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cberkas

College Hockey Expansion

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The club team at UMaryland-Baltimore County (UMBC) is funded two thirds by the school.  Didn't know that was possible.  UMBC is the southernmost America East school, which has a lot of Hockey schools.  Imagine the LIU wants AEC as its future conference, and new member NJIT, which was added as a travel partner for UMBC, might want hockey too.  The NEC is mostly small but private schools and LIU isnt small.

https://www.ncsasports.org/athletic-scholarships/mens-ice-hockey/maryland/university-of-maryland--baltimore-county

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St. Thomas approved for D1. Women's team joins the WCHA for the 2021-22 season, men's team still waiting on a conference decision. 

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4 hours ago, cberkas said:

St. Thomas approved for D1. Women's team joins the WCHA for the 2021-22 season, men's team still waiting on a conference decision. 

Lucia said they are welcome in the CCHA. Pretty much a done deal at that point. Arena is the big question. They could possibly use Tria for games and one of the others in the area for practice.

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4 hours ago, cberkas said:

St. Thomas approved for D1. Women's team joins the WCHA for the 2021-22 season, men's team still waiting on a conference decision. 

So, this makes a very interesting situation for the conferences. As it currently stands, the only option that makes sense for St Thomas going into a conference is the CCHA with the caveat that that could change if they figure out a new arena. The NCHC has proven that they are not going to admit someone (no matter their profile) without a legit arena. That realistically leaves the CCHA as the only option other than going independent.

My bigger question, though, applies to what does the NCHC want. I see a lot of options. To me it comes down to 3 schools, ASU, St Thomas and Mankato. I know a lot of people roll their eyes at Mankato being included, but I have been told that all signs were pointing toward Kato being in when they applied and they were shocked it didn't happen. So, grant me that the schools (not fans) wanted Mankato. If that's the case, does the conference pursue Mankato and St. Thomas? Do they pursue St. Thomas and ASU? Or do they stick with ASU and Mankato? Frankly, I'm not interested in what people want. I'm more interested in what the schools want from an administrative standpoint.

Of course, there is one other possibility. Do the conferences take a step back and look at things through a new lens in a post-covid world? Do the conferences look at things from a more geographical standpoint? I know that the "trading teams" aspect has been a non-starter for a multitude of reasons, chief among them being the $1 million buyout. Does all of that change knowing the financial pressure that athletic departments are under now? Do the conferences get together and say that for the good of everyone, we need to restructure and not have any penalties for schools? Normally, I throw out the "good of college hockey" argument as I don't think any school actually worries about that any longer. In this case, I think all or most. schools are financially worried, so they are actually concerned about themselves and not everyone else. Would WMU and Miami be interested in that? Would the NCHC? 

I certainly don't have any idea on what administrators are thinking. I have to believe that they are all at least thinking about this. If not, they really aren't doing their job. Thoughts?

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54 minutes ago, bale31 said:

So, this makes a very interesting situation for the conferences. As it currently stands, the only option that makes sense for St Thomas going into a conference is the CCHA with the caveat that that could change if they figure out a new arena. The NCHC has proven that they are not going to admit someone (no matter their profile) without a legit arena. That realistically leaves the CCHA as the only option other than going independent.

My bigger question, though, applies to what does the NCHC want. I see a lot of options. To me it comes down to 3 schools, ASU, St Thomas and Mankato. I know a lot of people roll their eyes at Mankato being included, but I have been told that all signs were pointing toward Kato being in when they applied and they were shocked it didn't happen. So, grant me that the schools (not fans) wanted Mankato. If that's the case, does the conference pursue Mankato and St. Thomas? Do they pursue St. Thomas and ASU? Or do they stick with ASU and Mankato? Frankly, I'm not interested in what people want. I'm more interested in what the schools want from an administrative standpoint.

Of course, there is one other possibility. Do the conferences take a step back and look at things through a new lens in a post-covid world? Do the conferences look at things from a more geographical standpoint? I know that the "trading teams" aspect has been a non-starter for a multitude of reasons, chief among them being the $1 million buyout. Does all of that change knowing the financial pressure that athletic departments are under now? Do the conferences get together and say that for the good of everyone, we need to restructure and not have any penalties for schools? Normally, I throw out the "good of college hockey" argument as I don't think any school actually worries about that any longer. In this case, I think all or most. schools are financially worried, so they are actually concerned about themselves and not everyone else. Would WMU and Miami be interested in that? Would the NCHC? 

I certainly don't have any idea on what administrators are thinking. I have to believe that they are all at least thinking about this. If not, they really aren't doing their job. Thoughts?

Good comments.

Miami and W Michgan out and Mankato and Bemidji in (both good hockey programs, also 20 game winners last year).
Maybe St Thomas next time.
Let teams move without the league penalties this time.
Tough to get everyone to agree, but maybe this time around, it's do-able. 

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58 minutes ago, bale31 said:

So, this makes a very interesting situation for the conferences. As it currently stands, the only option that makes sense for St Thomas going into a conference is the CCHA with the caveat that that could change if they figure out a new arena. The NCHC has proven that they are not going to admit someone (no matter their profile) without a legit arena. That realistically leaves the CCHA as the only option other than going independent.

My bigger question, though, applies to what does the NCHC want. I see a lot of options. To me it comes down to 3 schools, ASU, St Thomas and Mankato. I know a lot of people roll their eyes at Mankato being included, but I have been told that all signs were pointing toward Kato being in when they applied and they were shocked it didn't happen. So, grant me that the schools (not fans) wanted Mankato. If that's the case, does the conference pursue Mankato and St. Thomas? Do they pursue St. Thomas and ASU? Or do they stick with ASU and Mankato? Frankly, I'm not interested in what people want. I'm more interested in what the schools want from an administrative standpoint.

Of course, there is one other possibility. Do the conferences take a step back and look at things through a new lens in a post-covid world? Do the conferences look at things from a more geographical standpoint? I know that the "trading teams" aspect has been a non-starter for a multitude of reasons, chief among them being the $1 million buyout. Does all of that change knowing the financial pressure that athletic departments are under now? Do the conferences get together and say that for the good of everyone, we need to restructure and not have any penalties for schools? Normally, I throw out the "good of college hockey" argument as I don't think any school actually worries about that any longer. In this case, I think all or most. schools are financially worried, so they are actually concerned about themselves and not everyone else. Would WMU and Miami be interested in that? Would the NCHC? 

I certainly don't have any idea on what administrators are thinking. I have to believe that they are all at least thinking about this. If not, they really aren't doing their job. Thoughts?

6 minutes ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

Good comments.

Miami and W Michgan out and Mankato and Bemidji in (both good hockey programs, also 20 game winners last year).
Maybe St Thomas next time.
Let teams move without the league penalties this time.
Tough to get everyone to agree, but maybe this time around, it's do-able. 

Anyone know DU's opinion on this?  Curious more than anything.

I think if this happened, it would really help Bemidji, and The gophers would be the odd man out with all the MN schools in one conference, which would make recruiting MN kids more difficult for him.  If St. Thomas, Mankato, and Bemidji all joined and the Mac teams left, the conference tourney would be pretty damn Amazing again, and the Gophs would be missing out.

That said, change like that scares me with how well the NCHC is currently doing.  Would it affect the CBS Sports Network deal without the MAC teams?

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27 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

Anyone know DU's opinion on this?  Curious more than anything.

I think if this happened, it would really help Bemidji, and The gophers would be the odd man out with all the MN schools in one conference, which would make recruiting MN kids more difficult for him.  If St. Thomas, Mankato, and Bemidji all joined and the Mac teams left, the conference tourney would be pretty damn Amazing again, and the Gophs would be missing out.

That said, change like that scares me with how well the NCHC is currently doing.  Would it affect the CBS Sports Network deal without the MAC teams?

I think DU could see the positives here.

4 teams in Minnesota with 4 teams to the west. Potentially St. Thomas plus another a little later.
Hockey would only grow in the imediate region. Mankato and Bemidji fan base should grow, could even help St. Cloud fan base.

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34 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

 

Anyone know DU's opinion on this?  Curious more than anything.

I think if this happened, it would really help Bemidji, and The gophers would be the odd man out with all the MN schools in one conference, which would make recruiting MN kids more difficult for him.  If St. Thomas, Mankato, and Bemidji all joined and the Mac teams left, the conference tourney would be pretty damn Amazing again, and the Gophs would be missing out.

That said, change like that scares me with how well the NCHC is currently doing.  Would it affect the CBS Sports Network deal without the MAC teams?

Realistically, that doesn't work though. NCHC wants an even number of teams. From my understanding, that's what kept Kato out a couple of years ago. ASU wasn't ready so they told MSU that it wasn't going to happen since it would put the conference at an odd number.

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8 minutes ago, bale31 said:

Realistically, that doesn't work though. NCHC wants an even number of teams. From my understanding, that's what kept Kato out a couple of years ago. ASU wasn't ready so they told MSU that it wasn't going to happen since it would put the conference at an odd number.

The hard part would be convincing MAC teams to part, or else go to 10 or 12 teams.

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Just now, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

The hard part would be convincing MAC teams to part, or else go to 10 or 12 teams.

Not sure that would be the case if the buyout is waived.  Aren't there already rumors that Miami wants out, as is?   I like the status quo, though, and the optics of having the Mac teams in our conference.

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The NCHC should not be looking to add any teams unless they have a team or teams drop out.  8 is the Max number that should be in the conference.  Still don't like that we only host 6 of the 7 teams each year and only go to 6 of the 7 teams each year.  Unbalanced schedules suck.  

No interest what so ever in St Thomas.  Accomplish something at D1 and get back to me.

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The CCHA makes more sense, but theoretically couldn't St Thomas and LIU save the WCHA if they both joined?

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20 minutes ago, Rebel_Sioux said:

The CCHA makes more sense, but theoretically couldn't St Thomas and LIU save the WCHA if they both joined?

Frankly, that's a non-starter. St Thomas makes sense for the CCHA schools, but LIU expands the footprint even more for a group of schools that is scrambling to save money. I'm not trying to start an argument on the merits of anything, but the formation of the Big 10 and subsequently the NCHC destablized college hockey in the west.

I don't like saying this, but the WCHA isn't worth saving at this point and it doesn't have anything to do with the competitiveness. Think about it from the perspective of a Mankato or a Bemidji. The 3 teams that are left out legitimately don't know if they are going to exist. It's not even about the direction of the conference like it was with the NCHC, they legitimately may not exist. All three of those programs have had conversations about scrapping their programs in a single calendar year. When you look at what that means for each of the 7 other teams, they could be on the hook for trying to schedule 12 more games in a season (which isn't going to happen) and with the Alaska schools it was less than 2 months before the season started. That's financially catastrophic.

I get the reasons the NCHC was started in the first place. Knowing what we know now, do those reasons stay the same? Has the situation changed enough to warrant a change in the way that the schools are thinking? I'm not sure. Maybe it hasn't, but sure does seem like a good time to re-evaluate.

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Western Michigan has stated they are happy and want to be in the NCHC, where Miami's coach has stated he didn't want Miami in the NCHC before he took the BGSU job.

At some point the NCHC will expand, but will take teams that benefit the conference. St. Thomas looks good because they are in the twin cities and that could bring more people to the Xcel. 

10 to 12 teams is about the right size of the conference. With that many teams the NCHC could be getting 5 to 6 teams in the NCAA tournament each season which is good for the conference. 

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It's all about money.  St Thomas will win if they get a Twin Cities crowd.  Pretty straigth forward. 

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16 hours ago, cberkas said:

Western Michigan has stated they are happy and want to be in the NCHC, where Miami's coach has stated he didn't want Miami in the NCHC before he took the BGSU job.

At some point the NCHC will expand, but will take teams that benefit the conference. St. Thomas looks good because they are in the twin cities and that could bring more people to the Xcel. 

10 to 12 teams is about the right size of the conference. With that many teams the NCHC could be getting 5 to 6 teams in the NCAA tournament each season which is good for the conference. 

At one point I know Miami and WMU were lobbying for Bowling Green to be added along with either ASU or Mankato.

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58 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

It's all about money.  St Thomas will win if they get a Twin Cities crowd.  Pretty straigth forward. 

Can St.John's be far behind?  I don't think their alumni will stand for this.   

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On 7/16/2020 at 11:21 AM, andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!! said:

The NCHC was created in part to get away from some of the small schools and the direction that those schools wanted to take the WCHA once UM and UW left. 

The phrase like-minded what thrown out a lot when the NCHC was formed. 

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3 hours ago, keikla said:

Per Brad, St Thomas to CCHA for men's hockey. 

 

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