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Indian nicknames in the news


jimdahl
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If it's a ok name I'll smile & still be happy staying Fighting Sioux in my mind - If it sucks (& odds seem to be it will) I will just pretend it never happened like I am doing now

If it were up to me I'd prefer to not go thru that & just stay ND

I don't mind waiting until kelly & faison are gone - hopefully it will hasten that to happen

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If it happens I still say get a AHL team & name them Fighting Sioux & UND can be what ever - it would be laughable to see who sells out the Ralph & sells the most branding

I hope if any attempt to stop Fighting Sioux were to ever happen that the Ralph management has the ability to do a AHL deal

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Does UND want to be a real D-1 school? 

 

I would hope so. 

 

To do so, it takes $$$.  Marketing and branding is not a joke.  Profit from the sale of UND gear is down.  Obviously because the Sioux logo is vanishing and nobody wants those ugly damn shirts/jerseys that just have "North Dakota" on them. 

 

UND's athletic budget...the spending...is at about 22 million dollars.  Schools like Colorado State University spend about 34 million.  Wyoming spends about 27 million. 

 

Want to play with the big boys...gotta have more revenue which equals more spending.  CSU and UW aren't even the big boys.  Yet, UND can't match them. 

 

Personally, I have 7 Sioux hockey jerseys.  8 Sioux hoodies...20...yes 20  Sioux caps... winter caps, cell phone covers...t-shirts...on and on... all with Fighting Sioux name and logo.  Stuff that can't be as easily found now.  I have it for myself.  I'll wear them proudly.  But...

 

I want to see UND grow into a strong D-1 school.  This generation in school needs a nickname/mascot...whatever.  Something beyond "North Dakota" to brand the school.  It is needed for marketing purposes.  The name Fighting Sioux is no longer an option.  It's dead.   

 

Get over it and move on.  Let this generation have their name.  We had ours. 

 

Don't be selfish and continue to act like petulant children.  Grow up.

 

 

Let me guess, you work in Marketing. or you took a few classes in Gamble.  Winning teams drive revenue, including alumni donations, media contracts, increased student fees, corporate sponsors and ticket sales, and it doesn't matter what they're called.  9-10 years ago you could have walked into Oregon's football stadium for a home game and basically have the place to yourself.  And look at the "Ducks" now, well not so much after Ohio State ate their lunch, but still ...  If you want to sell t-shirts and related branded garb to fund a D1 athletic department, you may was well have a few thousand bake sales too.

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Let me guess, you work in Marketing. or you took a few classes in Gamble. Winning teams drive revenue, including alumni donations, media contracts, increased student fees, corporate sponsors and ticket sales, and it doesn't matter what they're called. 9-10 years ago you could have walked into Oregon's football stadium for a home game and basically have the place to yourself. And look at the "Ducks" now, well not so much after Ohio State ate their lunch, but still ... If you want to sell t-shirts and related branded garb to fund a D1 athletic department, you may was well have a few thousand bake sales too.

How many World Series titles have the Chicago Cubs won in the past century? Winning can drive merchandise sales. So can marketing and branding.
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Some are in such a hurry to change to a new name, what happens if we get stuck with something that really sucks? Another two years would give the nickname committee more time to come up with an acceptable nickname. 

 

The fact that anyone can actually think this is moving too fast is absolutely mind-boggling.  This has been going on for the better part of a decade or longer, depending on when what event you decide was the beginning of the end.  And on top of that, having the legislature require this to drag out two more years?  Absurd.  

 

Do you think someone's going to invent a new word or name and logo in the next years and UND will miss out on it?  The options then will be what the options are right now.  Use the first committee's recommendations to form a committee to come up with a name and let them put some options out there.  

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I don't know if that is true or not, I haven't seen a balance sheet, so I will take your word for it, There's quite a few people wearing the North Dakota jerseys at games. There's also a lot of people buying merchandise in the Sioux Shop during games. Some are in such a hurry to change to a new name, what happens if we get stuck with something that really sucks? Another two years would give the nickname committee more time to come up with an acceptable nickname.

What does happen if we get stuck with a name that "sucks"? Simple, you cheer on North Dakota to victory and be proud of the school. If not there is always that school 80 miles south of Grand Forks to cheer for.

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Ask people with Marketing experience about the value of a brand/logo. We weren't the Fighting Sioux that was our name and logo. We were UND athletes and coaches who played for each other, our University and our fans. The new name will become the new tradition and become just as beloved as the Fighting Sioux name. You folks who keep harping that Kelly was brought here to retire the name have no clue. That was supposed to have been resolved before he got here and he didn't cause the problem. The problem started in the 1960's and over the years we as fans, the University, the tribes, the state and our communities sat on our collective rear ends and let this happen. Some of us lobbied politicians, athletic dept. officials, coach's, and. University administrators long before the NCAA stepped in to solidify the relationships with the tribes. Suggestions included putting student teachers on the reservations, having our grad students in psychology, social work, the health sciences etc. do rotations on the reservations. Having our coaches do coaches clinics and hold scrimmages on the reservations. Didn't get done. Don't tell me how important a name is. It isn't. It's only part of the tradition. You can wring your hands over the decision but quit blaming the wrong people. The name is gone. Pick almost anything reasonable and we will be fine. Keep the legislature out of it. They have messed it up enough. Quit pretending the name is sacred. It isn't and it wasn't that important to enough of our Native brethren to save it when it could have been saved. The Ben Brien logo was the coolest part of the Fighting Sioux name and I certainly wouldn't put it in the hands of people who do not have the best interest of the University as a priority. The voting is no longer relevant. Who cares what the results were. Pick a name and let's start focusing on what is in the best interest of the University and that would be a new name and logo.

Thank you ira for injecting some common sense and calm into the discussion.  Agree 100%

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How well do you think the Cubs would do if they were made to change their name?

Ya wanna catch a pups game? Go pups!!

It would be start over time with respect to name brand...

They couldn't do much worse than they have been. Epstein will likely do more for the Cubs than the name.

It already is start over time for us with our name and the sooner we move on, the better.

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As Chewey stated, and I do agree with his statement:

That ambiguity (does "no nickname" meet the "new nickname" verbiage of the Settlement?) means that UND is "the wrong judge in the wrong court on the wrong day" away from being subject to the NCAA Policy.

There is one sure-fire way to avoid that: Choose a new nickname.

Any ambiguity about the surrender agreement as far as the policy and what 8 in violation of that policy would be construed in favor of the school/state. Having the Fighting Sioux nickname was in violation of its asinine policy regarding "hostile andabusive" nicknames. That was clear. That clarity is not present with the surrender agreement as to the " North Dakota" issue. I've said it before: How can not having a nickname violation of a policy or surrender agreement that address hostile and abusive nicknames? It is not a violation. Pursuing this would require the NCAA to contort itself even more to "correct" a double negative: not having an offensive nickname and not doing anything that violates a stupid policy. The NCAA is not above pursuing inanities but there must be some faux "policy" that's being violated or there must be some self appointed "moral outrage" that must be addressed. Not having nickname completely insulates the school and state from such capricious and arbitrary progressive moralizing and subjectivism. No baloney about not having a nickname impacting the collective self esteem of certain groups. No papers could be written about how not having a nickname is "racist" or "insensitive" or "an appropriation of cultural symbols that perpetuates white privilege". So Sicatoka and others HAVE to have a stupid substitute nickname to rally around the teams and school? I thought we were all following the clarion call to be proud and supportive of being UND after all. The ham fisted attempt to get a new nickname for "marketing" (translation: we really want people to start saying and wearing things other that Fighting Sioux or Go Sioux because we want no vestiges of that nasty evil terminology ever - anywhere - because of the ongoing emotional harm it will cause to the psyches of a few perpetually outraged perennial students/professors) is a most facile and transparent faux "urgency". PhD s dripping around UND and Kelley et al couldn't be more creative than that? People with years of business and marketing experience advising Kelley and loss of "marketing dollars" is the supposed extremity that must be avoided? They didnt have the collective intellectual muse to be more creative than this?
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Ask people with Marketing experience about the value of a brand/logo. We weren't the Fighting Sioux that was our name and logo. We were UND athletes and coaches who played for each other, our University and our fans. The new name will become the new tradition and become just as beloved as the Fighting Sioux name. You folks who keep harping that Kelly was brought here to retire the name have no clue. That was supposed to have been resolved before he got here and he didn't cause the problem. The problem started in the 1960's and over the years we as fans, the University, the tribes, the state and our communities sat on our collective rear ends and let this happen. Some of us lobbied politicians, athletic dept. officials, coach's, and. University administrators long before the NCAA stepped in to solidify the relationships with the tribes. Suggestions included putting student teachers on the reservations, having our grad students in psychology, social work, the health sciences etc. do rotations on the reservations. Having our coaches do coaches clinics and hold scrimmages on the reservations. Didn't get done. Don't tell me how important a name is. It isn't. It's only part of the tradition. You can wring your hands over the decision but quit blaming the wrong people. The name is gone. Pick almost anything reasonable and we will be fine. Keep the legislature out of it. They have messed it up enough. Quit pretending the name is sacred. It isn't and it wasn't that important to enough of our Native brethren to save it when it could have been saved. The Ben Brien logo was the coolest part of the Fighting Sioux name and I certainly wouldn't put it in the hands of people who do not have the best interest of the University as a priority. The voting is no longer relevant. Who cares what the results were. Pick a name and let's start focusing on what is in the best interest of the University and that would be a new name and logo.

Good post!!

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Went to Scheels last night in Fargo. Stored filled w everything NDSU Bison. Why? Because "Bison" is marketable and easily branded on it's own? Because the "Bison" logo is the best logo in the store? Because when "Bison" crap it's the size of a newborn child? Nay, nay and nay. The store is filled with "Bison" shirts, jerseys, hats, shot glasses, clocks and scarves because their "fans" want a piece of a winner...a 4x FCS FB NC winner. Has very little to do with marketing/brandind at this point. UND needs a decent nickname/logo not something pathetic and lame...although the latter is almost a given...but regardless of what is chosen anything UND _______ will sell with very little marketing/branding if Hak ever wins a NC or Bubba can resurrect the FB program and get a NC or if Jones can get his squad to the dance a time or 2. Enough with the marketing and branding blah blah blah. UND fans will buy the new logo appearal when it comes out but it will definitely sell better if UND can produce big time winners with its team...just go to Scheels in Fargo for an example.

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Went to Scheels last night in Fargo. Stored filled w everything NDSU Bison. Why? Because "Bison" is marketable and easily branded on it's own? Because the "Bison" logo is the best logo in the store? Because when "Bison" crap it's the size of a newborn child? Nay, nay and nay. The store is filled with "Bison" shirts, jerseys, hats, shot glasses, clocks and scarves because their "fans" want a piece of a winner...a 4x FCS FB NC winner. Has very little to do with marketing/brandind at this point. UND needs a decent nickname/logo not something pathetic and lame...although the latter is almost a given...but regardless of what is chosen anything UND _______ will sell with very little marketing/branding if Hak ever wins a NC or Bubba can resurrect the FB program and get a NC or if Jones can get his squad to the dance a time or 2. Enough with the marketing and branding blah blah blah. UND fans will buy the new logo appearal when it comes out but it will definitely sell better if UND can produce big time winners with its team...just go to Scheels in Fargo for an example.

Good post.

Did you run into any third class felons trying to pawn themselves off as representatives of the University of Agriculture and Applied Sciences?

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Michigan-M-jpg.jpg

How can THIS school manage to form a brand and identity without a wolverine logo?

 

 

The University of Michigan, with it's established lettermark (above), still has a nickname. 

 

And it has a (admittedly seldom used) logo or two of a wolverine. 

 

http://www.gamafoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/michigan-logo.gif

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b183/M33NTS/blockwolverine.png

 

 

Found at http://vpcomm.umich.edu/brand/

 

“A brand is the most valuable piece of real estate in the world: a corner of someone’s mind.” - John Hegarty

 

Michigan's brand, famous as they are, still includes the block M, a nickname, and a logo. 

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Any ambiguity about the surrender agreement as far as the policy and what 8 in violation of that policy would be construed in favor of the school/state. 

 

... in your opinion. Again, "wrong judge, wrong court, wrong day" and ... BOOM! ... UND is subject to the Policy. It comes down to the interpretation and implementation (actual or spirit) of the word "new". I make no bold predictions of how that would come out. 

 

Another court battle, and those costs, just to lose, is just digging the hole deeper. Heck, even if you win you've lost in the arena of public opinion (more public spending; the 60% of the survey that said be done with picking a new name in a year). 

 

There is one sure-fire way to make sure the phrase "new nickname" is met. 

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Went to Scheels last night in Fargo. Stored filled w everything NDSU Bison. Why? Because "Bison" is marketable and easily branded on it's own? Because the "Bison" logo is the best logo in the store? Because when "Bison" crap it's the size of a newborn child? Nay, nay and nay. The store is filled with "Bison" shirts, jerseys, hats, shot glasses, clocks and scarves because their "fans" want a piece of a winner...a 4x FCS FB NC winner. Has very little to do with marketing/brandind at this point. UND needs a decent nickname/logo not something pathetic and lame...although the latter is almost a given...but regardless of what is chosen anything UND _______ will sell with very little marketing/branding if Hak ever wins a NC or Bubba can resurrect the FB program and get a NC or if Jones can get his squad to the dance a time or 2. Enough with the marketing and branding blah blah blah. UND fans will buy the new logo appearal when it comes out but it will definitely sell better if UND can produce big time winners with its team...just go to Scheels in Fargo for an example.

So which t-shirt did you finally choose?

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Ask people with Marketing experience about the value of a brand/logo. We weren't the Fighting Sioux that was our name and logo. We were UND athletes and coaches who played for each other, our University and our fans. The new name will become the new tradition and become just as beloved as the Fighting Sioux name. You folks who keep harping that Kelly was brought here to retire the name have no clue. That was supposed to have been resolved before he got here and he didn't cause the problem. The problem started in the 1960's and over the years we as fans, the University, the tribes, the state and our communities sat on our collective rear ends and let this happen. Some of us lobbied politicians, athletic dept. officials, coach's, and. University administrators long before the NCAA stepped in to solidify the relationships with the tribes. Suggestions included putting student teachers on the reservations, having our grad students in psychology, social work, the health sciences etc. do rotations on the reservations. Having our coaches do coaches clinics and hold scrimmages on the reservations. Didn't get done. Don't tell me how important a name is. It isn't. It's only part of the tradition. You can wring your hands over the decision but quit blaming the wrong people. The name is gone. Pick almost anything reasonable and we will be fine. Keep the legislature out of it. They have messed it up enough. Quit pretending the name is sacred. It isn't and it wasn't that important to enough of our Native brethren to save it when it could have been saved. The Ben Brien logo was the coolest part of the Fighting Sioux name and I certainly wouldn't put it in the hands of people who do not have the best interest of the University as a priority. The voting is no longer relevant. Who cares what the results were. Pick a name and let's start focusing on what is in the best interest of the University and that would be a new name and logo.

 

 

giphy.gif

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The University of Michigan, with it's established lettermark (above), still has a nickname.

And it has a (admittedly seldom used) logo or two of a wolverine.

http://www.gamafoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/michigan-logo.gif

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b183/M33NTS/blockwolverine.png

Michigan's brand, famous as they are, still includes the block M, a nickname, and a logo.

The first logo in your example was retired by the university in 1987. The second logo is a concept logo and has never been an official logo of the University of Michigan.
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I don't know if that is true or not, I haven't seen a balance sheet, so I will take your word for it, There's quite a few people wearing the North Dakota jerseys at games. There's also a lot of people buying merchandise in the Sioux Shop during games. Some are in such a hurry to change to a new name, what happens if we get stuck with something that really sucks? Another two years would give the nickname committee more time to come up with an acceptable nickname. 

 

How many years does it take to pick a nickname?  So if they get two more years it won't "suck"?  

 

Time has nothing to do with it.  There are only so many nicknames out there and the future name has probably been mentioned already.  They are choosing to delay this for years when they really don't have to.  If somebody put a gun to their head and said to pick a name, they would.  

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The first logo in your example was retired by the university in 1987. The second logo is a concept logo and has never been an official logo of the University of Michigan.

 

So they've had a logo, they're exploring a new logo, and have a nickname. ;)

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