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only was this makes sense is to make the east west on demers flashing yellow and north south flashing red (or is it green and flashing yellow)..anyways...east west never stops and the north south people yield?

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1 minute ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

only was this makes sense is to make the east west on demers flashing yellow and north south flashing red (or is it green and flashing yellow)..anyways...east west never stops and the north south people yield?

Through all of downtown? How does that make sense? 

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2 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Through all of downtown? How does that make sense? 

at fourth and third...doubt if they would put these up at gate city bank/ bonzers corner wold they?

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i say make south washington heading north from all seasons to h2 flashing green after 9pm...same for demers...columbia...

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21 hours ago, UNDBIZ said:

I guess I've never really seen the need for a south-end bridge.  Wouldn't it just be a bridge to nowhere, as there's nothing developed on the Minnesota side?  Would it just be a truck bypass?  My first priority would be a 42nd St under/overpass at the railroad.

My understanding of the case for the bridge is:

(1) Easier access for Minnesotans to the 32nd Ave corridor, which is the obvious economic engine of Grand Forks.

(1a) Access will, in turn, spawn the development of which you speak. How many people have looked east for housing only to be dissuaded by the thought of having to drive up one two-lane (Bygland) to drive the same distance down another (Belmont) or, worse, navigate Demers to Washington, and then have to do the same in reverse just to get home? Not to mention, during flood years, access can be even more of a challenge when one or more bridges close.

(2) Divert seasonal beet truck traffic off of GF streets altogether which, if you ask me, is reason enough.

(3) Eventually serve as part of a bypass for travelers along Hwy 2 and I-29.

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Obviously GF doesn't have someone named Mike Williams on the city council..................

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15 hours ago, TheFlop said:

For every person that wants to go downtown there are 10 that don't want to deal with it....in Fargo and Grand Forks.  I'm not saying no one enjoys the crammed in feel of it, but it's niche......a small but vocal minority of a niche.  All of Fargo has grown....not just downtown.....and strip out the handouts and it would be interesting to see if downtown Fargo looks the way it does.  The same urbanists that always want to point out "wasted" space in suburban areas.....never want to point to the empty bike racks....bike paths....and pedestrian sidewalks when it is below zero and snowy.

 

 

ah, the ol' "I don't do it, so no one does" argument.  Do we use the standard 3x3 counter?  Meaning the numbers would actually be 1x3=3 for and 10/3=3.33 against, a dead heat.

15 hours ago, dmksioux said:

Not to get into the debate about the curb cut outs because I agree that they probably aren’t needed downtown.  But as someone who uses the greenway, year round, you might be surprised as to how much use it gets by bicycle riders, walkers, skier's and runners in the winters.  I run in the early morning and often am not the only person out there.  Also see plenty of footprints/bike tracks after newly fallen snow.  Both GF and especially EGF do a great job of keeping the bike paths clear during the winter, which is much appreciated.

But this can't be...  see above, 90% of people avoid it completely :/

14 hours ago, dmksioux said:

The freezeway is a whole other story.  To me, they have a huge freezeway with the river.  Just groom a nice path on there once the ice is thick enough instead of trying to turn the greenway into a "freezeway."  

Also, they had all types of issues with setting up the freezeway.  It ended up breaking and spilling the water all over the bike paths, which in turn became a skating rink themselves. Huge waste of money in my opininon.  

Guessing the big issue is the instability of river ice, and the issue of monitoring it.  Winnipeg must have quite the setup to make sure no one goes through the ice on the river?  Flowing water can just make for such different ice conditions in such short order*.

*grew up on the lakes in MN and had to deal with changing ice conditions near inlets every winter and spring

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5 minutes ago, siouxforcefans said:

ah, the ol' "I don't do it, so no one does" argument.  Do we use the standard 3x3 counter?  Meaning the numbers would actually be 1x3=3 for and 10/3=3.33 against, a dead heat.

You darned kids with your skateboards and loud music ;)

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22 hours ago, UNDBIZ said:

I guess I've never really seen the need for a south-end bridge.  Wouldn't it just be a bridge to nowhere, as there's nothing developed on the Minnesota side?  Would it just be a truck bypass?  My first priority would be a 42nd St under/overpass at the railroad.

a truck bypass would be a pretty good idea, if they are trying to make the downtown area more complex for big trucks to navigate.  the fall during beet season is a disaster waiting to happen.

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28 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Don't most beet trucks stick to highway 2/gateway? 

Not sure about most but there is definitely no shortage of semis plowing down Demers during harvest season. 

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16 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Not sure about most but there is definitely no shortage of semis plowing down Demers during harvest season. 

Exactly, I’m surprised EGF/GF don’t do more to force the trucks to use Gateway.  

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14 hours ago, UND1983 said:

Easy big downtown business owner.

You never answered my question. Any info about businesses lobbying for the change? Grand Forks planning decisions usually come from the bureaucrats in city hall. Not a downtown business owner, but weary of people blaming them for stuff our government does. 

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1 hour ago, jdub27 said:

Not sure about most but there is definitely no shortage of semis plowing down Demers during harvest season. 

Complicated last season by the construction on the bridge, I'd imagine?  Honestly, I don't take Gateway enough to remember when that wrapped up, or if it's even done now...

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9 minutes ago, siouxforcefans said:

Complicated last season by the construction on the bridge, I'd imagine?  Honestly, I don't take Gateway enough to remember when that wrapped up, or if it's even done now...

Kennedy Bridge is 1/2 done.

Regardless of where they cross, they also rumble all the way up and down Washington, so that contributes to the overall problem.

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24 minutes ago, Big Lubowski said:

You never answered my question. Any info about businesses lobbying for the change? Grand Forks planning decisions usually come from the bureaucrats in city hall. Not a downtown business owner, but weary of people blaming them for stuff our government does. 

You can't be serious.  When it comes to anything downtown the city council (minus Weigel and Sande) is a rubber stamp for the wishes of the DDA.....whose leadership reads as a who's who of Grand Forks downtown business owners (the majority of restaurants/bars down there).  

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2 hours ago, siouxforcefans said:

ah, the ol' "I don't do it, so no one does" argument.  Do we use the standard 3x3 counter?  Meaning the numbers would actually be 1x3=3 for and 10/3=3.33 against, a dead heat.

But this can't be...  see above, 90% of people avoid it completely :/

Guessing the big issue is the instability of river ice, and the issue of monitoring it.  Winnipeg must have quite the setup to make sure no one goes through the ice on the river?  Flowing water can just make for such different ice conditions in such short order*.

*grew up on the lakes in MN and had to deal with changing ice conditions near inlets every winter and spring

You stand downtown by Demers and count the number of people on their bikes on any given day, especially in the winter, and I will stand by a restaurant/bar on any other non-downtown road in Grand Forks counting the number of cars I see on the same day......my 10-1 estimate is conservative.  

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3 hours ago, Oxbow6 said:

Obviously GF doesn't have someone named Mike Williams on the city council..................

That man will lie right to your face and not think twice about it.  

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5 hours ago, TheFlop said:

You stand downtown by Demers and count the number of people on their bikes on any given day, especially in the winter, and I will stand by a restaurant/bar on any other non-downtown road in Grand Forks counting the number of cars I see on the same day......my 10-1 estimate is conservative.  

Shouldn't you be counting bikes?  Or at least I should count cars?  People go downtown by many methods... 

How about this:  You stand in the parking lot at Ruby Tuesday's on 32nd at 11:00 PM on a Friday and count the number of people who enter their doors before midnight, while I stand in front of (insert any bar in downtown here, I won't even cherry-pick) and count how many people enter that establishment in the same hour.  Should be 1/10 as many as you, right?  I mean 10 times as many people avoid downtown as go there...  Or, maybe, people do go downtown and do things, but you just aren't there to see them?

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22 minutes ago, siouxforcefans said:

Shouldn't you be counting bikes?  Or at least I should count cars?  People go downtown by many methods... 

How about this:  You stand in the parking lot at Ruby Tuesday's on 32nd at 11:00 PM on a Friday and count the number of people who enter their doors before midnight, while I stand in front of (insert any bar in downtown here, I won't even cherry-pick) and count how many people enter that establishment in the same hour.  Should be 1/10 as many as you, right?  I mean 10 times as many people avoid downtown as go there...  Or, maybe, people do go downtown and do things, but you just aren't there to see them?

Go beyond that, just count people between the ages of 20 and 35.  The ones the town needs to attract and retain.

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1 hour ago, siouxforcefans said:

Shouldn't you be counting bikes?  Or at least I should count cars?  People go downtown by many methods... 

How about this:  You stand in the parking lot at Ruby Tuesday's on 32nd at 11:00 PM on a Friday and count the number of people who enter their doors before midnight, while I stand in front of (insert any bar in downtown here, I won't even cherry-pick) and count how many people enter that establishment in the same hour.  Should be 1/10 as many as you, right?  I mean 10 times as many people avoid downtown as go there...  Or, maybe, people do go downtown and do things, but you just aren't there to see them?

So downtown has the late night bar scene cornered on Friday and Saturday nights (during the school year).....don't see alot of bikes that time of night and people aren't walking from campus to get there......so why the need for more bike Lanes and bumpouts?  But I'll give you standing at any downtown bar and counting people during an entire week.  Then I'll stand outside BWW that same week and see which place does more business.  Not saying downtown shouldn't exist, but it also shouldn't get a disproportionate amount of the resources since a week involves more than just a couple hours two nights a week. 

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1 hour ago, TheFlop said:

So downtown has the late night bar scene cornered on Friday and Saturday nights (during the school year).....don't see alot of bikes that time of night and people aren't walking from campus to get there......so why the need for more bike Lanes and bumpouts?  But I'll give you standing at any downtown bar and counting people during an entire week.  Then I'll stand outside BWW that same week and see which place does more business.  Not saying downtown shouldn't exist, but it also shouldn't get a disproportionate amount of the resources since a week involves more than just a couple hours two nights a week. 

Where were bike lanes mentioned in the article on the Demers Ave vote? 

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i just wanna get this straight..curb cutouts are designed to reduce the distance i have to walk from one street corner to the next...say instead of being in the street for 40 feet they will reduce that down to 30 and increase my safety by reducing the time i spend crossing the street...serious question here...

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2 hours ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

i just wanna get this straight..curb cutouts are designed to reduce the distance i have to walk from one street corner to the next...say instead of being in the street for 40 feet they will reduce that down to 30 and increase my safety by reducing the time i spend crossing the street...serious question here...

I would assume some sort of "safety" feature, but the original article from the GF Herald, didn't mention one thing about safety. 

Just how other towns were doing it, and it made the downtown more vibrant.

Unless "more walkable" meant safety...They are literally spending $6.5 million for a better downtown walking experience.

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