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1 hour ago, Siouxphan27 said:

The Jacks have two ‘quality losses’ and zero wins against top 25 teams.    

But they are in same conference as UNI.  

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As if there was a doubt what narrative was being pushed down in Fargo.
And the questioning of Weber having a better resume than SDSU because of who they lost to while ignoring who they have beaten is just piling on. The best win for Illinois State and SDSU at this point is SIU, who is a fringe bubble team at this point in the season and will likely be in the conversation at 7-5 strictly because they are in the MVFC and I guess they beat UMass, who is a bottom 3 FBS team at best and per Massey and Sagarin, would barely crack the top 100 in FCS.

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Fargo writers, Herder and B-Mac are all pushing for more CAA and Missouri Valley teams to get in the playoffs.

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12 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

It doesn't apply to Rodgers because he took a redshirt year, but are there any instances where a player could petition the NCAA for an extra year based on the new 4-game redshirt rules?

For example, Evan Holm (the only UND player I've found that this applies to). He played as a true freshman in 16-17. 4 games in 17-18. Rule gets passed the following summer. Plays more than 4 in 18-19 and presumably 19-20. 

Based on rules at the time, that makes him a true senior. But can he petition the NCAA to have that true sophomore year considered as a redshirt year for not exceeding the 4 game limit? Just retroactively applying the 4-game rule.

Also, the UND football roster website is horribly inconsistent. Sometimes it list players as a Redshirt Fr/So/Jr/Sr and other times it's just as Fr/So/Jr/Sr even if they took a redshirt year. Made doing this research much more difficult, as I initially thought it could have applied to 3-4 more players.

 

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He could but we know how the NCAA treats anything related to UND, we are a mosquito to them.

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On 11/4/2019 at 2:28 PM, jacksfan29 said:

SDSU are overrated? A lot of FB knowledge went into that post.

Yeah, I can't get on board with that comment at all. The Jack are a top 4 team that played the Bison tough and took the Gophers to OT. Granted the Gopher were not as strong early in the season as they are now, but still. That is a very respectable showing against a good Big Ten program.

 

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2 hours ago, CMSioux said:

He could but we know how the NCAA treats anything related to UND, we are a mosquito to them.

Of course UND is. But there must be other schools that have the same issue who are much bigger.

Side note, I'm hearing there's a chance Holm could be back next year regardless. Not sure if that's related to him only playing 4 games this year or if it's related to that Sophomore year. Would be great if he was able to play more than 4 this year and also get that year back.

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58 minutes ago, southpaw said:

Of course UND is. But there must be other schools that have the same issue who are much bigger.

Side note, I'm hearing there's a chance Holm could be back next year regardless. Not sure if that's related to him only playing 4 games this year or if it's related to that Sophomore year. Would be great if he was able to play more than 4 this year and also get that year back.

He preemptively applied for, but was denied a medical redshirt for his sophomore year, as he has also been injured this year. The NCAA won't retroactively apply the 4 game rule to before it was in place but he can still use it this year.

Holm has 3 games left to play this season and still return next year. My guess is he plays this week against Weber and then plans to sit out UNC. He'd then be sitting with 2 games in hand with 1 to go and have a good idea where UND sits in the playoff picture. It will be interesting to watch how they manage it because I believe he is planning to come back but there is no guarantee on how many games UND has left this season.

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4 hours ago, southpaw said:

It doesn't apply to Rodgers because he took a redshirt year, but are there any instances where a player could petition the NCAA for an extra year based on the new 4-game redshirt rules?

For example, Evan Holm (the only UND player I've found that this applies to). He played as a true freshman in 16-17. 4 games in 17-18. Rule gets passed the following summer. Plays more than 4 in 18-19 and presumably 19-20. 

Based on rules at the time, that makes him a true senior. But can he petition the NCAA to have that true sophomore year considered as a redshirt year for not exceeding the 4 game limit? Just retroactively applying the 4-game rule.

Also, the UND football roster website is horribly inconsistent. Sometimes it list players as a Redshirt Fr/So/Jr/Sr and other times it's just as Fr/So/Jr/Sr even if they took a redshirt year. Made doing this research much more difficult, as I initially thought it could have applied to 3-4 more players.

 

No need to apply for anything the way I understand it. If he only plays four games this year he can come back next year.

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25 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

No need to apply for anything the way I understand it. If he only plays four games this year he can come back next year.

Yes, but if he were able to use that sophomore year as his redshirt, then he could play all the games for the rest of this year and still get next year. 

Makes it much easier for the coaches. 

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1 hour ago, siouxfan512 said:

Yeah, I can't get on board with that comment at all. The Jack are a top 4 team that played the Bison tough and took the Gophers to OT. Granted the Gopher were not as strong early in the season as they are now, but still. That is a very respectable showing against a good Big Ten program.

 

So what you are saying is they have beaten the teams that I feel are overrated and lost to the two good teams they have played.  

Quality losses.  

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How the Holm thing plays out will be intriguing.  Lots of questions:

-Does he want to be here next year?

-Is he graduating this year?

-Will the hip need surgery?

-If we win out and make the playoffs is it worth not having him next year to play in the postseason?

I would assume he's a full scholarship guy.  I hope he is back, but if the kid is ready for the next step God bless him.  One of the best secondary guys in school history.  

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1 hour ago, homer said:

So what you are saying is they have beaten the teams that I feel are overrated and lost to the two good teams they have played.  

Quality losses.  

Does how a team plays in losses play any role in your opinion of that team or is a loss a loss in your book?

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Just now, gundy1124 said:

In Cedar Falls or the rest of the nation?

 

Neither UNI nor SDSU have any signature wins. True.

But how should a committee deciding rankings take into account FBS losses in overtime and losing to top 5 FCS teams? 

I get that it's a running joke around here about the quality losses, but if UND had taken NDSU to overtime, my guess is you guys wouldn't be sweating a possible 7-4 end of season record.

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3 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Does how a team plays in losses play any role in your opinion of that team or is a loss a loss in your book?

Anyone can put as much weight on a loss as they would like but at some point you have to ask who a team (not SDSU specific) has beaten.  

As for me I guess I can take it into account (they played NDSU and UMN tough) but they didn’t win.  

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Just now, homer said:

Anyone can put as much weight on a loss as they would like but at some point you have to ask who a team (not SDSU specific) has beaten.  

As for me I guess I can take it into account (they played NDSU and UMN tough) but they didn’t win.  

I don't necessarily disagree with your first sentence, but the issue for both SDSU and UNI is they also haven't had another opportunity for a quality win.

To use Weber State as a comparison. They have two quality wins over Sac St and UNI, but if you were to take those two games off their schedule, I think you could still decide that Weber State has a top 10 FCS team given how they performed in their FBS games.

As for SDSU, as an NDSU fan this is hard for me to say, but I think if they're starting QB doesn't go out in that game, the outcome may have been different. They looked like the better team for most of that game if you ask me. They are gonna be a really tough out in the playoffs even with the backup QB.

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10 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

I don't necessarily disagree with your first sentence, but the issue for both SDSU and UNI is they also haven't had another opportunity for a quality win.

To use Weber State as a comparison. They have two quality wins over Sac St and UNI, but if you were to take those two games off their schedule, I think you could still decide that Weber State has a top 10 FCS team given how they performed in their FBS games.

As for SDSU, as an NDSU fan this is hard for me to say, but I think if they're starting QB doesn't go out in that game, the outcome may have been different. They looked like the better team for most of that game if you ask me. They are gonna be a really tough out in the playoffs even with the backup QB.

You kind of make my point of why I was quoted, I made the statement that outside of NDSU the MVFC “in my opinion only” is over rated this year.  

Great conference, can’t wait to be in it.  However, I feel this year it is down vs years past.   That was the only statement I made.  

How SDSU finishes out remains to be seen.  

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44 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

 

Neither UNI nor SDSU have any signature wins. True.

But how should a committee deciding rankings take into account FBS losses in overtime and losing to top 5 FCS teams? 

I get that it's a running joke around here about the quality losses, but if UND had taken NDSU to overtime, my guess is you guys wouldn't be sweating a possible 7-4 end of season record.

Regarding your question on fbs losses....how about fbs wins?   IIRC the year UND beat Wyoming, we got penalized for that win.  

Point being, the pollsters and playoff committee have an agenda, and depending on how a year plays out for their favorite teams, they adjust what they consider the most important criteria to judge on. 

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12 minutes ago, homer said:

You kind of make my point of why I was quoted, I made the statement that outside of NDSU the MVFC “in my opinion only” is over rated this year.  

Great conference, can’t wait to be in it.  However, I feel this year it is down vs years past.   That was the only statement I made.  

How SDSU finishes out remains to be seen.  

Fargo media is pushing for 5 teams from the Valley this season.  Not 5 playoff worthy in the Valley this year.

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10 minutes ago, Nodak78 said:

Fargo media is pushing for 5 teams from the Valley this season.  Not 5 playoff worthy in the Valley this year.

If we get blown out of Ogden and SIU plays NDSU tough, I can see this coming up as a discussion.   

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2 minutes ago, Shawn-O said:

If we get blown out of Ogden and SIU plays NDSU tough, I can see this coming up as a discussion.   

Talk about blowout.  Illinois St by NDSU.  And where they ranked.  Their reasoning will change to suit their needs.

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7 minutes ago, Nodak78 said:

Talk about blowout.  Illinois St by NDSU.  And where they ranked.  Their reasoning will change to suit their needs.

True, and the UNI result was somewhat lopsided as well.  Very top heavy MVFC this year, I have a feeling they'll figure out a way to get 4 in, no way they get 5.  Fairy tale.   

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