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Conference Realignments - Take 2


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12 hours ago, nodak651 said:

Matt Brown, who broke the WAC/Southland/AtlanticSun stories and some MVC news, seems to think that the MVC is targeting UTA, based on FOIA requests.  While the UTA possibility is somewhat old news now, he now thinks that Little Rock might end up in the Summit league - I assume based on new FOIA requests.  

See post #25 https://csnbbs.com/thread-924859-page-2.html
and post #58 https://csnbbs.com/thread-921547-page-3.html

 

Little Rock would make for a great travel partner if the MVC doesn't take Oral Roberts.  Little Rock would probably have the best arena in the league, imo.  What do you guys think of this?  Would Little Rock improve the league?  It would certainly be better than an Augie addition...  Travel partners could then be UST/SDSU, USD/UNO, DU/UMKC,ORU/ULR.  WIU would have to be gone obviously.

I am in the camp of one single multiple sports conference:  Lindenwood, UNC and Augie.  All of them have hockey and football.  Lindenwood brings in the St. Louis market and UNC and Augie are within the existing footprint.

Summit League Football:  UND, NDSU, SDSU, USD, UNC, Augie, W. Ill, St. Thomas and Lindenwood.

Summit League Hockey:  UND, Denver, Omaha, St. Thomas, Augie, Lindenwood, with UMD, SCSU, CC and Mankato St as affiliate members.

UND/NDSU

SDSU/USD

Augie/St Thomas

UNC/DU

Omaha/WIU

Lindenwood/UMKC

ORU....

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19 minutes ago, FSSD said:

I am in the camp of one single multiple sports conference:  Lindenwood, UNC and Augie.  All of them have hockey and football.  Lindenwood brings in the St. Louis market and UNC and Augie are within the existing footprint.

Summit League Football:  UND, NDSU, SDSU, USD, UNC, Augie, W. Ill, St. Thomas and Lindenwood.

Summit League Hockey:  UND, Denver, Omaha, St. Thomas, Augie, Lindenwood, with UMD, SCSU, CC and Mankato St as affiliate members.

UND/NDSU

SDSU/USD

Augie/St Thomas

UNC/DU

Omaha/WIU

Lindenwood/UMKC

ORU....

Gross

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1 hour ago, FSSD said:

I am in the camp of one single multiple sports conference:  Lindenwood, UNC and Augie.  All of them have hockey and football.  Lindenwood brings in the St. Louis market and UNC and Augie are within the existing footprint.

Summit League Football:  UND, NDSU, SDSU, USD, UNC, Augie, W. Ill, St. Thomas and Lindenwood.

Summit League Hockey:  UND, Denver, Omaha, St. Thomas, Augie, Lindenwood, with UMD, SCSU, CC and Mankato St as affiliate members.

UND/NDSU

SDSU/USD

Augie/St Thomas

UNC/DU

Omaha/WIU

Lindenwood/UMKC

ORU....

Not a fan at. all... and why would market size matter if a school doesn't have a national TV deal that pays per subscriber?  For example UMKC being in Kansas City doesn't really matter if nobody in KC cares about them.

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1 hour ago, nodak651 said:

Not a fan at. all... and why would market size matter if a school doesn't have a national TV deal that pays per subscriber?  For example UMKC being in Kansas City doesn't really matter if nobody in KC cares about them.

It's not about the market size from a TV marketing stand point.  It is simply to help with school exposure within that market for students and to have another recruiting area for sports.  Mr. Brown has noted that in his previous posts when discussing UT-A and ORU being potential target for the MVC.  That change would be made to get exposure within Dallas and Tulsa markets.  There is going to be a drop in college age kids in the next ten years.  Why do you think Augie/St. Thomas are looking at D1.  It about exposure to students and if you don't do it now - in 10 years it is going to be too late.

Let's looks at MVC vs Summit League.  The MVC has one very large market - Chicago and Des Moines.  The Summit League has Denver, MSP, KC, Tulsa and Omaha that are all over a million MSA.  Surprisingly the Summit League is in fairly good shape right now for market exposure.  But, it needs to be proactive in maintaining those schools.  All of those schools have flirted with the MVC.  The Summit League needs to differentiate it's self from the MVC or consolidate with the MVC (not likely).  As it is sits right now, the MVC could put the Dakota schools in a major bind fairly easily by pulling DU, St. Thomas, UMKC and/or ORU in the near future.

All of those schools are looking to push Basketball.  The MVC conference does that...  the Summit League doesn't.  So, how does The Summit League make the conference sticky for some of the schools in question plus help basketball.  It is by adding football and hockey.  Plus, the success of the Summit League schools in those sports would help the profile of the conference.  You can see this in the recent changes by the ASUN conference (adding football).  You can see this in the WAC (adding football).  You can see this in the name change to the Missouri Valley Football Conference several years ago.  It used to be named the Gateway Conference.  One of the reason for the change was basketball recruiting.  Coaching were saying that the MVC wasn't a real Division I schools because it didn't have football.  If the Summit League is going to take itself serious.  It need to move forward pushing football and hockey.  Otherwise they will be sitting behind the WAC and the MVC will poach schools (markets) as needed.  While the Dakota schools raise the profiles of those schools by having successful football programs in the MVFC.

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26 minutes ago, FSSD said:

It's not about the market size from a TV marketing stand point.  It is simply to help with school exposure within that market for students and to have another recruiting area for sports.  Mr. Brown has noted that in his previous posts when discussing UT-A and ORU being potential target for the MVC.  That change would be made to get exposure within Dallas and Tulsa markets.  There is going to be a drop in college age kids in the next ten years.  Why do you think Augie/St. Thomas are looking at D1.  It about exposure to students and if you don't do it now - in 10 years it is going to be too late.

Let's looks at MVC vs Summit League.  The MVC has one very large market - Chicago and Des Moines.  The Summit League has Denver, MSP, KC, Tulsa and Omaha that are all over a million MSA.  Surprisingly the Summit League is in fairly good shape right now for market exposure.  But, it needs to be proactive in maintaining those schools.  All of those schools have flirted with the MVC.  The Summit League needs to differentiate it's self from the MVC or consolidate with the MVC (not likely).  As it is sits right now, the MVC could put the Dakota schools in a major bind fairly easily by pulling DU, St. Thomas, UMKC and/or ORU in the near future.

All of those schools are looking to push Basketball.  The MVC conference does that...  the Summit League doesn't.  So, how does The Summit League make the conference sticky for some of the schools in question plus help basketball.  It is by adding football and hockey.  Plus, the success of the Summit League schools in those sports would help the profile of the conference.  You can see this in the recent changes by the ASUN conference (adding football).  You can see this in the WAC (adding football).  You can see this in the name change to the Missouri Valley Football Conference several years ago.  It used to be named the Gateway Conference.  One of the reason for the change was basketball recruiting.  Coaching were saying that the MVC wasn't a real Division I schools because it didn't have football.  If the Summit League is going to take itself serious.  It need to move forward pushing football and hockey.  Otherwise they will be sitting behind the WAC and the MVC will poach schools (markets) as needed.  While the Dakota schools raise the profiles of those schools by having successful football programs in the MVFC.

Football maybe but hockey is a stretch. North Dakota shouldn’t be associated with half of these schools. 

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3 hours ago, FSSD said:

It's not about the market size from a TV marketing stand point.  It is simply to help with school exposure within that market for students and to have another recruiting area for sports.  Mr. Brown has noted that in his previous posts when discussing UT-A and ORU being potential target for the MVC.  That change would be made to get exposure within Dallas and Tulsa markets.  There is going to be a drop in college age kids in the next ten years.  Why do you think Augie/St. Thomas are looking at D1.  It about exposure to students and if you don't do it now - in 10 years it is going to be too late.

Let's looks at MVC vs Summit League.  The MVC has one very large market - Chicago and Des Moines.  The Summit League has Denver, MSP, KC, Tulsa and Omaha that are all over a million MSA.  Surprisingly the Summit League is in fairly good shape right now for market exposure.  But, it needs to be proactive in maintaining those schools.  All of those schools have flirted with the MVC.  The Summit League needs to differentiate it's self from the MVC or consolidate with the MVC (not likely).  As it is sits right now, the MVC could put the Dakota schools in a major bind fairly easily by pulling DU, St. Thomas, UMKC and/or ORU in the near future.

All of those schools are looking to push Basketball.  The MVC conference does that...  the Summit League doesn't.  So, how does The Summit League make the conference sticky for some of the schools in question plus help basketball.  It is by adding football and hockey.  Plus, the success of the Summit League schools in those sports would help the profile of the conference.  You can see this in the recent changes by the ASUN conference (adding football).  You can see this in the WAC (adding football).  You can see this in the name change to the Missouri Valley Football Conference several years ago.  It used to be named the Gateway Conference.  One of the reason for the change was basketball recruiting.  Coaching were saying that the MVC wasn't a real Division I schools because it didn't have football.  If the Summit League is going to take itself serious.  It need to move forward pushing football and hockey.  Otherwise they will be sitting behind the WAC and the MVC will poach schools (markets) as needed.  While the Dakota schools raise the profiles of those schools by having successful football programs in the MVFC.

I get where you are coming from, but the schools that you want the conference to add make the conference less desirable.  Schools being in a football/all sports conference does nothing to help raise the basketball profile of these schools... on the court performance does, and these schools would most likely finish in the bottom half of the league in most years, and a school like Augi would just dillute the recruiting pool in the Twin Cities/Minnesota/Iowa/the Dakotas.  Schools like Lindenwood and Augi and UNC joining the conference would just give the better Summit programs more of a reason to bolt (DU/UNC, SDSU/Augi for example).... these schools aren't like minded or well financed, and they do not have huge fan support, and they most importantly do not provide greater access to the markets that they are in.  Few people that aren't affiliated with Lindenwood, in St. Louis, actually care about Lindenwood, so adding them would do nothing for enrollment (if a tree falls in the forest with nobody around...).  We would however lose a presence in some of our biggest recruiting areas, which association with the MVFC schools provides (paramount for fb recruiting).  The MVFC is also the strongest football conference in the country with mostly larger land grant universities... destroying that relationship helps nothing.  UND and the Dakota schools need to position themselves for the future by strengthening the Summit and in turn, closing the performance gap with MVC schools, which would give schools a reason to actually stay in the Summit.  With the public/private disfunction in the MVC, a strong relationship with schools like UNI and Illinois State could be important if the MVC ever splits. 

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I look at it this way, what is the point of adding a school in a market you want "access to" if the school in that market is viewed as small time or a joke in that market?  By associating with that school you are also viewed as a joke.  Believe me, that is the perception amongst prospective students, kids growing up in their formative years.  I grew up in Sioux City, and Morningside being in the same conference as the Dakota schools skewed my perception of the NCC schools, that they were a small time joke.  It wasn't until I actually looked into it and went through recruitment that I realized what USD, UND, SDSU, NDSU really were.  I had a higher opinion of UNI and Drake because UNI played games against Iowa State and Drake was in the Valley.  Now the perception of the Dakota schools has completely changed amongst prospective students in this area.  Adding Augustana to the conference would signal to prospective students that we're small time again.  Adding a school in a large metro area that is viewed as small time gives the perception that your school is also small time by association.

The Summit doesn't need to take on any school out of desperation.  At this point we can be selective.  We can raise the profile of the conference from within by constantly improving our programs.  We don't need outside help unless it would be a no-brainer slam dunk.  St. Thomas was a no-brainer.  If UNI called tomorrow and wanted in the Summit that would be a no-brainer.  UNC, I would pause a bit.  There might be fallout with DU with that decision.  Augustana, forget about it.  They bring nothing we don't already have, in fact, that addition would be a drag on several of our member schools.

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  • 2 weeks later...
6 hours ago, SWSiouxMN said:

If they do go (TX and OK) how long will the Big 12 last as a conference?

Looks like Kansas wants into the Big Ten now its not looking good 

 

Edit.  Iowa State is rumored to which would be intriguing from a Hockey standpoint.  I would love to see Iowa State go D1.

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feels like yesterday schools were thinking the big12 central time zone was a huuuuge draw!!!!!!!!! i think two schools in ia state and kansas state will be left pissing in the wind

 

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3 hours ago, SiouxHawkGuy said:

08F70BD4-4C70-4FE4-8364-0D3D660B1CDA.jpeg

Why would the Big 10 take ISU and KU?  Big 10 isn't going to be second fiddle behind SEC.  They are going to go bigger than ISU and KU.  They are not going to let ACC and SEC win the second round of realignment with UND, OU, TU going to those conferences without a fight.  They are going to go big against the ACC.  My guess is Virginia and UNC.  Or maybe UND in that mix. 

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3 hours ago, FSSD said:

Why would the Big 10 take ISU and KU?  Big 10 isn't going to be second fiddle behind SEC.  They are going to go bigger than ISU and KU.  They are not going to let ACC and SEC win the second round of realignment with UND, OU, TU going to those conferences without a fight.  They are going to go big against the ACC.  My guess is Virginia and UNC.  Or maybe UND in that mix. 

Kansas is a pretty huge get for basketball I think ideally they would want Kansas and Notre Dame 

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9 hours ago, cowboys5xsbs said:

Kansas is a pretty huge get for basketball I think ideally they would want Kansas and Notre Dame 

exactly....some of this realignment will eventually revolve around bball too...the SEC is untouchable when it comes to football no and if they add ou and texas it's over...the rest will have to scramble for the men's bball pie....i would see the big 10 looking to add north carolina and kansas...and maybe virginia.....

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