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The Sicatoka

New Hospital Facility in GF

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On 2/8/2018 at 5:45 PM, moser53 said:

Would expect Bismarck to be next $400 million. GF again  last place.  Will Minot or Williston overtake GF in population? West Fargo at it's current pace only a mmatter of time.

 

With failing corner stone organizations like Altru and UND, I think GF/EGF will continue to stay pretty stagnant while F/M and Bis/Man continue to boom. Minot will only fluctuate with fake populations deriving from oil activity, but if drilling continues to head east, and oil prices go up again, Minot will surely pass GF as well. Minot has the infrastructure to support those gains, mostly because they're already not far off. Infrastructure in Dickinson and Williston has come along way, but would need to double once again to get in the 60k supportive range so they won't pass GF for a very long time, if ever. WF will surely pass GF no problem within the next decade. 

 

The entire NE part of the state is struggling. Check out the ND city population list of every town listed over 1,000 people. Pretty much any town listed with a population decline is in the NE part of the state outside of small hand-full. Cities showing substantial population increases are all found everywhere around ND BESIDES the NE part of the state. 

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3 minutes ago, northernraider said:

Hospitals are expensive...CT Scanners, MRI Machines, operating rooms, these are not cheap items.

As a comparison, the new Sanford Hospital cost $494 million, Minot $383 million, Crookston $47 Million

Absolutely they are! But with other very comparable facilities popping up in the State, why is it that the Altru facility is so much more unimpressive?  If you showed me Fargo Sanford, Minot Trinity and GF Altru I would've guessed Altru's facility would be less than half the cost of Trinity's.

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With attitudes like shown on this board no wonder people think grand forks is failing

Fargo has enough people that it almost generates its own economy.

Drive thru Williston ,it’s not a nice looking town, it’s an oil town, who knows how many people live there.

Bismarck as state capital will continue to grow, look how many lawyers live there.

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2 minutes ago, Kab said:

With attitudes like shown on this board no wonder people think grand forks is failing

Fargo has enough people that it almost generates its own economy.

Drive thru Williston ,it’s not a nice looking town, it’s an oil town, who knows how many people live there.

Bismarck as state capital will continue to grow, look how many lawyers live there.

Every summer, you see more apartment buildings being built in Grand Forks. If people are leaving in droves, who is living in these units? Ghosts? (sarcasm) :silly:

I have said it before, Grand Forks has an inferiority complex and Fargo has a superiority complex. They think they are Minneapolis, but they aren't. And they should be thankful that they aren't like the Twin Cities; too many people, too much congestion and way too much stress.

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1 minute ago, Kab said:

With attitudes like shown on this board no wonder people think grand forks is failing

Fargo has enough people that it almost generates its own economy.

Drive thru Williston ,it’s not a nice looking town, it’s an oil town, who knows how many people live there.

Bismarck as state capital will continue to grow, look how many lawyers live there.

Yes, I was curious why there is a perception that UND is a "failing" cornerstone?  In comparison to what, who?  By what metric is UND failing in comparison to regional/national peers? UND is booming with construction right now. A new interim president with a lot of support, enthusiasm and momentum is about to take the helm, and there is an opportunity to build on what has been a very successive strategic plan, moving forward, as we pick a new permanent leader? Hardly failing. 

Not directed at you... just agreeing with your post.

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Most American cities the size of Grand Forks would love to have the type of transformation going on, especially downtown, that Grand Forks has seen and will continue to see over the next few years. It just so happens that the cities in the region that Grand Forks is being compared to are experiencing far above average growth. 

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22 minutes ago, Teeder11 said:

Yes, I was curious why there is a perception that UND is a "failing" cornerstone?  In comparison to what, who?  By what metric is UND failing in comparison to regional/national peers? UND is booming with construction right now. A new interim president with a lot of support, enthusiasm and momentum is about to take the helm, and there is an opportunity to build on what has been a very successive strategic plan, moving forward, as we pick a new permanent leader? Hardly failing. 

Not directed at you... just agreeing with your post.

Perhaps they meant hockey, back to back sub .500 seasons in the NCHC could be seen as failing.  (I have no doubt they will be back soon though!)

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14 minutes ago, Teeder11 said:

Yes, I was curious why there is a perception that UND is a "failing" cornerstone?  In comparison to what, who?  By what metric is UND failing in comparison to regional/national peers? UND is booming with construction right now. A new interim president with a lot of support, enthusiasm and momentum is about to take the helm, and there is an opportunity to build on what has been a very successive strategic plan, moving forward, as we pick a new permanent leader? Hardly failing. 

Not directed at you... just agreeing with your post.

My comment of the 2 cornerstone organizations failing was mostly directed at Altru instead of UND. But with UND there is an argument there: Enrollment is down, sports are being cut, President controversy, split fan base on the mascot, underpaid administrative employees, funding concerns, Ray Richards debacle, debatably the worst season for all athletics in the past decade led by a the one used-to-be strong hold of hockey. Putting pride aside, I'd say it's a fair assessment to say that UND has gone down a pretty rough patch recently. 

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2 minutes ago, OgieOgilthorpe said:

My comment of the 2 cornerstone organizations failing was mostly directed at Altru instead of UND. But with UND there is an argument there: Enrollment is down, sports are being cut, President controversy, split fan base on the mascot, underpaid administrative employees, funding concerns, Ray Richards debacle, debatably the worst season for all athletics in the past decade led by a the one used-to-be strong hold of hockey. Putting pride aside, I'd say it's a fair assessment to say that UND has gone down a pretty rough patch recently. 

Enrollment is down big time nationally, and will keep going that way unless schools put more courses and majors online, which UND is doing more and more each semester.

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2 minutes ago, ChrisUND1 said:

Perhaps they meant hockey, back to back sub .500 seasons in the NCHC could be seen as failing.  (I have no doubt they will be back soon though!)

And most people do think of hockey when they think of UND. And unfortunately the next two recent things that will come to mind will be the Kennedy drama and sports being cut. 

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18 minutes ago, OgieOgilthorpe said:

My comment of the 2 cornerstone organizations failing was mostly directed at Altru instead of UND. But with UND there is an argument there: Enrollment is down, sports are being cut, President controversy, split fan base on the mascot, underpaid administrative employees, funding concerns, Ray Richards debacle, debatably the worst season for all athletics in the past decade led by a the one used-to-be strong hold of hockey. Putting pride aside, I'd say it's a fair assessment to say that UND has gone down a pretty rough patch recently. 

Sports were cut years ago due to budget reductions from the state. UND is building a brand new union, renovating the library, will get a new business school, and that's on top of new Wilkerson, med school, HPC, Engineering school, education building, Robin Hall, among others in the last 5 years. Med school enrollment is increasing as is aerospace. A lot of what you said is based on perception of those certain situations.. 

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26 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Every summer, you see more apartment buildings being built in Grand Forks. If people are leaving in droves, who is living in these units? Ghosts? (sarcasm) :silly:

I have said it before, Grand Forks has an inferiority complex and Fargo has a superiority complex. They think they are Minneapolis, but they aren't. And they should be thankful that they aren't like the Twin Cities; too many people, too much congestion and way too much stress.

Who ever said people are leaving in droves? They aren't and no one said that. Grand Forks' population can be seen more as stagnant than as booming, but yes if you look, GF is seeing a small and steady population growth, which is great! It just doesn't stack up with the 2 of the 3 comparable cities in the state. 

Also, side note-- New apartment complexes going up is a combination of new people moving to town BUT even more so about turnover of older buildings. Older crippling complexes are being taken down so people shift to the next best. 

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3 minutes ago, forksandspoons said:

Sports were cut years ago due to budget reductions from the state. UND is building a brand new union, renovating the library, will get a new business school, and that's on top of new Wilkerson, med school, HPC, Engineering school, education building, Robin Hall, among others in the last 5 years. Med school enrollment is increasing as is aerospace. A lot of what you said is based on perspective of those certain situations.. 

Outside a few of those biggest projects I didn't realize there were that many other new buildings being developed so that's great to hear. 

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1 minute ago, OgieOgilthorpe said:

Who ever said people are leaving in droves? They aren't and no one said that. Grand Forks' population can be seen more as stagnant than as booming, but yes if you look, GF is seeing a small and steady population growth, which is great! It just doesn't stack up with the 2 of the 3 comparable cities in the state. 

Also, side note-- New apartment complexes going up is a combination of new people moving to town BUT even more so about turnover of older buildings. Older crippling complexes are being taken down so people shift to the next best. 

Jackrabbit growth has problems of its own. I prefer slow, steady growth. Then city services can keep up.

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4 minutes ago, OgieOgilthorpe said:

Outside a few of those biggest projects I didn't realize there were that many other new buildings being developed so that's great to hear. 

This is a fairly good summation but still doesn't capture everything.  The campus is under complete transformation right now. 

http://blogs.und.edu/und-today/2019/05/under-construction/

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8 minutes ago, OgieOgilthorpe said:

Outside a few of those biggest projects I didn't realize there were that many other new buildings being developed so that's great to hear. 

Here is a birds-eye-view of University Avenue from a few days ago.

 

U Avenue.jpg

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22 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Jackrabbit growth has problems of its own. I prefer slow, steady growth. Then city services can keep up.

There's nothing negative about slow and steady. If GF could keep up this pace that would be great. I'm sure you're aware of the problems uncontrolled populations can cause for communities based off of what happened in Williston, Dickinson and Minot. It's not good. 

I'm honestly just mainly curious what has made GF miss out on these larger population increases we're seeing all around them? They're seeing growth yes, which is great, but for comparison since 2010 smaller Minot has grown roughly 12,000 people (14,000 at one point), Bismarck has grown roughly 20,000 people (not to mention  Mandan's 7,000 or Lincoln's 2,000), Fargo has grown 35,000 people (not to mention WF's 20,000 or moorhead's 5,000) and GF has only seen about 8,000 (with virtually no growth in EGF or Thompson). Seemed alarming to me that Bismarck's ugly little brother has seen the same growth as the entire GF metro. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Teeder11 said:

This is a fairly good summation but still doesn't capture everything.  The campus is under complete transformation right now. 

http://blogs.und.edu/und-today/2019/05/under-construction/

I know I missed a few: Old president's building. The building being turned into the new data science center or whatever - Babcock? I thought there was talks about Merrifield being renovated as some time, too? And then there is talk about a new STEM facility in the Hyslop, and a few multi-use, private-public partnership buildings along university.  

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5 minutes ago, forksandspoons said:

I know I missed a few: Old president's building. The building being turned into the new data science center or whatever - Babcock? I thought there was talks about Merrifield being renovated as some time, too? And then there is talk about a new STEM facility in the Hyslop, and a few multi-use, private-public partnership buildings along university.  

Are a lot of older buildings coming down to make room for these? I can't picture many places for campus to expand, so I'm assuming it's out with the old and in with the new mostly?

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1 minute ago, OgieOgilthorpe said:

Are a lot of older buildings coming down to make room for these? I can't picture many places for campus to expand, so I'm assuming it's out with the old and in with the new mostly?

They demolished tens of buildings over the past few years. 

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If Grand Forks were in any other region of the country it would be the shining star of regional growth. 

Instead it has oil-fueled Bismarck and Minot, and super-self-assured Fargo, as comparison points next door. 

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Grand Forks has a lot to improve but it’s absolutely not dying. It’s got a nice growth rate. I think people also forget that it was ravaged by a flood 20 years ago. A lot of places never recover from that type of trauma. Hopefully Altru can raise the level of care in their new facility and fix their financial woes. 

Also, not sure how the Minot facility can be viewed as vastly superior. Looks ordinary to me. It also doesn’t appear that they gave a rip about how landscape can improve recovery, in the video it appears Altru did.

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I don't know much about the new Trinity building, but Trinity is generally the worst hospital in North Dakota by a wide margin.

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22 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

If Grand Forks were in any other region of the country it would be the shining star of regional growth. 

Instead it has oil-fueled Bismarck and Minot, and super-self-assured Fargo, as comparison points next door. 

That's a little exaggerated. There are many regions around the country that are seeing growth far beyond what we're seeing in B/M and F/M areas. The F/M area just barely cracks the top 20 in the US so I'm assuming GF isn't even near the top 250...but I get your point. There are many many regions where GF would be the shining star still. 

So GF is mainly missing out on the growth due to not being the capital like Biz, not being on the far edge of the oil boom like Minot and little bit of Biz, and just isn't named Fargo who is a little closer to MNPLS to feed off of. 

For the record, I think it's comical listening to F/M residents speak of their city like it's a giant metro. And when they talk about MNPLS it's like they bow down to them as the megacity of the world. I rarely have the heart to explain to them how small Fargo actually is when you step back and look at the US. They'll be lucky to pass West Valley City for the 199th largest city in the US. Ever heard of it? No? Well, then no one else outside of the upper mid west has ever heard of Fargo either. 

 

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