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I can't see them putting in the bridge/bypass that far north.  That would defeat the purpose.  Safest bet seems to be pulling traffic off of I-29 at Merrifield, running along the elevated dike with interchanges at Columbia and Washington, and then crossing the Red near the Country Club.  There is already at least one 'future bridge' advisory sign out there.

 

That does make a lot of sense, a bypass before they get to town. It would make sense for the beat trucks going to Crystal Sugar. 

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I am not saying people shouldn't have a voice in where a bridge is built. But they shouldn't have unlimited veto power, either. It has to go someplace. Thus NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) needs to be combated and defeated.

Combated and defeated? When did buying property become a crime?

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Combated and defeated? When did buying property become a crime?

 

I think it's the incessant whining that is the crime, although many of us have been guilty at one time or another so we ain't exactly throwing stones here.

 

There are only two ways to defend against unwelcome encroachment (i.e., progress, development, road widening, multi-family, commercial, industrial) on one's castle…(1) find a fully platted, fully zoned residential neighborhood and build right in the middle with lots of like-minded neighbors, and (2) buy a huge tract of undeveloped land and build right in the middle with lots of natural barriers on all sides.  Otherwise, the encroachment is completely foreseeable and caveat emptor applies.  It's not rocket science.

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When people bought homes right under the flight path at MSP and sued the Mac for noise.

Hey, I'm with you on that argument. That's like buying a house a block down W 7th Street at Kellogg Blvd in St Paul and then complaining about all the traffic on nights the Wild are playing at home.

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Combated and defeated? When did buying property become a crime?

Don't put words in my mouth.  I was talking about the selfish, whining, crying attitude of NIMBY, not buying property or a home.  When you live in a city, you don't have exclusive veto power over every little project that might impact you.  It isn't all about you.  If you want that kind of control over your enviornment, move out in the country miles from any organized settlement and you will have that kind of control.  It's also about what is good for the community as a whole.  Infrastructure (or the lack of it) impacts everybody that lives in the same city.  Like I have said before, I would NOT immediately shoot down a bridge that would impact my immediate area.  But if the final decision was to build it in my immediate area, I would support it and not whine and complain about it 24/7 because I support the city that I live in.  I'll gladly pay taxes and have roads, bridges, clean water, a functioning sewer system and other things than live in a third-world country where those things exist in large cities.....if at all.  And if that is socialism or Marxism or whatever other nonsense I hear being thrown around by people that don't even know what the terms really mean, then so be it.  End rant.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Folks, simple reality: 

 

Progress is good. 

 

Monstrosities like this poseur 'gfhockey' and his delusional "old boys" are what will make Grand Forks probably not a top five city in the state in my lifetime. (Fargo, Bismarck, Minot, Williston, and either Mandan or Dickinson ... or both). 

 

Grand Forks needs to fix its "Eeyore" attitude. GF is sure what it *can't* do. There is nothing that Fargo has that Grand Forks doesn't have also (save for one interstate highway) and it has some things that Fargo just doesn't but they aren't used: 

 

- Major university? Check

- I-29 for N/S transport? Check

- Direct road to major US port (Duluth)? Check

- Direct road to the Bakken? Check

- Major N/S and E/W railways including crossing the Red? Check 

 

What Grand Forks *does* have that Fargo doesn't:

- Major flood protection already installed (Fargo's staring at a $2 billion bill)

- Multiple water sources to support growth (people and industry) -- Fargo may *need* water from the Missouri just to meet basic needs in the not so distant future and that cost would make flood protection sound cheap*

- Strong ability to support areas of the "new" economy (Bakken, UAV) through UND and unique items (GFAFB)

 

I've said it before, but it bears repeating: Fargo is where it is because it is self-confident to a fault; Grand Forks is self-unassured to a fault. 

 

And the 1997 flood, I'm sorry it happened, it was horrific, but it was nearly two decades ago. It's usefulness as an excuse has worn thin. Move on. (Quit clinging to the past, like with other subjects as well ... ) 

 

 

Grand Forks has done some great things (flood protection after surviving that mess is primary) but is afraid to admit it. 

 

 

*If you don't have water, you're done. GF has all the water Fargo has plus the Wild Rice (of MN) and Red Lake Rivers. 

 

 

PS - Dear GFH ink-stained wretches that read this: Feel free to use it for your next editorial if you dare. 

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Folks, simple reality: 

 

Progress is good. 

 

Monstrosities like this poseur 'gfhockey' and his delusional "old boys" are what will make Grand Forks probably not a top five city in the state in my lifetime. (Fargo, Bismarck, Minot, Williston, and either Mandan or Dickinson ... or both). 

 

Grand Forks needs to fix its "Eeyore" attitude. GF is sure what it *can't* do. There is nothing that Fargo has that Grand Forks doesn't have also (save for one interstate highway) and it has some things that Fargo just doesn't but they aren't used: 

 

- Major university? Check

- I-29 for N/S transport? Check

- Direct road to major US port (Duluth)? Check

- Direct road to the Bakken? Check

- Major N/S and E/W railways including crossing the Red? Check 

 

What Grand Forks *does* have that Fargo doesn't:

- Major flood protection already installed (Fargo's staring at a $2 billion bill)

- Multiple water sources to support growth (people and industry) -- Fargo may *need* water from the Missouri just to meet basic needs in the not so distant future and that cost would make flood protection sound cheap*

- Strong ability to support areas of the "new" economy (Bakken, UAV) through UND and unique items (GFAFB)

 

I've said it before, but it bears repeating: Fargo is where it is because it is self-confident to a fault; Grand Forks is self-unassured to a fault. 

 

And the 1997 flood, I'm sorry it happened, it was horrific, but it was nearly two decades ago. It's usefulness as an excuse has worn thin. Move on. (Quit clinging to the past, like with other subjects as well ... ) 

 

 

Grand Forks has done some great things (flood protection after surviving that mess is primary) but is afraid to admit it. 

 

 

*If you don't have water, you're done. GF has all the water Fargo has plus the Wild Rice (of MN) and Red Lake Rivers. 

 

 

PS - Dear GFH ink-stained wretches that read this: Feel free to use it for your next editorial if you dare. 

 

Unfortunately for GF, the Fargo metro has the jobs for UND grads.  Bigger and better engineering firms, bigger and better accounting firms, bigger and better mall, bigger and better news media, better hospitals (also, emphasis on plural), Microsoft, Cargill, Titan Machinery, 3 universities (2 of which are good for hiring entry level professors), cheaper housing, cheaper everything else, and potential for southern and western expansion via West Fargo.  The city planners of Grand Forks may as well have built walls on the north and west sides of the city.  Duluth has been dying for decades and Williston is a long drive (nobody wants to visit Williston for a weekend anyway), so the argument of HWY 2 = I-94 is a bit weak as well.  Also, for being a college town, the city of Grand Forks and its permanent residents are quite hostile to students and young adults in general.  Due to this, most students have little to no interest in living in GF after graduation.  All the city cares about is attracting Canadians to shop there, and not enough thought is given to making the college students and graduates happy.  Fargo embraces what it is (a hub city for rural residents and a landing pad for young adults who think MSP is too big), rather than focusing on Canadian shoppers (they're going to come regardless) and spending taxpayer dollars to become an enclave of "art" and green energy that is entirely dependent on the federal gov't.  Can GF make improvements to keep young people in the city?  Sure, but it's going to take some soul-searching and a change in culture, and that doesn't mean spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on an "art corridor" that nobody cares about.  

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Now, since I'm on a roll, about UND:

 

 

As an alumnus who has earmarked a sizable portion of his estate to UND upon his passing, I care. 

 

I believe it's time for me to take a more active role in making UND what I expect it to be. 

 

If you care, take an active role too. 

 

When you walk up to Dan Muus or Steve Brekke do they know who you are? (For that matter, do you know who they are and what they do?) Have you told them what's impressed you and what hasn't?

 

Do you show you care? Posting here does not count. 

 

I've let Dan know some concerns about my college and program within the University within the last six weeks. Dan answered. (It's more than I've ever gotten from Kelley when contacting him.*)

 

So, fellow UND friends, family, and alumni: Do you care? If so, get on it. 

 

 

*I miss Kupchella. He'd reply. For that matter, I miss Harmeson. He'd reply. You don't have to agree with someone 100% of the time; I just like to know people are engaged and can explain what they are doing and why.

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Unfortunately for GF, the Fargo metro has the jobs for UND grads.  Bigger and better engineering firms, bigger and better accounting firms, bigger and better mall, bigger and better news media, better hospitals (also, emphasis on plural), Microsoft, Cargill, Titan Machinery, 3 universities (2 of which are good for hiring entry level professors), cheaper housing, cheaper everything else, and potential for southern and western expansion via West Fargo.  The city planners of Grand Forks may as well have built walls on the north and west sides of the city.  Duluth has been dying for decades and Williston is a long drive (nobody wants to visit Williston for a weekend anyway), so the argument of HWY 2 = I-94 is a bit weak as well.  Also, for being a college town, the city of Grand Forks and its permanent residents are quite hostile to students and young adults in general.  Due to this, most students have little to no interest in living in GF after graduation.  All the city cares about is attracting Canadians to shop there, and not enough thought is given to making the college students and graduates happy.  Fargo embraces what it is (a hub city for rural residents and a landing pad for young adults who think MSP is too big), rather than focusing on Canadian shoppers (they're going to come regardless) and spending taxpayer dollars to become an enclave of "art" and green energy that is entirely dependent on the federal gov't.  Can GF make improvements to keep young people in the city?  Sure, but it's going to take some soul-searching and a change in culture, and that doesn't mean spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on an "art corridor" that nobody cares about.  

 

Thank you, Eeyore. ;)

 

Fargo has walls (think: western diversion).

Business and innovation creates jobs and malls and such. Those weren't given to Fargo when the Earth was formed. 

 

Your best point is "media", ... but don't we constantly hear about "new media"? Fargo has terrestrial radio and television, but the internet makes those less consequential every day is what I'm constantly told. 

 

Grand Forks can easily embrace what it is: the north Red River Valley hub. 

Doing that will require a long hard look in the mirror and the soul searching you reference. 

 

What won't work is "quick fixes" like "art corridors". The world is changing. Don't become the next "Duluth". 

 

What it takes is (stand by for Hakstol quote) "controlling what's yours to control", and the first thing on that list is attitude. After that is a willingness to work toward a vision of what you want to be. 

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Now, since I'm on a roll, about UND:

 

 

As an alumnus who has earmarked a sizable portion of his estate to UND upon his passing, I care. 

 

I believe it's time for me to take a more active role in making UND what I expect it to be. 

 

If you care, take an active role too. 

 

When you walk up to Dan Muus or Steve Brekke do they know who you are? (For that matter, do you know who they are and what they do?) Have you told them what's impressed you and what hasn't?

 

Do you show you care? Posting here does not count. 

 

I've let Dan know some concerns about my college and program within the University within the last six weeks. Dan answered. (It's more than I've ever gotten from Kelley when contacting him.*)

 

So, fellow UND friends, family, and alumni: Do you care? If so, get on it. 

 

 

*I miss Kupchella. He'd reply. For that matter, I miss Harmeson. He'd reply. You don't have to agree with someone 100% of the time; I just like to know people are engaged and can explain what they are doing and why.

I think a strong NDSU and UND are vital for all of ND.  As far as Harmeson goes he let his hatred for all things not UND govern his decision making that lead to bad decisions.   

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Thank you, Eeyore. ;)

 

Fargo has walls (think: western diversion).

Business and innovation creates jobs and malls and such. Those weren't given to Fargo when the Earth was formed. 

 

Your best point is "media", ... but don't we constantly hear about "new media"? Fargo has terrestrial radio and television, but the internet makes those less consequential every day is what I'm constantly told. 

 

Grand Forks can easily embrace what it is: the north Red River Valley hub. 

Doing that will require a long hard look in the mirror and the soul searching you reference. 

 

What won't work is "quick fixes" like "art corridors". The world is changing. Don't become the next "Duluth". 

 

What it takes is (stand by for Hakstol quote) "controlling what's yours to control", and the first thing on that list is attitude. After that is a willingness to work toward a vision of what you want to be. 

 

I didn't entirely disagree with you:

Can GF make improvements to keep young people in the city?  Sure, but it's going to take some soul-searching and a change in culture, and that doesn't mean spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on an "art corridor" that nobody cares about.  

 

I simply pointed out the challenges Grand Forks faces, many of which are self-imposed/created.  Grand Forks needs to start competing with itself, rather than with Fargo.  Hopefully that makes sense.

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I simply pointed out the challenges Grand Forks faces, many of which are self-imposed/created.  Grand Forks needs to start competing with itself, rather than with Fargo.  Hopefully that makes sense.

 

Yup. Grand Forks needs to get out its own way and show off what it can do. 

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All this is fine an good, but the reality is Grand Forks is hurt by having a town three times it's size only an hour away. Do all you want but when people see more opportunities and a faster growing community the young people move. I was raised in GF and have saw many people move to Fargo (even before I did). Why do you think Duluth is "dying."

Opposite is true for UND. Having fargo helps. When I went I school at UND tons of people from Fargo.

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Unfortunately for GF, the Fargo metro has the jobs for UND grads.  Bigger and better engineering firms, bigger and better accounting firms, bigger and better mall, bigger and better news media, better hospitals (also, emphasis on plural), Microsoft, Cargill, Titan Machinery, 3 universities (2 of which are good for hiring entry level professors), cheaper housing, cheaper everything else, and potential for southern and western expansion via West Fargo.  The city planners of Grand Forks may as well have built walls on the north and west sides of the city.  Duluth has been dying for decades and Williston is a long drive (nobody wants to visit Williston for a weekend anyway), so the argument of HWY 2 = I-94 is a bit weak as well.  Also, for being a college town, the city of Grand Forks and its permanent residents are quite hostile to students and young adults in general.  Due to this, most students have little to no interest in living in GF after graduation.  All the city cares about is attracting Canadians to shop there, and not enough thought is given to making the college students and graduates happy.  Fargo embraces what it is (a hub city for rural residents and a landing pad for young adults who think MSP is too big), rather than focusing on Canadian shoppers (they're going to come regardless) and spending taxpayer dollars to become an enclave of "art" and green energy that is entirely dependent on the federal gov't.  Can GF make improvements to keep young people in the city?  Sure, but it's going to take some soul-searching and a change in culture, and that doesn't mean spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on an "art corridor" that nobody cares about.  

You are equating bigger with better; they are not the same thing.  Ask long-time residents of Williston if bigger=better and they'll give you a mixed answer.  The answer is not to just give up and throw in the towel.  Quitters never win and winners never quit.  Sicatoka is 100% spot on with his post and I wish Grand Forks leaders (and the leaders of this campus for that matter) would get the message as well.

 

And FYI, GF is growing to the west (there was a story in the Heraldo about it this week).

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All this is fine an good, but the reality is Grand Forks is hurt by having a town three times it's size only an hour away. Do all you want but when people see more opportunities and a faster growing community the young people move. I was raised in GF and have saw many people move to Fargo (even before I did). Why do you think Duluth is "dying."

Opposite is true for UND. Having fargo helps. When I went I school at UND tons of people from Fargo.

Like I told UNDBIZ, quitters never win and winners never quit.  We have a lot of positives here, but the only people that seem to realize it are people that are visiting.  That has to change.  Think big and you will get there.  Think small and you have already dug your own grave.

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The good ole boys run this town

Just come to t stop Monday mornings

We like how the town is

We don't want it to get bigger

Means more competition for the ole boys businesses.

Why do you no new liquor stores have came in to gf?

Awww, ain't that just too bad? :angry::silly:  Maybe your pals should just retire and leave innovation and progress to the next generation.

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