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UNDBIZ

2020 FB Recruiting

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On 9/10/2019 at 9:55 AM, UNDBIZ said:

6'1" 270# NT with offers from SIU, EKU, and UTM.

This is one guy I'm very interested in.  I really hope we are able to land this one.

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We talk about getting guys here and there by being an educational fit, well this appears to be one of those players.  Seems like he liked the facilities as well. 

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1 hour ago, Hambone said:

This is one guy I'm very interested in.  I really hope we are able to land this one.

Offers from SIU, UT-Martin, EKU.   Will be one to watch, hope he has a great experience if GF this weekend!   

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3 hours ago, Hambone said:

This is one guy I'm very interested in.  I really hope we are able to land this one.

We'd likely then have two really Stout NT commits in this class, that other one from MN who was the state wrestling champ looked like he'll make a heck of a NG.  Too bad we didn't recruit one of those 2-3 years ago so we had a legit sized NG this year. 

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10 hours ago, UNDBIZ said:

The guys over at 360 have compared Kelley to Noah Larson, which is pretty high praise, imo. 

Watched his Hudl and he hits a guy, the guy goes backwards. 

Is he fast enough for MVC?

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10 hours ago, shep said:

Watched his Hudl and he hits a guy, the guy goes backwards. 

Is he fast enough for MVC?

I'd say time will tell, instincts go a long way as well in terms of being fast enough.  Digger Anderson was only a 4.8 forty type of guy, but his instincts were off the charts which led to him getting to the play fast, granted that was in the D2 days.  I like how this kid tackles, looks like a wrestler getting takedowns all over the field, refreshing to see a kid with good tackling mechanics when so many kids playing HS football don't wrap up and run through the tackle.  Best of luck to him the rest of his senior year and into the future with UND!

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2 hours ago, SiouxAlum09 said:

I'd say time will tell, instincts go a long way as well in terms of being fast enough.  Digger Anderson was only a 4.8 forty type of guy, but his instincts were off the charts which led to him getting to the play fast, granted that was in the D2 days.  I like how this kid tackles, looks like a wrestler getting takedowns all over the field, refreshing to see a kid with good tackling mechanics when so many kids playing HS football don't wrap up and run through the tackle.  Best of luck to him the rest of his senior year and into the future with UND!

Could we also assume a guy like Digger had game speed that he couldn’t tap into on the track?

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19 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

Could we also assume a guy like Digger had game speed that he couldn’t tap into on the track?

Absolutely, that was the reason I brought Digger up because the initial question was whether or not Kason Kelley was fast enough for the MVC.  He may not be track/40 fast on paper (I have no idea what his numbers are in the 40), but it looks like he has good instincts which will help him play fast, similar to Digger.  On paper Digger may have and probably was overlooked by bigger schools coming out of high school because of size/track speed, but I'd say he would have been more than capable playing at an FCS level, which is our hope as fans for Kason as well.

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14 minutes ago, SiouxAlum09 said:

Absolutely, that was the reason I brought Digger up because the initial question was whether or not Kason Kelley was fast enough for the MVC.  He may not be track/40 fast on paper (I have no idea what his numbers are in the 40), but it looks like he has good instincts which will help him play fast, similar to Digger.  On paper Digger may have and probably was overlooked by bigger schools coming out of high school because of size/track speed, but I'd say he would have been more than capable playing at an FCS level, which is our hope as fans for Kason as well.

His Hudl says he is a 4.72 in the 40. 

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12 minutes ago, SiouxAlum09 said:

Absolutely, that was the reason I brought Digger up because the initial question was whether or not Kason Kelley was fast enough for the MVC.  He may not be track/40 fast on paper (I have no idea what his numbers are in the 40), but it looks like he has good instincts which will help him play fast, similar to Digger.  On paper Digger may have and probably was overlooked by bigger schools coming out of high school because of size/track speed, but I'd say he would have been more than capable playing at an FCS level, which is our hope as fans for Kason as well.

Game speed is definitely a real thing. Depending on the defensive scheme you can get away with a slower guy that thinks quickly, knows his responsibilities like the back of his hand and is decisive. The challenge would become if the linebacker ever had to carry a TE vertically. At 4.8 or 4.9 a fast TE and a good coordinator would exploit that matchup.

I watched Digger play, the fact that I was floored to hear he only ran a 4.8 speaks to how fast he was able to play the game. 

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16 minutes ago, SiouxAlum09 said:

Absolutely, that was the reason I brought Digger up because the initial question was whether or not Kason Kelley was fast enough for the MVC.  He may not be track/40 fast on paper (I have no idea what his numbers are in the 40), but it looks like he has good instincts which will help him play fast, similar to Digger.  On paper Digger may have and probably was overlooked by bigger schools coming out of high school because of size/track speed, but I'd say he would have been more than capable playing at an FCS level, which is our hope as fans for Kason as well.

I’ll take a Jerry Rice Type who can’t run a decent 40 but pulls away from track stars on the field any day. Jerry ran a 4.71 but looked way faster on the field, he’s no Randy Moss but still plenty fast.

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2 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Game speed is definitely a real thing. Depending on the defensive scheme you can get away with a slower guy that thinks quickly, knows his responsibilities like the back of his hand and is decisive. The challenge would become if the linebacker ever had to carry a TE vertically. At 4.8 or 4.9 a fast TE and a good coordinator would exploit that matchup.

I watched Digger play, the fact that I was floored to hear he only ran a 4.8 speaks to how fast he was able to play the game. 

I legitimately think a lot of guys just purely run faster in games against competition than they do in tights on a track. It’s like they have a couple of gears they just can’t tap into for no reason.

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1 minute ago, geaux_sioux said:

I legitimately think a lot of guys just purely run faster in games against competition than they do in tights on a track. It’s like they have a couple of gears they just can’t tap into for no reason.

That’s a good point.

I’ve also always wondered if it isn’t necessarily that the slower player is faster, but the faster player is slower with pads on.

For some track athletes, their running style doesn’t lend itself to the extra weight of the helmet and pads.

 

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On a related note, how odd is it then that the 40 yard dash without the game equipment on is the gold standard for speed.

Wouldn’t it make more sense for scouts to want to know how fast you are with your equipment on?

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4 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

On a related note, how odd is it then that the 40 yard dash without the game equipment on is the gold standard for speed.

Wouldn’t it make more sense for scouts to want to know how fast you are with your equipment on?

I’ve always thought 40s should be run in full pads. Really the entire combine minus maybe the bench press should be.

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5 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

I’ve always thought 40s should be run in full pads. Really the entire combine minus maybe the bench press should be.

Agreed.  The only time a 40 time really correlates to football is on Kickoff. And to that point still no pads, and the 40 doesn't show the ability to avoid blocks or engage and get off blocks.  I think the shorter change of direction drills like the pro agility show much more about your athleticism than a 40 does.  But again, it all means nothing if you don't have instincts for the game, which can be taught/improved upon, but also is something guys are born with.

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3 minutes ago, SiouxAlum09 said:

Agreed.  The only time a 40 time really correlates to football is on Kickoff. And to that point still no pads, and the 40 doesn't show the ability to avoid blocks or engage and get off blocks.  I think the shorter change of direction drills like the pro agility show much more about your athleticism than a 40 does.  But again, it all means nothing if you don't have instincts for the game, which can be taught/improved upon, but also is something guys are born with.

Even just something as simple as reacting to a visual cue instead of audio, like track, is something they don’t really scientifically test for either. Seems like for defense especially that’s more important. 

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2 hours ago, geaux_sioux said:

Even just something as simple as reacting to a visual cue instead of audio, like track, is something they don’t really scientifically test for either. Seems like for defense especially that’s more important. 

And if we are going to get into deep thinking, processing speed is huge on defense as well.  They watch film all week on their keys and can identify things when they watch back the film a million times, but then to be able to read a key and appropriately process that key and react in a game situation is huge as well.  Anyone can identify tendencies in a film room, it's the special ones that can identify them in a game and react accordingly under the pressure of a game situation.  Wow, some great conversation spawned from whether or not we think this recruit is fast enough for the MVC, good stuff!

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5 hours ago, SiouxAlum09 said:

And if we are going to get into deep thinking, processing speed is huge on defense as well.  They watch film all week on their keys and can identify things when they watch back the film a million times, but then to be able to read a key and appropriately process that key and react in a game situation is huge as well.  Anyone can identify tendencies in a film room, it's the special ones that can identify them in a game and react accordingly under the pressure of a game situation.  Wow, some great conversation spawned from whether or not we think this recruit is fast enough for the MVC, good stuff!

And it's why I asked the question: Figured people smarter than me would know.

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7 hours ago, MoSiouxFan said:

 Do you have an opinion on him as a prospect?

Good athlete. Over 6 ft. Makes plays but Moorhead is down this year. Certainly need to keep an eye on him. I haven’t seen Moorhead play this year. Great pedigree. Grandpa was longtime Bismarck High coach. Uncle was excellent player for UND and his Dad , Kevin who was also at the game, was the Bison QB. 

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