Sunday to end up still working a 50+ hour week. 

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On 1/23/2020 at 4:40 PM, The Sicatoka said:

Consultants bill by the hour. Subtle yet finite difference. 

Thus.. they are paid by the hour.  Quit arguing something that is obvious to all but the most idiotic.

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On 1/23/2020 at 3:46 PM, Siouxphan27 said:

Except the consultant isn't considered an employee.  Try again.  

I am a consultant that is a employee of a large healthcare group.  Contractors can be 1099 or w2.

Same situation when I worked for the DOD.  I was considered a federal contract employee.

 

 

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Well in MN, St. Thomas got voted out of the MN Intercollegiate Athletic Conference. They are requesting going from D3 right to D1... NCAA rules say you have to be D2 for 5 years. So, the NCAA Vision and Planning Committee ( doesn’t everyone have a committee like that?) was positive. The change must be approved by the Division I Council which meets in April. Seems some rules can change....

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12 hours ago, SlowHand said:

I am a consultant that is a employee of a large healthcare group.  Contractors can be 1099 or w2.

Same situation when I worked for the DOD.  I was considered a federal contract employee.

 

 

I had no idea scholarship athletes were considered consultants.  Thanks for clearing that up.  

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20 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Apparently I'm the unlucky < bleep > here who is salaried exempt and doesn't get paid to travel on Sunday to end up still working a 50+ hour week. 

But being exempt allows you to be on this forum just about any time you want...

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4 hours ago, Siouxphan27 said:

I had no idea scholarship athletes were considered consultants.  Thanks for clearing that up.  

You keep moving the goal posts trying to make your ridiculous statements work.  They dont.

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21 minutes ago, SlowHand said:

You keep moving the goal posts trying to make your ridiculous statements work.  They dont.

The discussion was about scholarship athletes, and making the comparison of the total value of their scholarships broken down into $/hr.  I questioned bison73's assertion that a student athlete is "on the clock 24/7" on road trips.   He later clarified his point.     When he was comparing student athletes pay to less than minimum wage, I made the statement about hourly employees not going on business trips.  I did not realize I needed to repeat the comparison everyone here knew we were referring to about minimum wage, no experience type employees in my statement.  I wrongly assumed most people here would be able to comprehend the conversation we were having.  Apparently one slow person could not.    

No one was talking about consultants (because it makes no sense; student athletes are not free agents playing for different universities from week to week) until you got involved without regard to the subject matter being discussed.   By not following along with the actual conversation being had, you were basically making the assertion consultancy is similar to a student athlete signing and committing to a university.  To me, it's absurd.  

But if you would like to explain how professional consultancy is similar to 18 year olds signing on to play sports at  universities in exchange for scholarships, I'll listen and keep an open mind.        

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On 1/21/2020 at 12:15 PM, Siouxperman8 said:

I was an athlete at UND back in the DII days and there wasn't as much oversight or control from the NCAA.

I figured back then that I put in 40 hours/week during the season and 25-30 hours/week average during the rest of the school year.

I included all of these things for calculation during the season:

  • practice
  • weight training
  • film study as a team 2 evenings per week
  • Sunday film review of Saturday game plus some light running and stretching
  • 2 lunch meetings/week to review game plan for next game
  • game day - breakfast meeting, pregame and the game itself
  • Travel time when we played an away game

And you didn't pay a dime for college. So....think you made out ok

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42 minutes ago, surewhynot said:

And you didn't pay a dime for college. So....think you made out ok

There were only 36 schollies back then, though.  45 before that depending when he went to school.  Not many on full rides.

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3 hours ago, surewhynot said:

And you didn't pay a dime for college. So....think you made out ok

All depends on if you are full ride or not. Plus back when I played BOOKS werent provided by scholarship. NCC rule I think. Sunday meals werent provided either.

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4 hours ago, surewhynot said:

And you didn't pay a dime for college. So....think you made out ok

And you know this how?  I did make out OK because of my degree - not because of a fb scholarship.

I was a walk on who got a partial my last 2 years. 

I was a local kid and in school to get my degree.  The coaches knew I wasn't going anywhere so they gave the $$ to the guys competing with my at my position.   I'm not sure how many scholarships were available back then - it didn't really apply to me.

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