UND to cut women's hockey

[ringneck28]

25 minutes ago, HockeyMom said:

This thread and its comments make me even sadder than the program being cut.

How it was done was completely classless.  And to read that the photo of the players being on the ice was a lie...come on!  Former players found out about it and started showing up at The Ralph-that's how they knew something was up. 

Have some compassion, people.  These are UND athletes, recruits and coaches that had their lives completely turned around yesterday.  And they found out about it on Twitter.  

Not to be harsh, but the reality is, someone in the WCHA leaked this to a source in Wisconsin to get back at UND for leaving the men's conference.  Yes, they found out about it on twitter because of a jacka$$ move by someone inside the WCHA.  Brad didn't leak it, but he only RETWEETED the source that sent out the news.  If you think for one minute that the program didn't have an inclination of this coming then there is naivety involved.  Certain sports had to be cut.  Summit league doesn't have swimming and diving, so that is a no brainer.  The next sport to cut would be the one losing the most money.  By cutting these 2 sports, it effects the least amount of people and has the most financial impact.  Unless there is a large donor who would step up and finance the losses, this is what needed to be done.  Again, sorry to be so blunt, GOOD LEADERS MAKE TOUGH DECISIONS. 

[TNF]

Here is the summary of key talking points to anyone fighting this;

1). Financials- the "buck" stops here.  UND needed to cut $1.3 million and women's hockey loses more than $2 million a year if you apply their share of REA expenses.  With having to maintain 16 teams I'm not sure cutting any other combination of programs would have made the numbers work especially if they want to invest more in some of the remaining programs.  

Financials are as black and white as it gets but IF you aren't a numbers person here are a few more;

2) Support- Attendance simply is not there despite being a fixture in the national polls. The lack of support for good teams points to a limited market that will consume this product at the present time. Even if attendance is increased dramatically it won't raise much revenue because kids get in free, champions club members get in free, and many weekends tickets are $5 or less for everyone else.  

3)  Chance at a natty-  As I said above they are a bit of a long shot between perrieniel powers out west, how scheduling/pairwise works, etc.  Please note this item is in the #3 spot behind financials and support  Sure other UND programs are long shots or no shots but they arent losing $2M a year either and have better attendance.  

Then there are counter arguments mainly olympians.  How often when the twins are on national tv like on the Today Show do they mention UND once?  It just doesn't come up in interviews.  And sure they mention where they play during the tournament which attracts more future olympians to UND  But even with all of these olympians coming through the program the financials still do not work and people are still not going to the games.  U of M has had tremendous success in women's hockey and their team loses just as much money as ours.  We could justify keeping women's hockey as long as we had the money to support it but those days have come and gone  unfortanetly.  

 

Full disclosure the fact that any programs were cut is sad and I feel aweful for those impacted. But if people step off their social media soapboxes and research this move not only does it make the most sense it might have been the only option to make the numbers work.  End of story. And we are still Title IX compliant and hiring the consultant is one of the things UND did right IMHO  

 

 

[UND1983]

Just now, HockeyMom said:

Too bad they didn't let the program know before/when they told the WCHA.

You serious?  So tell your conference last.  Gotcha.  

I am willing to bet they began conversations weeks ago with the WCHA to let them know this is a possibility.  

[UND-FB-FAN]

17 minutes ago, Old Time Hockey said:

 

 

By the way, we are a hockey school.  

With no women's hockey? 

HA! Doesn't seem that way. The University of North Dakota is a public research university that happens to be the State of North Dakota's flagship university. It is not a "hockey school", or whatever ignorant-labeling you can come up with.

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

The morning after. Kinda like a bad hangover. The leaks ahead of time are hard to contain. There will be fans that resist the cut of WH and Swimming & Diving, and eventually MG. Sad time for UND and a lot of negative press comes from all of this. 

This was a fiscal decision and something had to be done. They cut more than they had to, but I'd think they did it to make the rest of the department stronger, I give them credit for that. I support the decision. We move on.

The rest of the U is making cuts. As is the rest of the state that receives money for the state. This will hurt even more.

 

[Maddogg1971]

I just love how the media and Idalski say they produce Olympians. In fact, Idalski has over-emphasized the Olympians that the program has produced......more so than the goal of winning a national title. Other than the Lamaroux's, (oh and by the way I am so sick of hearing what these two have to say) the European Olympians that we constantly bring in don't do didly-squat when they get here. It's about winning national titles, and they didn't, so Idalski has to take some blame in this %@*-show in the fact that he did not put a winning product together in terms of national titles.

[UND1983]

Jocelyn just stated on KFGO that North Dakota should use the rainy day fund to save women's hockey.  

The stuff coming out of her mouth is so delusional.  

[SiouxBoys]

6 minutes ago, Maddogg1971 said:

I just love how the media and Idalski say they produce Olympians. In fact, Idalski has over-emphasized the Olympians that the program has produced......more so than the goal of winning a national title. Other than the Lamaroux's, (oh and by the way I am so sick of hearing what these two have to say) the European Olympians that we constantly bring in don't do didly-squat when they get here. It's about winning national titles, and they didn't, so Idalski has to take some blame in this %@*-show in the fact that he did not put a winning product together in terms of national titles.

If the twins moved away and never came back, you wouldn't find me complaining.

[ChrisUND1]

2 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

Jocelyn just stated on KFGO that North Dakota should use the rainy day fund to save women's hockey.  

The stuff coming out of her mouth is so delusional.  

I wonder what the women and men who lost or will lose their jobs in academic areas at UND think about that...

[Walsh Hall]

22 minutes ago, ChrisUND1 said:

Hindsight.  

You tell one person, they leak it on Twitter.  You literally can't win.  

The WCHA was told, Todd Milewski found out and leaked it.  It's just how it is these days.

I agree, word spreads instantaneously.  There is no way to handle the notice issue without getting blasted by someone.  I think they attempted to handle that in the proper manner, but word leaked.  A tough situation for everyone involved.

[Siouxperfan7]

5 minutes ago, Maddogg1971 said:

I just love how the media and Idalski say they produce Olympians. In fact, Idalski has over-emphasized the Olympians that the program has produced......more so than the goal of winning a national title. Other than the Lamaroux's, (oh and by the way I am so sick of hearing what these two have to say) the European Olympians that we constantly bring in don't do didly-squat when they get here. It's about winning national titles, and they didn't, so Idalski has to take some blame in this %@*-show in the fact that he did not put a winning product together in terms of national titles.

All these Olympians, but yet UND womens hockey has 2 playoff appearances and lost both of them in its 15 year history. (10 years under Idalski).  Idalski definitely didn't get it done with all the Olympic talent he had over the years. 

[The Sicatoka]

Faison on with Heitkamp on 790 KFGO at 9:30. Yes, seven minutes from now.

And KFGO.com. 

[The Sicatoka]

18 minutes ago, HockeyMom said:

Too bad they didn't let the program know before/when they told the WCHA.

Too bad the WCHA leaked when they were surely told in confidence. 

[Yote 53]

7 hours ago, cberkas said:

Justin Emerson when defending his I want to say Masters thesis at Arizona State (it was on ASU getting a hockey team). He said only 3 schools make money, they are all out East and not big schools.

GPL put out the numbers when they went to the B1G and Minnesota lost $1 million in revenue, looks like it went back up.

Its hard to cut a sport that had a arena specifically built for them.

For Minnesota Women's Hockey, it is hard to cut a sport, and would be a public relations disaster, when the AD is raking in $50 million+ a year from BIG TV money alone.  The women's program could lose $5 million a year and they would be untouchable in the State of Hockey.

[cberkas]

4 minutes ago, Yote 53 said:

For Minnesota Women's Hockey, it is hard to cut a sport, and would be a public relations disaster, when the AD is raking in $50 million+ a year from BIG TV money alone.  The women's program could lose $5 million a year and they would be untouchable in the State of Hockey.

That's most likely true, but there were people saying it was untouchable here too.

I could see this being the start of schools cutting women's hockey.

[cberkas]

18 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

Jocelyn just stated on KFGO that North Dakota should use the rainy day fund to save women's hockey.  

The stuff coming out of her mouth is so delusional.  

She should donate some of her new professional contract to help save the program.

[The Sicatoka]

Shameless stolen from an email from a friend: 

Quote

With all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over the loss of UND women's hockey and the problems with the USA Hockey women's hockey program, here's the question nobody seems to be asking: why don't women support women's athletic teams? Because I'm pretty sure women make up at least half the population and wield a huge amount of financial power. 

Who is stopping women from attending UND women's hockey games? What is stopping women from donating to the program? Or is it sexist to admit that women's interest in women's sports isn't nearly as great as men's interest in men's sports?

The answer seems to be that men are supposed to financially support a sport they don't play, a sport in which they have no interest -- unless their daughter happens to be an aspiring hockey player. 

 

[UND1983]

Faison just stated this:  UND Women's Hockey budget was 2 million dollars.

[Old Time Hockey]

I define Championship level programs as those that have a legitimate chance at winning a national championship.  Not winning a Slummit League or a Big Sky league.

Does Oregon have a legitimate chance at winning a football championship?  Yep

Does Gonzaga have a legitimate chance at winning a basketball championship?  Yep

Does UND honestly have a chance in any sport aside from hockey?  Except for the football long shot, none come close!

If someone from outside the area asks you about the UND basketball team, and you reply that we are a championship level program because we won the big sky, you get laughed out of the bar.

Its not the reason I am disappointed the WH program was cut, but it was the only other sport aside from MH that had a legitimate chance at a national championship.  What really bothers me is that it impacts girls hockey into the youth level.  Girls hockey is still a relatively new sport.  When UND cut the program, it was kind of a slap in the face to all girls that play hockey in the area.  While very, very few girls would actually would play for UND, the dream and role models were there for the local kids.

What I still don't understand is how Bemidji, St Cloud, and Duluth can make it work, but we can't?

The softball team travels much more.  Do they have that many less scholarships?  Are they coaches paid much less?  

Could the WH program made cuts to get them in a better position?

[UND1983]

2 minutes ago, Old Time Hockey said:

I define Championship level programs as those that have a legitimate chance at winning a national championship.  Not winning a Slummit League or a Big Sky league.

Does Oregon have a legitimate chance at winning a football championship?  Yep

Does Gonzaga have a legitimate chance at winning a basketball championship?  Yep

Does UND honestly have a chance in any sport aside from hockey?  Except for the football long shot, none come close!

If someone from outside the area asks you about the UND basketball team, and you reply that we are a championship level program because we won the big sky, you get laughed out of the bar.

Its not the reason I am disappointed the WH program was cut, but it was the only other sport aside from MH that had a legitimate chance at a national championship.  What really bothers me is that it impacts girls hockey into the youth level.  Girls hockey is still a relatively new sport.  When UND cut the program, it was kind of a slap in the face to all girls that play hockey in the area.  While very, very few girls would actually would play for UND, the dream and role models were there for the local kids.

What I still don't understand is how Bemidji, St Cloud, and Duluth can make it work, but we can't?

The softball team travels much more.  Do they have that many less scholarships?  Are they coaches paid much less?  

Could the WH program made cuts to get them in a better position?

That's a 2 million dollar championship that they might win every 10 years.  So 20 million dollars for one championship with a chance for maybe 100K in revenue.  Maybe.  

What is the budget for those D2 schools?

[The Sicatoka]

1 minute ago, Old Time Hockey said:

While very, very few girls would actually would play for UND, the dream and role models were there for the local kids.

What I still don't understand is how Bemidji, St Cloud, and Duluth can make it work, but we can't?

The softball team travels much more.  Do they have that many less scholarships?  Are they coaches paid much less?  

Could the WH program made cuts to get them in a better position?

True.

They are Division II in their other sports and have far less scholarship and travel expenses. 

Softball has less than 1/2 of the scholarships of WIH. And the SB coaches are paid less. 

The WIH budget was $2 million. All red ink. And no titles. For 25 athletes. 

[HawksHoops]

3 minutes ago, Old Time Hockey said:

I define Championship level programs as those that have a legitimate chance at winning a national championship.  Not winning a Slummit League or a Big Sky league.

Does Oregon have a legitimate chance at winning a football championship?  Yep

Does Gonzaga have a legitimate chance at winning a basketball championship?  Yep

Does UND honestly have a chance in any sport aside from hockey?  Except for the football long shot, none come close!

If someone from outside the area asks you about the UND basketball team, and you reply that we are a championship level program because we won the big sky, you get laughed out of the bar.

Its not the reason I am disappointed the WH program was cut, but it was the only other sport aside from MH that had a legitimate chance at a national championship.  What really bothers me is that it impacts girls hockey into the youth level.  Girls hockey is still a relatively new sport.  When UND cut the program, it was kind of a slap in the face to all girls that play hockey in the area.  While very, very few girls would actually would play for UND, the dream and role models were there for the local kids.

What I still don't understand is how Bemidji, St Cloud, and Duluth can make it work, but we can't?

The softball team travels much more.  Do they have that many less scholarships?  Are they coaches paid much less?  

Could the WH program made cuts to get them in a better position?

Not if you are only interested in competing for National Championships.

[UNDBIZ]

1 minute ago, The Sicatoka said:

True.

They are Division II in their other sports and have far less scholarship and travel expenses. 

Softball has less than 1/2 of the scholarships of WIH. And the SB coaches are paid less. 

The WIH budget was $2 million. All red ink. And no titles. For 25 athletes. 

So I've been underestimating it.  $80,000.... Yes, EIGHTY THOUSAND DOLLARS.... per WIH player per year.

[Teeder11]

3 minutes ago, Old Time Hockey said:

I define Championship level programs as those that have a legitimate chance at winning a national championship.  Not winning a Slummit League or a Big Sky league.

Does Oregon have a legitimate chance at winning a football championship?  Yep

Does Gonzaga have a legitimate chance at winning a basketball championship?  Yep

Does UND honestly have a chance in any sport aside from hockey?  Except for the football long shot, none come close!

If someone from outside the area asks you about the UND basketball team, and you reply that we are a championship level program because we won the big sky, you get laughed out of the bar.

Its not the reason I am disappointed the WH program was cut, but it was the only other sport aside from MH that had a legitimate chance at a national championship.  What really bothers me is that it impacts girls hockey into the youth level.  Girls hockey is still a relatively new sport.  When UND cut the program, it was kind of a slap in the face to all girls that play hockey in the area.  While very, very few girls would actually would play for UND, the dream and role models were there for the local kids.

What I still don't understand is how Bemidji, St Cloud, and Duluth can make it work, but we can't?

The softball team travels much more.  Do they have that many less scholarships?  Are they coaches paid much less?  

Could the WH program made cuts to get them in a better position?

It wasn't publicized well but St. Cloud tried to do the same thing as UND with WH a few years ago but got slapped back with the threat of a Title IX lawsuit. They blinked and have since kept it despite very much not wanting to keep it.  This is very much UND wants to avoid.

[Yote 53]

7 minutes ago, cberkas said:

That's most likely true, but there were people saying it was untouchable here too.

I could see this being the start of schools cutting women's hockey.

I don't know why people would say that.  From the outside looking in, which I am on the outside so not emotionally invested in this, it was obvious this was going to be the course of action.  The difference between UND and Minnesota is the percentage of the budget.  The financial shortfalls are similar but UND has far less money to work with than MN.

It's like in your own household budget.  A $700 a month car payment is hefty, especially if you are only bringing in $3,000 per month.  You can swing it but it's a burden.  Now if you are bring in $15,000/month it is far easier to manage because you have more discretionary income.