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Biggest drawback for each remaining name (final 15)


jimdahl

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There were really good names that were thrown out for WAY less then the name "North Dakota".  Of all the names suggested, "North Dakota" has to be the most controversial.  Yet it still remains.

 

Do you realize how ridiculous it is that the name of the state is even deemed controversial though. I understand people wanting a new nickname, it totally makes sense to me. What doesn't make sense are some of the arguments people are throwing out there to eliminate the use of just North Dakota.

 

People don't have to like North Dakota, just like I don't like Sun Dogs, but I'd rather hear everyone state an opinion that I disagree with, over rambling on their BS arguments and trying to sounds like they are an NCAA attorney. At least I can respect an honest opinion.

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As someone mentioned above, let's call a do over.  For the life of me, can you take a committee seriously that recently included Bison Slayers, Drillers and Wholly Mammoths in the FINAL 63?  I mean really!!  Think about that.  Someone(s) held up their hand and said "Bison Slayers" or 'Wholly Mammoths" should move forward and be discussed again?  I can't lower my head any further in shame. 

I know talk about professionalism.  My father and I were discussing that same topic last weekend.

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Old Name: Fighting Sioux

New Name: North Dakota

 

I'm not saying it is THE option, but it is my preference. I think everyone who is anti-no nickname (which I understand) is trying to use a single ambiguous word in the legal agreement to support their own opion. A single ambiguous word, which they have no real clarity on that would deter the use of University of North Dakota. I have to believe that the committee and the University of North Dakota (yes that is the name of the school) has more insight on the subject than the posters on this message board. If they say it is still in play, then they probably know something that you don't.

 

Now, that doesn't mean we won't have another issues a few years down the road in some people wanting a nickname. BUT I am sick of people using the same tired argument, for which they have no real backup, to support their opinoion. Just say your opinion is to adopt a new nickname, and leave it at that..

nope, I just think it's monumentally stupid to not have a nickname and mascot.

Carry on.

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This was addressed in 2013: Dacotah Legacy Collection

 

 

Not sure how fans shouting "Fighting Sioux" or wearing old clothing helps UND in regards to this.

You must create commerce with the logo and nickname within three years.  Try finding this "collection", and prove that UND is making money off of the Fighting Sioux name and the Ben Brien logo.  Someone can easily create something with the logo and a derogatory saying regarding the NCAA on it and the university would have to go after them according to the NCAA.  It is baffling to me how their is a lack of understanding regarding this section and how crazy it is that it was included in this way.  I agree it will be very difficult to manage, but that is why I bring it up, and does not mean that I am wrong.

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As someone mentioned above, let's call a do over.  For the life of me, can you take a committee seriously that recently included Bison Slayers, Drillers and Wholly Mammoths in the FINAL 63?  I mean really!!  Think about that.  Someone(s) held up their hand and said "Bison Slayers" or 'Wholly Mammoths" should move forward and be discussed again?  I can't lower my head any further in shame. 

 

Such a true statement. I actually though that with some of who they included on this committee, this situation might be handled well. But I have definitely lost some respect for a few of these individuals. The whole process could not have been handled worse.

 

Nokota- Unique Name/Holds ties to North Dakota (Not on the list)

Spirit/Force/Pride/Etc - (on the list) WTF?

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I don't see why so many people have such a problem with Roughriders being UND's nickname because RRHS has it as one too. Talk to a random person in Bismarck or Dickinson or Williston or Minot or heck even Fargo and there is a decent chance they would have no idea that Red River is the Roughriders. That is within the state. Absolutely no one anywhere outside of North Dakota would know that Red River is the Roughriders or even that Red River is a high school in Grand Forks. I just think that RRHS is completely irrelevant to the discussion about UND's nickname.

Guy next to me at work (from norther MN) knew of Red River and that they were the Rough Riders.  To say someone from Bismarck (that pays attention to sports) does not know RR is the rough riders is a stretch.

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nope, I just think it's monumentally stupid to not have a nickname and mascot.

Carry on.

 

Which is a totally legit opinion. I'm not arguing that at all. If you think its stupid to have no-name it is understandable and I can at least respect that view. It is the people arguing that North Dakota is not actually an option, because they want to play lawyer.

 

If you have an opinion, state it (as you have done), but don't try to place legal loophole just to shut down the other opinions that you don't care for. That was my whole point.

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I think the main reason we shouldn't be North Dakota has been said a couple of times......we'll be doing this whole thing over in 5-10 years and that could've been 5-10 of branding with a new name already. Legal arguments aside that could be an issue.

Having said that I think smarter heads would prevail in a vote anyways and we won't end up with just ND. For example the ss poll Roughriders has more votes than ND. In the herald poll ND leads by quite a bit but what happens when there are only 2-3 names to choose from. My guess is everyone that voted for something other than just ND wants a new name. So you'd have North Dakota with 24% of the vote and the rest split between Roguhriders and Northstars. If it's just North Dakota and Roughriders riders wins easy. Now if you have 4-5 in the final that might be a different story but I think if Roughriders and North Dakota are the only 2 or 2 of 3 RIders will win.

Realize those are small samples of people but I think most people are honestly ready to move forward with a new name.

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You must create commerce with the logo and nickname within three years.  Try finding this "collection", and prove that UND is making money off of the Fighting Sioux name and the Ben Brien logo.  Someone can easily create something with the logo and a derogatory saying regarding the NCAA on it and the university would have to go after them according to the NCAA.  It is baffling to me how their is a lack of understanding regarding this section and how crazy it is that it was included in this way.  I agree it will be very difficult to manage, but that is why I bring it up, and does not mean that I am wrong.

 

And if they continue to make limited edition shirts or apparel, they are doing that.  They released 50 at Scheels and 50 at the Sioux Shop, sold them and made money.  Not sure how that is hard to prove?  They will have to use all the previous marks in order to stay in compliance, not just the Brien logo.  It was included for the reasons you stated, so that it didn't fall into the public domain and it remained under control.  I'd love to print up some apparel with some of the logos from way back and sell them for a nice profit.  Don't see that happening (legally) in the future.  I guess other than some sort of hypocrisy (which is synonymous with the NCAA), I didn't see it as all that strange.  The NCAA deemed allowing very limited runs of apparel to be better than it being freely available for public use.

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ok so minus the controversial University of North Dakota, we are really left with a copy "realistic" options.

 

Roughriders

Cavalry

NoDaks

 

Thoughts on these?

 

IF North Dakota is not on the final list, I would actually place a vote for any of those. The rest of the names on that list are all a joke, and my biggest fear is ending up with Spirit, Pride and Sundogs.

 

Also, have they made any changes to the original voting process? Will it only be those with a vested interest, or is this still going to be open everyone in the world?

 

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I don't see why so many people have such a problem with Roughriders being UND's nickname because RRHS has it as one too. Talk to a random person in Bismarck or Dickinson or Williston or Minot or heck even Fargo and there is a decent chance they would have no idea that Red River is the Roughriders. That is within the state. Absolutely no one anywhere outside of North Dakota would know that Red River is the Roughriders or even that Red River is a high school in Grand Forks. I just think that RRHS is completely irrelevant to the discussion about UND's nickname.

Just once let's not be viewed ascopying or following.    We seem to have the reputation right now and it's time to get out from under it.  RR had the Roughriders name and there's no reason for us to down that road.   Besides, I really don't think Roughriders is really that great a name,  although it's probably better than Blaze.

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"The NCAA objects to institutions using racial/ethnic/national origin references in their intercollegiate athletics programs," said NCAA President Myles Brand. 

 

Source: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/PressArchive/2005/Announcements/NCAA%2BExecutive%2BCommittee%2BIssues%2BGuidelines%2Bfor%2BUse%2Bof%2BNative%2BAmerican%2BMascots%2Bat%2BChampionship%2BEvents.html

 

So, having a tribal name in school name (University of North Dakota) isn't the NCAA's issue. That's beyond their control. 

 

Having a tribal name in "references in their intercollegiate athletics programs" (see: nicknames and mascots for athletics) is the National Collegiate Athletics Association's issue and focal point, and in their realm of (micromanaging) control. 

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And if they continue to make limited edition shirts or apparel, they are doing that.  They released 50 at Scheels and 50 at the Sioux Shop, sold them and made money.  Not sure how that is hard to prove?  They will have to use all the previous marks in order to stay in compliance, not just the Brien logo.  It was included for the reasons you stated, so that it didn't fall into the public domain and it remained under control.  I'd love to print up some apparel with some of the logos from way back and sell them for a nice profit.  Don't see that happening (legally) in the future.  I guess other than some sort of hypocrisy (which is synonymous with the NCAA), I didn't see it as all that strange.  The NCAA deemed allowing very limited runs of apparel to be better than it being freely available for public use.

You are correct, other than the word "limited".  That would be very troublesome to any patent attorney fighting for folks that are against the university.  I have numerous patents and have helped in getting trademarked names.  I would ask that you read up on the trademark definitions, and it does go beyond a "limited" edition of a few items.  That would be very hard to defend if they had to, and my argument was that according to the agreement that is more worrisome than the wording of "replacement" for the name.  Do you think it was through the NCAA's kind heart that they allowed the logos in the Ralph to stay?  They knew of this wording and it gives a way for the university to help protect these trademarks through historical and very open display, which is one point of a trademarked item.  It had nothing to do with their kindness.  My point is that this section was always going to be a conundrum both the school and the NCAA were going to have to walk a fine line with.

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Hey the ncaa sucks & can go to he!! & they want Roughriders so drop that crazy idea

I have no problem with Roughriders, but if it is Cavalry, I wouldn't mind putting that name and the connotation of it to the people of the NCAA and other my little pony strawberry shortcake lovers. 

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I hope UND's law school re-opens soon. A lot of the armchair lawyers in this thread need a refresher course.

Public domain is a copyright concept that has little to nothing to do with trademarks in this context. The copyrighted Sioux logo isn't going to enter the public domain for a long time.

Static displays at the Ralph do not constitute a use in commerce that would preserve trademark rights.

The use in commerce threshold is quite low, and limited editions certainly do qualify. See, for example, registered trademarks for Ferrari, Lamborghini, and McLaren.

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So other schools are going to find something nasty to say about our new nickname - what's new? Bi-son, EIEIEIO, Old McDonald had a farm. Hail the bison hail the bison with their tails up in the air....USC Trojans, West Virginia Mountineers - what school doesn't have their nickname made fun of? 

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I know there's been a lot of discussion, pro and con, in the other nickname threads, but I thought it would be interesting to gather a list of drawbacks for each potential name in one place. Though every name has some drawbacks that lead some people not to like it, it seems some are much a bigger deal than others (e.g. I don't think Red River High using RoughRiders is nearly as big a deal as North Stars being associated with Minnesota).

 

It would be great if we could keep the discussion in this thread to a minimum (I'm hoping to just gather a list of the negatives), and I suppose we have to let profanity slide a bit.

 

What's the biggest negative you can think of about the name(s) you don't like? 

 

Blaze

Cavalry

Explorers

Fighting Green

Fighting Hawks

Force

Green Hawks

Nodaks

North Dakota

North Stars

Pride

Roughriders

Spirit

Sundogs

Thunderhawks

Ok, i'll give the negatives idea a try....

 

Blaze-                UND Blaze?  Blaze of what?  what is a blaze?  just dumb...

Cavalry            -     no negatives here- there were Cavalry in ND, so it is historically relevant. 

Explorers         -  not a bad choice given the crappy list- but not real catchy.  Explorers Yeah Yeah!  Yeah Explorers Explorers!   ????

Fighting Green-  not a thing is it's biggest negative.  can't believe it made the list

Fighting Hawks- not the worst since there's so few good ones.  But i'm not a fan of all these dumb Big Bird type mascots.

Force                -what is this, Star Wars?

Green Hawks   - again not a fan of Big Bird mascots

Nodaks            - nothing wrong with this choice.  it's been used before.

North Dakota  - Perfect.  As the saying goes, if you can't say something that isn't lame, don't say anything at all.

North Stars     - Maybe we could hire Oliver North to be the P.A. announcer while we're at it.

Pride               - When's the parade?

Roughriders   - not historically accurate as T.R.'s Roughriders were not from ND.  But historical significance left this exercise 63 names ago. So not the worst

Spirit              - brought to you by Happy Harry's

Sundogs         -the mamby pamby rainbow connotation does not evoke any sense of power or competitiveness.

Thunderhawks-  How many Ornithologists are on this committee anyway?

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