SiouxVolley Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 Was it the MVC or MVFC that was trying to join with the WAC? Yes, please show us some proof of that, cause it sounds pretty far fetched. Where to start? Most of the MVFC can't afford FBS football The MVC wouldn't ok addl members for non football Patty is not the MVC commissioner The MVFC wouldn't be allowed to merge 10 to FBS without the NCAA and the P5 getting involved. There is a lot wrong with you theory, and I haven't see. Any proof. Is a commissioners word good enough or are they lying too? Jeff Hurd of the WAC said a midwest FCS conference offered to merge with the WAC and become an FBS conference. Denver and NMSU would have been added for sure but Idaho and later Seattle would have been tossed aside. Around the same time, UNI, Ill St, Ind St, and even Mo St were making noise about FBS. Since midwest and fcs narrow down to the MVC and MVFC, there's not much question who is was referring to. Maybe with NDSU, Youngstown St, and W Kentucky back they could have pieced together an FBS league. Probably the MVC would not have accepted SDSU, USD, and WIU because they could not have afforded it and didn't have stadiums ready. Maybe Oral Roberts was afraid football would tear apart the Slummit, so they got out while the going was good and now the coast is clear they came back. Email Jeff Hurd if you don't believe it. jhurd@wac.org Don't be a bison hind end to him, as you typically are. He's from Minot originally and he answers email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 According to bison and jack fans, the Big Sky can't wait to get rid of UND. But according to the Big Sky's own documents, the Big Sky considers Montana, Montana State, and UND to be the three key schools in the conference. Idaho's own acceptance is dependent on those three still being members, otherwise Idaho can back out of joining at no cost: Upon acceptance of this memoradum the University of Idaho shall immediately deposit 50% of $250,000 entry fee with the Big Sky conference. This entry fee is non-refundable. The only exception shall be, should there be a significant loss of membership by the Big Sky Conference prior to July 1, 2014, the University of Idaho may notify the league of its intention not to join the league and the deposit will be refunded. A significant loss of members would be defined as the loss of any or all of the following institutions from the Big Sky Conference: the University of Montana, Montana State University, or the University or North Dakota. The remaining 50% is due July 1, 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 According to bison and jack fans, the Big Sky can't wait to get rid of UND. But according to the Big Sky's own documents, the Big Sky considers Montana, Montana State, and UND to be the three key schools in the conference. Idaho's own acceptance is dependent on those three still being members, otherwise Idaho can back out of joining at no cost: Don't put facts on here, they don't like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayduke Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 According to bison and jack fans, the Big Sky can't wait to get rid of UND. But according to the Big Sky's own documents, the Big Sky considers Montana, Montana State, and UND to be the three key schools in the conference. Idaho's own acceptance is dependent on those three still being members, otherwise Idaho can back out of joining at no cost: I'd venture to say it's because we are the flagship school in the state of North Dakota. Sam, stay out of jail until mid-March. I have a pool to win! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mg2009 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Bison fans are awfully good at fabricating FBS rules. Where does it say that the SEC, Big Ten, and Pac 12 approved FBS status for Appalachian St and Ga Southern? The playoff system will set aside money for the G5. The P5 doesn't care what the G5 consists of, and would actually prefer more schools because then game guarantees go down. The Big Sky is more capable than most of the Sun Belt. Look at La-Monroe or Ga Southern. Jacksonville St, Sam Houston, and E Kentucky want FBS, and your saying the Big Sky can't! the big sky is more capable than georgia southern? Why do some people seem to take you seriously here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 All we have are the honest facts of what happened. After that it's all opinion and belief. Just looking for someone, anyone, that is an honest person to make an honest statement about the 2005 and the 2009 periods, instead of pretending that UND would have been added in 2005, and NDSU wouldn't have been added in 2009. I guess that person is not you. The facts are . . . UND did not apply for membership in 2005 UND was accepted by the Big Sky in 2009 NDSU/SDSU was not accepted by the Big Sky in 2005 NDSU/SDSU had no desire to join the Big Sky in 2009 USD had offers to both the Big Sky and the Summit/MVFC in 2009, and chose the Summit MVFC Nearly every school that applied to the Big Sky in 2009 was added The Assumptions of any Reasonable person . . . UND/USD would have received a big NO on Big sky membership in 2005, just like NDSU/SDSU received NDSU would have been added, along with UND, in 2009 if NDSU would have had a desire to join the Big Sky Thank you for pointing out facts, and then providing opinion and belief, or, put more simply, proving my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 A significant loss of members would be defined as the loss of any or all of the following institutions from the Big Sky Conference: the University of Montana, Montana State University, or the University or North Dakota. Thought that bore repeating. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mg2009 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 According to bison and jack fans, the Big Sky can't wait to get rid of UND. But according to the Big Sky's own documents, the Big Sky considers Montana, Montana State, and UND to be the three key schools in the conference. Idaho's own acceptance is dependent on those three still being members, otherwise Idaho can back out of joining at no cost: Idaho's demands in their contract really say nothing about the Big Sky's view's on UND's importance. Not that you are wrong, just logically inconsistent. Have you ever once provided evidence for any of your crazy schemes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mg2009 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Thought that bore repeating. I can see them having major qualms about the rest of the big sky, which I wish more here shared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Idaho's demands in their contract really say nothing about the Big Sky's view's on UND's importance. Not that you are wrong, just logically inconsistent. Funny thing is, two sides make a contract. Both Idaho and the BSC signed it. The BSC signed a document stating losing UND would be a significant loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herd Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Thank you for pointing out facts, and then providing opinion and belief, or, put more simply, proving my point. So you agree . . With There is no way that UND gets into the Big Sky in 2005 had they tried NDSU easily would have received a Big Sky invite in 2010 if they had wanted one Good, we can put all the propaganda being uttered to rest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herd Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Funny thing is, two sides make a contract. Both Idaho and the BSC signed it. The BSC signed a document stating losing UND would be a significant loss. I dont dispute that most in the Big Sky probably want UND to stay, and UND is content in the Big Sky. But at some point you look at travel costs, recruiting areas, and conference strengths, and UND is going to be drawn east. Bubba or anyone else is not going to beat UNI, NDSU, ans SDSU for recruits in MN and WI (the area he knows he needs to focus in) playing out west. The Summit will continue to be a top 15 with ORU, and will grow to be on par with the Horizon and MVC. The Sky will always be a 20+. The new SF arena will get 10k+ for the Summit championship in years to come. Thats what UND could be a part of, and its just down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I dont dispute that most in the Big Sky probably want UND to stay, and UND is content in the Big Sky. But at some point you look at travel costs, recruiting areas, and conference strengths, and UND is going to be drawn east. Bubba or anyone else is not going to beat UNI, NDSU, ans SDSU for recruits in MN and WI (the area he knows he needs to focus in) playing out west. The Summit will continue to be a top 15 with ORU, and will grow to be on par with the Horizon and MVC. The Sky will always be a 20+. The new SF arena will get 10k+ for the Summit championship in years to come. Thats what UND could be a part of, and its just down the road. Or UND could win the regular season (which the women are on pace to do) and host the conference tournament. Fans could drive 300 miles to Sioux Falls or drive a few blocks to the Betty. As for recruiting, obviously UND has out recruited NDSU, and SDSU in the past, UND beat UNI in 06 so maybe that class out recruited UNI (tough to say), so saying UND will never out recruit MVFC teams is being ignorant and Bisonesque. When UND is up and NDSU comes down to earth the recruits will come to UND, you can only play the NC card for so long...look at the 90's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 (edited) I dont dispute that most in the Big Sky probably want UND to stay, and UND is content in the Big Sky. But at some point you look at travel costs, recruiting areas, and conference strengths, and UND is going to be drawn east. Bubba or anyone else is not going to beat UNI, NDSU, ans SDSU for recruits in MN and WI (the area he knows he needs to focus in) playing out west. The Summit will continue to be a top 15 with ORU, and will grow to be on par with the Horizon and MVC. The Sky will always be a 20+. The new SF arena will get 10k+ for the Summit championship in years to come. Thats what UND could be a part of, and its just down the road. Actually he came out and said he was surprised that the fact that UND travels out west was a reason some recruits chose UND. Keep in mind many of these high school kids don't even leave their state and that traveling is a perk to them. Sure the cost of traveling during regular season is more, but FU fans always conveniently forget that our non-conference schedule for many sports is now easy to fill and requires very little travel. Edited February 23, 2014 by Smoggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Actually he came out and said he was surprised that the fact that UND travels out west was a reason some recruits chose UND. Keep in mind many of these high school kids don't even leave thire state and that traveling is a perk to them. Sure the cost of traveling during regular season is more, but FU fans always conveniently forget that our non-conference schedule for many sports is now easy to fill and requires very little travel. I love how NDSU tried twice to get into the BSC while at the same time not bringing up travel...until UND joined then travel is an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mg2009 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I love how NDSU tried twice to get into the BSC while at the same time not bringing up travel...until UND joined then travel is an issue. travel was an issue for NDSU. The big sky was only ever on the table because the mvfc was off the table, until wku left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND1983 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Notice you dont hear the old "three time zones is a negative" talking point from the Summit folks anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 The mystery of UMKC gone to the WAC from the Slummit is likely solved. UMKC got wind that the WAC MIGHT merge with the MVC for a new FBS conference, and they were scared that they would be left in a decimated Slummit (NDSU would have been needed for a FBS MVC). UMKC's goal had always been the MVC, so they switched to what they thought would be the winning side (the WAC), and thought they could get in the MVC though the merger. Didn't work out as they hoped. ORU and Oakland both had more reasons to jump ship too. MVC - WAC merger with FBS football Ind St Mo St Ill St UNI S Ill Bradley - no FB Drake - non-schol FB Creighton - no FB Wichita St - could start FB Evansville - no FB NMSU UMKC - no FB Youngstown St - new for FB NDSU - new for FB maybe SDSU - new for FB (were planning 24k seat stadium, reduced to 17 k) The Slummits lack of control football is what caused the Slummit schools to jump ship like a pack of rats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 Notice you dont hear the old "three time zones is a negative" talking point from the Summit folks anymore? ESPN and FoxSports1 can really go to town sponsoring football games, especially late night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 Idaho is contractually obligated to the Sun Belt for football through the 2015-6 season, with a Sun Belt option for two more years (through 2017-18 season), when Idaho must report to the Big Sky as an "FCS" team. Why does an FCS team already have four FBS teams scheduled for 2018-9 and two for 2019-20? That's not typical for an FCS team. Surely the Idaho AD must be delusional. Wyoming would never ever play at an FCS school. http://www.fbschedul...aho-vandals.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 travel was an issue for NDSU. The big sky was only ever on the table because the mvfc was off the table, until wku left. But all I heard on BV was pissing and moaning when UNC got picked over NDSU, I never read about time zones and travel expenses. Then I read they might go to that horrible conference called the Mid-Con. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risky Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 But all I heard on BV was pissing and moaning when UNC got picked over NDSU, I never read about time zones and travel expenses. Then I read they might go to that horrible conference called the Mid-Con. I haven't heard anyone complaining about the Big Sky. There are lot of terrific locations. You get to see the whole western half of the country. Basketball also plays a lot of Saturday afternoon and evening games. Every game in the Big Sky offers television or video broadcast. There is even video on demand. I believe UND is loving it. Bubba said being in the Big Sky was a huge recruiting plus. The Big Sky is nothing but a positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 Idaho pays annual dues to the Sun Belt of $100,000. Critics have said the Sun Belt would lose out monetarily by dividing the G5 pool with another league. But if the other 13 Big Sky teams have to pay in a 100G for 2 years, that's $2.6 M for the Sun Belt. If only 8 move to the Sun Belt for two years, but are charged $250 k annually for the privilege of becoming FBS, thats $4 mill the Sun Belt would pocket, more the compensating it for the loss of G5 revenue. Plus the Sun Belt never encountered an extra FBS league like the MVC, CAA, or WAC Southeast infringing on its territory. The Sun Belt didn't like the MVC FBS because it saw schools like Mo St and NMSU as being potentially theirs. An MVC FBS could have also taken a Sam Houston or Lamar or Texas St, something the Sun Belt did not want. Texas was Sun Belt territory, not MVC. So the Sun Belt offered Idaho and NMSU spots, and in return the WAC quit prostituting itself out to FCS teams and leagues. The WAC FBS status was a very powerful bargaining chip that didn't get used but Idaho played it for all it was worth. The Big Sky doesn't threaten the Sun Belt at all, even in recruiting patterns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 So you agree . . With There is no way that UND gets into the Big Sky in 2005 had they tried NDSU easily would have received a Big Sky invite in 2010 if they had wanted one You've stretched too far again. UND never applied in 2005; hence, UND did not get into the BSC in 2005. That's all that can be said. Beyond that is conjecture. NDSU never applied to the BSC in 2010 so again, we'll never know, and anything more is again conjecture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I dont dispute that most in the Big Sky probably want UND to stay, and UND is content in the Big Sky. But at some point you look at travel costs, recruiting areas, and conference strengths, and UND is going to be drawn east. Bubba or anyone else is not going to beat UNI, NDSU, ans SDSU for recruits in MN and WI (the area he knows he needs to focus in) playing out west. The Summit will continue to be a top 15 with ORU, and will grow to be on par with the Horizon and MVC. The Sky will always be a 20+. The new SF arena will get 10k+ for the Summit championship in years to come. Thats what UND could be a part of, and its just down the road. A few points: -UND has already beat those schools for recruits, this year and in the past. By no means every battle, but with how UND has performed the past few years and the lack of emphasis that was put on those states, more than they should have. Why is it going to change all of the sudden to no recruits? -The Summit has been up the last few years, but they have historically been the same. Not sure where your confidence of them remaining where they currently are forever comes from. And until either one of them gets more than one bid or consistently gets ranked higher than the other in the tournament, you're blowing hot air. Oh, and the Summit has a losing record in the head to head match-ups against the Big Sky this year. -The new SF arena will probably draw very well, but it will be 90%+ SDSU and USD fans. Will NDSU even have 500 fans? Maybe if they make it to the championship game, but otherwise, I'd take the under. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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