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UND and the Big Sky could go FBS

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2 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Allow me a simple posit:

Look at the MAC. Yes, the G5 FBS Mid-America Conference. 

Those schools have nothing on UND, NDSU, SDSU, USD, Montana, Montana State, Idaho. 

A MAC type conference is missing in the west. It used to be the WAC, before WAC football died. 

Huge difference in the MAC and WAC.  

MAC Current football members: 12

MAC Former Football members: 8

WAC Former Football members: 27

The MAC has been stable since 1971, although some could argue 1952.

The WAC was stable from 67-99 when the MWC formed under rules that are no longer allowed by the NCAA.  You won't be seeing a new conference form in the east that is going to poach MAC teams unless the P5 completely breaks away.


 

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To your point, a stable conference needs a stable core. 

Looks like that has just been (re)formed along the I-29 corridor. 

What's the longer term plan. Or is it business-as-usual go-along-get-along. 

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It's coming up on the time where I think there will be a slew of FCS conference reconfiguration announcements so thought this link would be informative.

Schools that go FBS see almost a 500 student enrollment increase for years after their FBS announcement,  even if they lose at FBS.  Schools that drop FBS see the opposite impact.  An FBS decision doesn't impact in state students, but it creates much more awareness for out of state ones.  UND needs more advertising in the Twin Cities and Wisconsin and some the best outreach is with FBS.  Going FBS would take money, but growth would follow.  Wichita St and UT-Arlington saw major enrollment drops when they dropped football.  Coastal Carolina, Georgia Southern, and UMass have seen increases.

http://businessofcollegesports.com/2013/12/17/indirect-benefits-of-umass-football-moving-to-fbs/

 

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2 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

It's coming up on the time where I think there will be a slew of FCS conference reconfiguration announcements so thought this link would be informative.

Schools that go FBS see almost a 500 student enrollment increase for years after their FBS announcement,  even if they lose at FBS.  Schools that drop FBS see the opposite impact.  An FBS decision doesn't impact in state students, but it creates much more awareness for out of state ones.  UND needs more advertising in the Twin Cities and Wisconsin and some the best outreach is with FBS.  Going FBS would take money, but growth would follow.  Wichita St and UT-Arlington saw major enrollment drops when they dropped football.  Coastal Carolina, Georgia Southern, and UMass have seen increases.

http://businessofcollegesports.com/2013/12/17/indirect-benefits-of-umass-football-moving-to-fbs/

 

Where would we come up with the money to move up? We just cut a bunch of sports to make ends meet. Also unless the g5 announces a playoff of its conferences there is ZERO interest of going FBS. Too many negatives at this point. A lot has to happen to even think about moving up. 

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43 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

Where would we come up with the money to move up? We just cut a bunch of sports to make ends meet. Also unless the g5 announces a playoff of its conferences there is ZERO interest of going FBS. Too many negatives at this point. A lot has to happen to even think about moving up. 

With WIH, baseball, M golf and M&W swimming, there was more than enough cuts to meet the FBS challenge including another women's sport.

FBS facilities would have to be donated.

Presidents know much more than we fans.

A bowl game at US Bank stadium would be huge exposure for any Dakota school right where they want it.

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3 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

With WIH, baseball, M golf and M&W swimming, there was more than enough cuts to meet the FBS challenge including another women's sport.

FBS facilities would have to be donated.

Presidents know much more than we fans.

A bowl game at US Bank stadium would be huge exposure for any Dakota school right where they want it.

People here care about one bowl, the Potato Bowl (not the one in Idaho). I want national titles not champion of a worthless Bowl.

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40 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

People here care about one bowl, the Potato Bowl (not the one in Idaho). I want national titles not champion of a worthless Bowl.

Guess you and the other people need to find a way to get 500 more student enrollments per year then.  Then you will be heard.

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17 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

It's coming up on the time where I think there will be a slew of FCS conference reconfiguration announcements so thought this link would be informative.

Schools that go FBS see almost a 500 student enrollment increase for years after their FBS announcement,  even if they lose at FBS.  Schools that drop FBS see the opposite impact.  An FBS decision doesn't impact in state students, but it creates much more awareness for out of state ones.  UND needs more advertising in the Twin Cities and Wisconsin and some the best outreach is with FBS.  Going FBS would take money, but growth would follow.  Wichita St and UT-Arlington saw major enrollment drops when they dropped football.  Coastal Carolina, Georgia Southern, and UMass have seen increases.

http://businessofcollegesports.com/2013/12/17/indirect-benefits-of-umass-football-moving-to-fbs/

Just curious which of those examples you actually looked into before tossing them out there? I'd guess not many since they don't really support what you claim.

  • Coastal Carolina was growing well before they announced any FBS move and the growth rate has been flat or slightly declining since their announcement, which was in the fall of 2015. There was definitely no huge jump in 2016 or 2017 supporting your theory
  • Georgia Southern's enrollment has been flat (actually down 0.8%) since 2012, so they have not seen an increase.
  • UMass has seen a fairly minimal increase since their announcement (5% total over 5 years, average of less than 1% increase per year) and they were increasing before any announcements, so I'm not sure how you can quantify any increase specifically on the move when they were already moving in that direction prior to any announcement or move.
  • Wichita State dropped football over 30 years ago, so I'm not sure how that's relevant but in 2017 they have recently been having record enrollments. However they dropped football in 1986 when they had enrollment of 16,843 and then proceeded to have increases for the next 3 years to a record high of 17,419 in 1989 before seeing any drop. 
  • UT-Arlington also dropped football over 30 years ago so again, not sure how relevant that is in today's world, but they too are currently having record enrollments and are around double what they were when they dropped football. However I can't find any historical data that supports a major enrollment drop when they dropped football. 

 

 

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11 hours ago, darell1976 said:

People here care about one bowl, the Potato Bowl (not the one in Idaho). I want national titles not champion of a worthless Bowl.

Speak for yourself.

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17 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

It's coming up on the time where I think there will be a slew of FCS conference reconfiguration announcements so thought this link would be informative.

Schools that go FBS see almost a 500 student enrollment increase for years after their FBS announcement,  even if they lose at FBS.  Schools that drop FBS see the opposite impact.  An FBS decision doesn't impact in state students, but it creates much more awareness for out of state ones.  UND needs more advertising in the Twin Cities and Wisconsin and some the best outreach is with FBS.  Going FBS would take money, but growth would follow.  Wichita St and UT-Arlington saw major enrollment drops when they dropped football.  Coastal Carolina, Georgia Southern, and UMass have seen increases.

http://businessofcollegesports.com/2013/12/17/indirect-benefits-of-umass-football-moving-to-fbs/

 

Thought you said you wouldnt bring this up again if your prediction didnt come true? Well it didnt come true----are you not a man or your word???????

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27 minutes ago, Cratter said:

Speak for yourself.

So you want UND to quit playing for national titles and move up to play in some Bowl most of the country won’t remember? 5-7 gets you a bowl bid, I guess that’s something to be proud of.

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45 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

So you want UND to quit playing for national titles and move up to play in some Bowl most of the country won’t remember? 5-7 gets you a bowl bid, I guess that’s something to be proud of.

Not everyone shares the same views as you....Lots of people wanted to stay D2 too.

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9 hours ago, jdub27 said:

Just curious which of those examples you actually looked into before tossing them out there? I'd guess not many since they don't really support what you claim.

  • Coastal Carolina was growing well before they announced any FBS move and the growth rate has been flat or slightly declining since their announcement, which was in the fall of 2015. There was definitely no huge jump in 2016 or 2017 supporting your theory
  • Georgia Southern's enrollment has been flat (actually down 0.8%) since 2012, so they have not seen an increase.
  • UMass has seen a fairly minimal increase since their announcement (5% total over 5 years, average of less than 1% increase per year) and they were increasing before any announcements, so I'm not sure how you can quantify any increase specifically on the move when they were already moving in that direction prior to any announcement or move.
  • Wichita State dropped football over 30 years ago, so I'm not sure how that's relevant but in 2017 they have recently been having record enrollments. However they dropped football in 1986 when they had enrollment of 16,843 and then proceeded to have increases for the next 3 years to a record high of 17,419 in 1989 before seeing any drop. 
  • UT-Arlington also dropped football over 30 years ago so again, not sure how relevant that is in today's world, but they too are currently having record enrollments and are around double what they were when they dropped football. However I can't find any historical data that supports a major enrollment drop when they dropped football. 

 

 

Enrollment is just not all about numbers, but about quality and $'s netted.

UMass is in an area where college age students are way down.  The UMass administrators have not backed down from FBS.

UT-Arlington made it a point to separate itself from the low level Southland conference for a reason.  UTA has not denied that they my be interested in FBS.  Same with the Shockers, which saw a decline in enrollment when football was dropped.

Only the years immediately after the decision really effect a new enrollment, but in Wichita Set's case, a Final Four appearance complicates the picture.  Wichita St would do well to get more Texas students, and that takes football.  They are now in a league with Texas schools, so they might be satisfied.

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1 hour ago, Cratter said:

Not everyone shares the same views as you....Lots of people wanted to stay D2 too.

And not everyone shares your viewpoint either. 

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30 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

Enrollment is just not all about numbers, but about quality and $'s netted.

UMass is in an area where college age students are way down.  The UMass administrators have not backed down from FBS.

UT-Arlington made it a point to separate itself from the low level Southland conference for a reason.  UTA has denied that they my be interested in FBS.  Same with the Shockers, which saw a decline in enrollment when football was dropped.

Only the years immediately after the decision really effect a new enrollment, but in Wichita Set's case, a Final Four appearance complicates the picture.  Wichita St would do well to get more Texas students, and that takes football.  They are now in a league with Texas schools, so they might be satisfied.

Your post was about enrollment. I pointed out that your statements appear to be false based on actual numbers publicly available.

At UMass, they were trending that direction well before any FBS announcement and there has been no noticeable change because of the announcement. 

UT-A and Wichita State are light years ahead of where they were when they dropped football 30 years ago. I don't think that is actually relevant, but they were your example. Because they don't have football, Wichita State is able to pump more money into basketball, which they have become very successful at. It is just as logical to conclude that Wichita State would actually be in a worse position had they not dropped football. Same with UT-A. You could state that resources that were previously going to football have been reallocated and allowed them focus on other areas and that has spurred their growth.

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2 hours ago, Cratter said:

Not everyone shares the same views as you....Lots of people wanted to stay D2 too.

1 hour ago, darell1976 said:

And not everyone shares your viewpoint either. 

Only one of you was attempting to speak for the board in a prior post.

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37 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Only one of you was attempting to speak for the board in a prior post.

Saying “people” and saying “everyone on this board” is two different things. So glad you couldn’t tell the difference.:silly:

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4 hours ago, darell1976 said:

So you want UND to quit playing for national titles and move up to play in some Bowl most of the country won’t remember? 5-7 gets you a bowl bid, I guess that’s something to be proud of.

When has und played for an fcs national title?

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45 minutes ago, Texas rancher said:

When has und played for an fcs national title?

Like that gave Youngstown St an FBS bid.  Coastal, Texas St, South Alabama, and FIU haven't done anything to "deserve" moving up.

If UND goes FBS, that will immediately make NDSU's Frisco appearances irrelevant.  

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5 hours ago, darell1976 said:

So you want UND to quit playing for national titles and move up to play in some Bowl most of the country won’t remember? 5-7 gets you a bowl bid, I guess that’s something to be proud of.

We are in the field for national titles in every sport we offer except for football where we and the rest of the FCS division are competing for 131st place currently. I am alright with that but I can see how some people might not be.

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1 hour ago, petey23 said:

We are in the field for national titles in every sport we offer except for football where we and the rest of the FCS division are competing for 131st place currently. I am alright with that but I can see how some people might not be.

That is pure baloney. There are a lot of FBS teams that would have trouble winning FCS conference titles, let alone national titles. Bowling Green immediately comes to mind, as well as the entire Sun Belch.

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12 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said:

That is pure baloney. There are a lot of FBS teams that would have trouble winning FCS conference titles, let alone national titles. Bowling Green immediately comes to mind, as well as the entire Sun Belch.

Sure. That's not the point. At the end of the day we are playing in a level below 130 FBS teams and are essentially playing for 131st place. Like I said I am fine with that distinction but it seems you are not.

Hell, I see Class E teams in softball sometimes beat Class C teams but when it comes state tournament time, the C teams are still playing for the C title and the E teams are playing for the E title which is about 45-50 spots lower on the totem pole.

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9 hours ago, petey23 said:

Sure. That's not the point. At the end of the day we are playing in a level below 130 FBS teams and are essentially playing for 131st place. Like I said I am fine with that distinction but it seems you are not.

Hell, I see Class E teams in softball sometimes beat Class C teams but when it comes state tournament time, the C teams are still playing for the C title and the E teams are playing for the E title which is about 45-50 spots lower on the totem pole.

What place are the G5 teams that can’t win a national championship playing for? An undefeated Sun Belt team wouldn’t make the playoffs.

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