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And keeping the sioux thing on the bottom. Cut the damn chord already.

Wow the Hawkzi kabul of mediocre butthurts have really got their waaaaambulance sirens reeeeeeeeeing over this already. good lord get a life.

Where do the men’s and women’s basketball teams play?  Where does the volleyball team play?  Where are the women’s soccer locker rooms? Is Queen McGarry supposed to build her dad’s alma mater a n

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30 minutes ago, SWSiouxMN said:

The Million dollar question is how do we finally stop being broken?

Personally, I don't think you fix any of that, because it isn't exclusive to UND, it is a microcosm of society today.  That stuff is our culture today. You need look no further than most reality TV shows that thrive off of conflict.  Unless every team is winning championships, there will always be a fire ____ thread.  Think about it, we had Hakstol that people wanted fired, all the athletic directors since Carl Miller, all the University Presidents since Clifford, and just about all the coaches from every sport, and frankly it isn't going to change, as we are in a society that requires constant gratification.  I'll admit,  I get wrapped up in the win now or else mindset, but I think we have to take a step back from that and realize that you don't want to keep going down that road of needing to fire coaches, or else you will end up being like Minnesota Gopher or Cleveland Browns football.  There are coaches that need to be fired, but to not even give them a full recruiting class to prove themselves seems a bit over the top.  Hopefully, cooler heads prevail, but there is so much more pressure as administrators with rabid fan bases, and our culture isn't helping matters much with social media being so much of a factor in all of that.  

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40 minutes ago, SiouxForever said:

Well-said. And the sad thing is, UND leadership could have mitigated a lot of this  dumpster fire, had the majority of the representation been able to pick the nickname or properly vote and give their input on logos that the agency produced. However,  that was not UNDs leaderships AGENDA at hand and focus. The minority controlled the outcome. It doesn't take a rocket science to see the fallout.

The toxicity and divided culture you now see is the responsibility of UND leadership. Period. You reap what you sow!!!

Well said and spot on.

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2 hours ago, GoalieMask said:

And why don’t they fire this thing up every now and then at the games?  Get Grace the tour lady to turn the key during pregame or intermission.  They could do all of this as part of “European Heritage Night” presented by L&M Meats. 

lol,  Grace is my aunt, she would make it fun.

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2 hours ago, Diggler said:

This is perhaps the most truthful post I have seen on this board in the last 8 years since I quit posting. I quit posting partially because this board had become so toxic and filled with garbage. And it has only gotten worse since then.

Constant arguments between football and hockey fans. Constant arguments about how women's hockey sucks or how women's hockey shouldn't have been dropped. Constant arguments over the nickname. No one can get along at all ever. We all have to hate each other about everything. Our fan base seemingly thrives on hating everything and everyone. What the hell is wrong with us? Why do we insist on fighting with everyone, whether they be a fan of an opposing team or fan of UND? How is that productive or a positive thing?

Earlier this week I tweeted my feelings that UND should update the logo on the bottom of the scoreboard to reflect what the University currently uses. I felt this could be a positive step in helping people who are still unhappy about the nickname to eventually accept the new nickname. I thought this would be an excellent chance for UND and REA to lead by example and helping what I feel is a broken fan base to heal. In response I was told to shut up and mind my own business by fellow UND fans, because of course. That's what we UND fans do, we fight with and insult each other.

I am a hockey fan first but I want to see all other sports at UND succeed. Sadly with the current climate I don't know if  that will ever happen. I want what is best for the University and this constant fighting about everything certainly does not help achieving that.

Can a university be a "top" program in more than 1 major sport?

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21 hours ago, Big A HG said:

I'm not sure there's a better way for this to work, but here's how it currently works:

- REA takes 52% of football ticket revenue.  Based on what I've read in this thread, lately that equates to about $375k per year.  

- REA asks for nothing else from the university.  This football ticket revenue is just UND's way of paying for use of the arena each year. 

- Because REA is using a percentage of football ticket revenue and not asking for a flat fee, REA is doing UND good because UND isn't hand-cuffed to a defined amount that they may not be able to pay.  The more successful that football is, the more goes to REA.  The less successful football is at generating money, the less goes to REA.  If the contract said that UND is required to pay $375k each and every year while REA takes 0% of football ticket revenue....but football fans don't show up....where does UND pull the extra money from if the program is already strapped for cash?

CLIFFNOTES:  REA gets 52% of football ticket revenue.  UND gets use of an arena for hockey, basketball, and volleyball events and practices.  UND doesn't have to manage ticket sales as REA is also handling that.  REA uses the money generated to keep the arena in tip-top shape and puts some money away for projects and unanticipated expenses each year.  REA sells merchandise for UND (likely the top grossing UND merchandise retailer).  REA then gives back all additional revenue to UND after they pay for upkeep and put a little away in savings for things like this.

Sounds like UND and ALL of the athletic programs make out quite well thanks to REA on a $375k or so annual expense.

Here's my big hang-up. These numbers only go back to 2005, which pre-dates the origination of the usage agreement, but does tie-in closely with when the BESC was built and slightly pre-dates the move to D1, so we'll call it is close enough. 

  • Ticket sales have went from $3,156,300 in 2005 to $4,551,261 in 2017. So instead of seeing a $1.4 million boost to their budget, the athletic department has seen 48% of that ($670K) and with the REA has seen the remainder ($725K increase) over the 13 years.
  • In 2005, the REA got $1.64 million from UND just on ticket sales. In 2017, they received $2.37 million. Costs have went up, and with that, it makes sense for the REA to not stay at the flat $1.64 million they got in 2005, but what is the reasoning behind a 44% ($725K from 2005 to 2017) increase over the last 13 years ? What has changed and/or what is the need for REA need to continue to eat into the extra revenues from ticket growth? 
  • This is the exact reason why the usage agreement should have actually been negotiated every year instead of left alone and it's absolutely crazy that REA board had the reaction they did when someone suggested actually renegotiating it.
  • For reference, if the usage agreement would have been a flat amount (using 2005 as a starting point), UND would have paid the REA $21.3 million over the last 13 years. In reality, they have paid $26.1 million, an additional $4.8 million. That works out to an average of $368K/year for the athletic department (much less in the early years, significantly now in the later years). Again, I'm not saying the amount the REA has gotten over the last 13 years shouldn't have increased, I just don't understand why has risen the amount it has.
  • Taking a look at the reserve accounts in various entities gives you a pretty good idea that they have gotten more then enough funds from the arrangement (again something that is needed, but the level and amount starts to become questionable). Not to mention with women's hockey being cut, UND is actually using the REA less, meaning expenses are lower and the REA has more availability for outside revenues.
  • On top of all of the ticket revenue paid under the usage agreement, UND still pays a significant amount for other things at the REA as well. They paid an $247K to the REA outside of the 52% of ticket revenue for ticketing/other services and then an additional $1.1 million paid for "utilities, maintenance staff, phone service and other expenses". So when you try to lump those into what UND is "getting" for the 52% of the ticket revenue, you're actually including things UND is paying for separately.
  • This still doesn't explain why football revenue is tied into the REA usage agreement outside of it was done that way almost 20 years ago when revenues were significantly less so it may have been needed, but there's an additional $1.4 million of ticket revenue flowing in now.
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44 minutes ago, 90siouxfan said:

Can a university be a "top" program in more than 1 major sport?

Sure:  Ohio St, Florida, Texas, Michigan, USC, etc. have all been top programs in basketball and football at one point.  Throw in hockey and baseball as well for a couple of those.  Closer to home, South Dakota State has a top FCS football program and is a solid basketball school.

It should be even easier when 1 of the major sports is a niche sport like hockey and the other is FCS subdivision football.

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2 hours ago, SiouxForever said:

Well-said. And the sad thing is, UND leadership could have mitigated a lot of this  dumpster fire, had the majority of the representation been able to pick the nickname or properly vote and give their input on logos that the agency produced. However,  that was not UNDs leaderships AGENDA at hand and focus. The minority controlled the outcome. It doesn't take a rocket science to see the fallout.

The toxicity and divided culture you now see is the responsibility of UND leadership. Period. You reap what you sow!!!

The nickname issue is gone. We are the Fighting Hawks no matter how much people bitch and moan and curse at one another. Fighting Sioux has been gone for now 7 years, and there is no bringing it back. Should we have had more say on the logo...ABSOLUTELY!!! In no way it should it have been decided by one man (Ed Schafer). But it is what it was, and we all know the REA doesn't like the logo thats obvious by the lack of it in the Ralph and ignoring the coaches plea to have it at center court in the Betty. Should there be a call for a new logo, maybe, but what logo could everyone get behind when not everyone is behind the nickname itself. Kennedy and company are doing their best to brand the school with the new name, he knew it would be an uphill battle with die hard Sioux fans who despise any name other than Sioux, so he decided to appeal to younger and newer fans with a mascot. There are more and more Fighting Hawk fans in the crowds and around town, not close to all the Sioux fans but it is growing and thats a fact. It will take more time to be acceptable, but bickering at fellow UND fans because of what they cheer for is just sad. We are all UND fans whether you cheer for the Hawks or the Sioux. Can we all just get along. 

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1 hour ago, 90siouxfan said:

Can a university be a "top" program in more than 1 major sport?

Wisconsin is about as well-rounded as it gets for athletics.  They struggle to win championships, but seem to have consistency at getting near the top:

NCAA TEAM SPORTS SINCE 2010:

Men's Ice Hockey - 2010 Nat'l Runner-up (down a little lately, but can't argue their storied history in the sport)
Women's Ice Hockey - 2011 Champions; 2011-2012-2014-2015-2016-2017-2018 Frozen Four Appearances
Football - 2-3 record in five BCS bowl game appearances (came up just shy of making BCS Playoff in 2017)
Men's Basketball - Nat'l Runner-up in 2015.  Also made Final Four in 2014.
Men's Soccer - Made Round of 16 in 2017
Women's Volleyball - 2013 Nat'l Runner-up, four total regional final appearances

That's a pretty impressive collection of teams...but, only one championship to show for it.

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1 hour ago, 90siouxfan said:

Can a university be a "top" program in more than 1 major sport?

In DII we won 2 national titles in 1997 (hockey, and women's basketball), 2001 we won it all in football and came close to winning it all in hockey (damn you BC). Now in DI we only have shots in 2 sports, hockey and football, but to make a dent in the dance would be one hell of an accomplishment.

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4 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

The nickname issue is gone. We are the Fighting Hawks no matter how much people bitch and moan and curse at one another. Fighting Sioux has been gone for now 7 years, and there is no bringing it back. Should we have had more say on the logo...ABSOLUTELY!!! In no way it should it have been decided by one man (Ed Schafer). But it is what it was, and we all know the REA doesn't like the logo thats obvious by the lack of it in the Ralph and ignoring the coaches plea to have it at center court in the Betty. Should there be a call for a new logo, maybe, but what logo could everyone get behind when not everyone is behind the nickname itself. Kennedy and company are doing their best to brand the school with the new name, he knew it would be an uphill battle with die hard Sioux fans who despise any name other than Sioux, so he decided to appeal to younger and newer fans with a mascot. There are more and more Fighting Hawk fans in the crowds and around town, not close to all the Sioux fans but it is growing and thats a fact. It will take more time to be acceptable, but bickering at fellow UND fans because of what they cheer for is just sad. We are all UND fans whether you cheer for the Hawks or the Sioux. Can we all just get along. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/SiouxShop/status/1088493870978158593

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4 hours ago, tnt said:

Personally, I don't think you fix any of that, because it isn't exclusive to UND, it is a microcosm of society today.  That stuff is our culture today. You need look no further than most reality TV shows that thrive off of conflict.  Unless every team is winning championships, there will always be a fire ____ thread.  Think about it, we had Hakstol that people wanted fired, all the athletic directors since Carl Miller, all the University Presidents since Clifford, and just about all the coaches from every sport, and frankly it isn't going to change, as we are in a society that requires constant gratification.  I'll admit,  I get wrapped up in the win now or else mindset, but I think we have to take a step back from that and realize that you don't want to keep going down that road of needing to fire coaches, or else you will end up being like Minnesota Gopher or Cleveland Browns football.  There are coaches that need to be fired, but to not even give them a full recruiting class to prove themselves seems a bit over the top.  Hopefully, cooler heads prevail, but there is so much more pressure as administrators with rabid fan bases, and our culture isn't helping matters much with social media being so much of a factor in all of that.  

Yup.

And suggesting that internet message board banter is the reason UND does not have successful athletic programs is the most illogical thing I’ve heard this week. 

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6 hours ago, Diggler said:

This is perhaps the most truthful post I have seen on this board in the last 8 years since I quit posting. I quit posting partially because this board had become so toxic and filled with garbage. And it has only gotten worse since then.

Constant arguments between football and hockey fans. Constant arguments about how women's hockey sucks or how women's hockey shouldn't have been dropped. Constant arguments over the nickname. No one can get along at all ever. We all have to hate each other about everything. Our fan base seemingly thrives on hating everything and everyone. What the hell is wrong with us? Why do we insist on fighting with everyone, whether they be a fan of an opposing team or fan of UND? How is that productive or a positive thing?

Earlier this week I tweeted my feelings that UND should update the logo on the bottom of the scoreboard to reflect what the University currently uses. I felt this could be a positive step in helping people who are still unhappy about the nickname to eventually accept the new nickname. I thought this would be an excellent chance for UND and REA to lead by example and helping what I feel is a broken fan base to heal. In response I was told to shut up and mind my own business by fellow UND fans, because of course. That's what we UND fans do, we fight with and insult each other.

I am a hockey fan first but I want to see all other sports at UND succeed. Sadly with the current climate I don't know if  that will ever happen. I want what is best for the University and this constant fighting about everything certainly does not help achieving that.

Missed you Dirty.

And you're not wrong. 

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2 hours ago, Big A HG said:

Wisconsin is about as well-rounded as it gets for athletics. 

The correct answer is Stanford.
Their success across the gamut of sports they sponsor is amazing. 

2017-18: https://nacda.com/news/2018/6/30/2017_18_Division_I_Learfield_Directors_Cup_Final_Standings.aspx

Historically: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NACDA_Directors'_Cup

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21 hours ago, Big A HG said:

- REA asks for nothing else from the university.  This football ticket revenue is just UND's way of paying for use of the arena each year. 

Just want to point out separately that this point is completely inaccurate. UND paid an additional $247K to the REA outside of the 52% of ticket revenue for other things such as ticketing. And neither of those figures include an additional $1.1 million paid for "utilities, maintenance staff, phone service and other expenses".

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3 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

The correct answer is Stanford.
Their success across the gamut of sports they sponsor is amazing. 

2017-18: https://nacda.com/news/2018/6/30/2017_18_Division_I_Learfield_Directors_Cup_Final_Standings.aspx

Historically: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NACDA_Directors'_Cup

So Stanford's had the most athletic success of anyone despite notorious infighting among alumni, fans, and administration about their school's Indian nickname and logo . . .

Hmmm

 

 

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