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Hypothetical Conference for UND


IrishSiouxFan

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Look how many schools participate in March Madness 65 or 66 or something like that. Out of that number only a handful has a shot at a NC, the others are mostly there to enjoy the experience of MM and to get their 40 minutes of fame. Same with football most teams know there is no shot when there was the BCS poll (which i think is gone now) So why not have tiers in basketball like they do in football. In football currently you have FBS and FCS in basketball its 300+ teams in one tier...DI. If they have the Majors play in one tier and the others in another tier then more schools would believe they have a shot at a NC. And its not about winning a NC?? Tell that to anyone who plays college sports. Or tell an olympian who comes in 4th...its not about the medals its about competing on the highest level. Sorry but IMO thats the dumbest quote I have ever heard.

No Darell everything you have typed in this thread can qualify for the dumbest thing I have ever read. The Olympian comment is the most absurd thing I have ever read. No Olympian would share that view, those people bust their ass to represent their country and compete at the highest level in their respective sport.

As for March Madness, there was a group of players on NDSU's team that gave up four years of having a shot to compete in the postseason just so they could have one shot to compete in the big dance. I think that speaks for itself.

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So, based on your logic, NDSU would have been better off in a low-level FBS bowl game, in mid-December, on a weeknight, on ESPN2, that nobody knows or cares about, with lots of empty seats in the stands, with a crappy payout that barely covers the cost of the trip than hosting three FCS playoff games and then traveling to Frisco, TX with a bunch of your fans and winning your first national football title in 21 years? Good luck with that.

No. being in a low-level bowl means little-nothing. Being in March Madness means a lot. March Madness you got a shot with the big boys in the best tournement in America. And everyone in America actually remembers the big upsets, and from time to time, a mid-major makes it to the title or the final four.

You are so far off base it is kind of sad actually.

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No. being in a low-level bowl means little-nothing. Being in March Madness means a lot. March Madness you got a shot with the big boys in the best tournement in America. And everyone in America actually remembers the big upsets, and from time to time, a mid-major makes it to the title or the final four.

You are so far off base it is kind of sad actually.

Oh really? You basically agreed with my position that being low-level FBS is not as good as being upper-level FCS. I never once mentioned basketball in my post. Not once. There has been some FBS talk on this forum from both NDSU and UND fans and I felt it was important to point out that people should be careful for what they wish for because the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence. Both UND and NDSU are in the perfect place (Division I in all sports and DI FCS in football). I guess I could live with one division of D-I basketball and I also could live with having two tiers of D-I basketball, but I think any more than that would water it down too much. As long as UND contends nationally in Men's and Women's Hockey and FCS Football, I won't complain too much about basketball not having a chance at a D-I championship.

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Oh really? You basically agreed with my position that being low-level FBS is not as good as being upper-level FCS. I never once mentioned basketball in my post. Not once. There has been some FBS talk on this forum from both NDSU and UND fans and I felt it was important to point out that people should be careful for what they wish for because the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence. Both UND and NDSU are in the perfect place (Division I in all sports and DI FCS in football). I guess I could live with one division of D-I basketball and I also could live with having two tiers of D-I basketball, but I think any more than that would water it down too much. As long as UND contends nationally in Men's and Women's Hockey and FCS Football, I won't complain too much about basketball not having a chance at a D-I championship.

Which I think there shoud be.

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No Darell everything you have typed in this thread can qualify for the dumbest thing I have ever read. The Olympian comment is the most absurd thing I have ever read. No Olympian would share that view, those people bust their ass to represent their country and compete at the highest level in their respective sport.

As for March Madness, there was a group of players on NDSU's team that gave up four years of having a shot to compete in the postseason just so they could have one shot to compete in the big dance. I think that speaks for itself.

With their goal is winning a medal (equivilant to a NC), in basketball unless you are either a major team, or maybe a mid major(even that is rare) you have very, very little chance at a NC. NDSU, UND, Summit, BSC, will never see a NC in basketball.

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No its like having a subdivision but for basketball just like football.

Sorry Darrell, but I'm going to have to agree with the bison fan on this one. If you don't want to compete with the "big boys", then why move up to DI? Will UND ever win a FBS or a NCAA Basketball title? Most likely not, at least not in my lifetime. But I'm ok with that. I like to see UND athletes competing at the highest level and hopefully being successful (ie winning conference championships, making national tournaments, and winning some tournament games as well as knocking off the "big boys" every now and then.) If you have sub divisions in every sport, you are essentially creating a new DII, DIAA, FCS, whatever you want to call it. Just realize, it wouldn't be DI. As it is now, UND is at the same level as the big schools other than football, and the excitement around UND athletics is as high as it's been in quite some time, and we have only just become playoff eligible. I would say it's even higher than when we were winning and competing for DII titles.

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Oh really? You basically agreed with my position that being low-level FBS is not as good as being upper-level FCS. I never once mentioned basketball in my post. Not once. There has been some FBS talk on this forum from both NDSU and UND fans and I felt it was important to point out that people should be careful for what they wish for because the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence. Both UND and NDSU are in the perfect place (Division I in all sports and DI FCS in football). I guess I could live with one division of D-I basketball and I also could live with having two tiers of D-I basketball, but I think any more than that would water it down too much. As long as UND contends nationally in Men's and Women's Hockey and FCS Football, I won't complain too much about basketball not having a chance at a D-I championship.

Lower level FBS doesn't get a shot playing in a fair tournement for a national title. Basketball only needs one division because if you got one great player(Woodside), you can possibly beat some top teams. Butler(Mid-Major) made it to two national championship games in a row. Basketball has a lot more parity than football and only needs one level. Football could do fine with multiple titles, just like North Dakota high school athletics.

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So, based on your logic, NDSU would have been better off in a low-level FBS bowl game, in mid-December, on a weeknight, on ESPN2, that nobody knows or cares about, with lots of empty seats in the stands, with a crappy payout that barely covers the cost of the trip than hosting three FCS playoff games and then traveling to Frisco, TX with a bunch of your fans and winning your first national football title in 21 years? Good luck with that.

My opinions on how many tiers there are in college football doesn't have anything to do with NDSU, nothing. Can I make that any clearer to you. Thanks for switching sports on me also, as I was talking about DI basketball where I believe that the current single level setup is great.

Football has two levels of Division I, and that's a good setup as I have stated . . . much better that the 3 tier scenario tha st many are suggesting. Would I want NDSU to be playing FBS football instead of FCS football, is that your question? No, I'm fine with playing DI FCS, that works good right now for NDSU.

Would I want NDSU in DII where there is a greater chance of winning national championships? Hell no, that's a small minded loser mentality.

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FBS and BCS are not two levels of Division I college football. BCS stands for Bowl Championship Series, which crowns the FBS champion.

At the same time, they are two different things. BCS teams are FBS. But not all FBS are BCS. BCS teams crown the FBS champ. Not all FBS teams have a legitimate shot at the crown.

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Lower level FBS doesn't get a shot playing in a fair tournement for a national title. Basketball only needs one division because if you got one great player(Woodside), you can possibly beat some top teams. Butler(Mid-Major) made it to two national championship games in a row. Basketball has a lot more parity than football and only needs one level. Football could do fine with multiple titles, just like North Dakota high school athletics.

Best post you've made in a long time, JohnBoy.

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Look how many schools participate in March Madness 65 or 66 or something like that. Out of that number only a handful has a shot at a NC, the others are mostly there to enjoy the experience of MM and to get their 40 minutes of fame. Same with football most teams know there is no shot when there was the BCS poll (which i think is gone now) So why not have tiers in basketball like they do in football. In football currently you have FBS and FCS in basketball its 300+ teams in one tier...DI. If they have the Majors play in one tier and the others in another tier then more schools would believe they have a shot at a NC. And its not about winning a NC?? Tell that to anyone who plays college sports. Or tell an olympian who comes in 4th...its not about the medals its about competing on the highest level. Sorry but IMO thats the dumbest quote I have ever heard.

You don't have tiers in basketball because of the player quantity and the scholarship level. Basketball at its basic scholarship level is relatively affordable vs. football. The two scholarship levels in DI football constitute a 4-5 million dollar divide when you consider the cost for both the men's and women's scholarships. Thus the reasons for DI basketball being 1 level vs. 2 in football is obvious and logical.

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At the same time, they are two different things. BCS teams are FBS. But not all FBS are BCS. BCS teams crown the FBS champ. Not all FBS teams have a legitimate shot at the crown.

Sorry, but BCS is not a level of football in DI, it is a playoff championship. Some FBS conferences have auto bids to BCS games, thus some people say that some schools are BCS schools, but they should be careful in doing so. Any school in FBS football can play in a BCS game. So does that make them BCS too? The people that throw BCS around like it is a level of football . . . simply don't know what the hell they are talking about. That is the only way to explain it!

Yes, it's hard for a team in the MWC, MAC, SB, or CUSA to play in a BCS game, but it's not impossible. It usually takes a top 10 ranking. The biggest problem with FBS football is that the smaller conferences have no automatic avenue to a playoff like FCS has. This needs to be corrected as I have stated over and over.

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Sorry, but BCS is not a level of football in DI, it is a playoff championship. Some FBS conferences have auto bids to BCS games, thus some people say that some schools are BCS schools, but they should be careful in doing so. Any school in FBS football can play in a BCS game. So does that make them BCS too? The people that throw BCS around like it is a level of football . . . simply don't know what the hell they are talking about. That is the only way to explain it!

Yes, it's hard for a team in the MWC, MAC, SB, or CUSA to play in a BCS game, but it's not impossible. It usually takes a top 10 ranking. The biggest problem with FBS football is that the smaller conferences have no automatic avenue to a playoff like FCS has. This needs to be corrected as I have stated over and over.

So what the poster was saying was the split will be BCS, than you'll have remaining FBS and FCS. At least that is how I took it. Him responding to how to further split football.

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Sorry Darrell, but I'm going to have to agree with the bison fan on this one. If you don't want to compete with the "big boys", then why move up to DI? Will UND ever win a FBS or a NCAA Basketball title? Most likely not, at least not in my lifetime. But I'm ok with that. I like to see UND athletes competing at the highest level and hopefully being successful (ie winning conference championships, making national tournaments, and winning some tournament games as well as knocking off the "big boys" every now and then.) If you have sub divisions in every sport, you are essentially creating a new DII, DIAA, FCS, whatever you want to call it. Just realize, it wouldn't be DI. As it is now, UND is at the same level as the big schools other than football, and the excitement around UND athletics is as high as it's been in quite some time, and we have only just become playoff eligible. I would say it's even higher than when we were winning and competing for DII titles.

For Basketball:

So most people would rather their team go just to say yeah we were there. And I know there are others like me who would rather the NCAA split the basketball tourny and give teams a better shot at a NC. Last non-major team to win a NC....1966 Texas Western. Last low major team to play for a NC was Jacksonville in 1970 (at least I think they are not a mid major). Odds aren't in our favor but I am sure it would be something if one day we could beat the odds.

For Football: I would like to see the FBS split have the BCS in one division, the rest of the FBS and upper FCS teams in the second division and the third division be the remaining FCS teams.

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Sorry, but BCS is not a level of football in DI, it is a playoff championship. Some FBS conferences have auto bids to BCS games, thus some people say that some schools are BCS schools, but they should be careful in doing so. Any school in FBS football can play in a BCS game. So does that make them BCS too? The people that throw BCS around like it is a level of football . . . simply don't know what the hell they are talking about. That is the only way to explain it!

Yes, it's hard for a team in the MWC, MAC, SB, or CUSA to play in a BCS game, but it's not impossible. It usually takes a top 10 ranking. The biggest problem with FBS football is that the smaller conferences have no automatic avenue to a playoff like FCS has. This needs to be corrected as I have stated over and over.

Tell that to the Boise State alumns.

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So what the poster was saying was the split will be BCS, than you'll have remaining FBS and FCS. At least that is how I took it. Him responding to how to further split football.

If the 120 teams in FBS football are going to split, then approx 60 will need to be at a different scholarship level than the other 60 schools. Please explain how that is going to happen? The top conferences in FBS football have tried to push the lower conferences out by basically doing everything possible to exclude them from the championship and taking the money, yet the bottom conferences remain at 85 scholarships and remain in FBS football. Fact is, the top conferences need the lower ones so they can get wins. Truth is, I don't see it ever splitting . . . tell me how it logically happens?

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If the 120 teams in FBS football are going to split, then approx 60 will need to be at a different scholarship level than the other 60 schools. Please explain how that is going to happen? The top conferences in FBS football have tried to push the lower conferences out by basically doing everything possible to exclude them from the championship, yet the bottom conferences remain at 85 scholarships and remain in FBS football. Fact is, the top conferences need the lower ones so they can get wins. Truth is, I don't see it ever splitting . . . tell me how it logically happens?

Not necessarily...thats where SoS come into play. If say LSU despite having their SEC conference schedule, play nothing but the other Louisiana schools (Tech, Lafayette, Monroe and even Alcorn St) their SoS will take a hit. Thats why you have #8 Michigan vs #2 Alabama in week 1, you may see these powerhouses play a weak team but they also play another big boy to up their SoS. Gotta keep the pollsters happy. Alabama vs W. Kentucky and Western Carolina is not going to help them any, and it may cost them in figuring out which 4 teams play in the playoffs.

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Not necessarily...thats where SoS come into play. If say LSU despite having their SEC conference schedule, play nothing but the other Louisiana schools (Tech, Lafayette, Monroe and even Alcorn St) their SoS will take a hit. Thats why you have #8 Michigan vs #2 Alabama in week 1, you may see these powerhouses play a weak team but they also play another big boy to up their SoS. Gotta keep the pollsters happy. Alabama vs W. Kentucky and Western Carolina is not going to help them any, and it may cost them in figuring out which 4 teams play in the playoffs.

You are using Alabama as an example? Try using Minnesota, Indiana, Colorado, Texas Tech and Kentucky. They would all get 2 wins if they are lucky if all they play is the top 60 in the nation. Football would whither on the vine for many teams in the top conferences if they are not playing to lower conferences and FCS. Alabama is going to win 10-12 games regardless of who they play, bad example.

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You are using Alabama as an example? Try using Minnesota, Indiana, Colorado, Texas Tech and Kentucky. They would all get 2 wins if they are lucky if all they play is the top 60 in the nation. Football would whither on the vine for many teams in the top conferences if they are not playing to lower conferences and FCS. Alabama is going to win 10-12 games regardless of who they play, bad example.

But wins isn't the only factor...strength of schedule is big. Look at Boise State they lost what 5 games in a decade but because of their crappy conference schedule they were left out of the BCS Title game.

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Sorry, but BCS is not a level of football in DI, it is a playoff championship. Some FBS conferences have auto bids to BCS games, thus some people say that some schools are BCS schools, but they should be careful in doing so. Any school in FBS football can play in a BCS game. So does that make them BCS too? The people that throw BCS around like it is a level of football . . . simply don't know what the hell they are talking about. That is the only way to explain it!

Yes, it's hard for a team in the MWC, MAC, SB, or CUSA to play in a BCS game, but it's not impossible. It usually takes a top 10 ranking. The biggest problem with FBS football is that the smaller conferences have no automatic avenue to a playoff like FCS has. This needs to be corrected as I have stated over and over.

BCS is a level for all intents and purposes. They play for the title. The Non-FBS (mid-majoresque) conferences, can mess with them and play a bowl game with them, but Boise and TCU etc. never had a chance to play for a title. Now they have a better chance(especially TCU being in the Big 12). But don't kid yourself, there are currently three levels on D-I football.

BCS(B1G, SEC, Big 12, Pac-12, ACC, Big East(for the time being))

FBS conferences without a shot (MWC, Sun Belt, MAC, etc.)

FCS (The rest)

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BCS is a level for all intents and purposes. They play for the title. The Non-FBS (mid-majoresque) conferences, can mess with them and play a bowl game with them, but Boise and TCU etc. never had a chance to play for a title. Now they have a better chance(especially TCU being in the Big 12). But don't kid yourself, there are currently three levels on D-I football.

BCS(B1G, SEC, Big 12, Pac-12, ACC, Big East(for the time being))

FBS conferences without a shot (MWC, Sun Belt, MAC, etc.)

FCS (The rest)

Agree!!

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