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The Sicatoka

Conference Realignments - Take 2

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3 hours ago, southpaw said:

Just wait until the faculty find out EWU is adding thousands of seats and millions of dollars in expenses: https://www.inlander.com/spokane/ewu-faculty-write-report-suggesting-cuts-to-athletics-budget-or-even-eliminating-it-entirely/Content?oid=19099082

This thing is written like a bad VOX article, and the quality of evidenced based research is embarrassing.  The section on social justice is comedic.  

Quote

Our current model for Athletics holds us back from embracing equity and social justice. President Cullinan has claimed that changing Athletics—at all—“would deeply affect the diversity of our campus”(Cullinan 2020), but this is problematic on many levels.

First, this comment betrays an extraordinarily narrow view of diversity. The president’s comments were widely interpreted to be focusing only on black students. On our campus we have many units involved in fostering, advocating for, and studying diversity, from the Pride Center, Multicultural Center, Office of Diversity and Inclusion, Veterans Resource Center, and Disability Support Services to Africana Studies, Chicano/Chicana Studies, American Indian Studies, Women’s and Gender Studies, and Disability Studies. Our committee interviewed several faculty and staff on campus involved in these issues, and none of them supported the president’s comments. We are also aware of past comments from student leaders, including those involved in athletics or diversity issues, critical of Eastern Athletics. Even limiting our discussion to black students, the president is ignoring the majority of our black students, who do not play varsity sports. The notion that we primarily welcome black students on our campus if they are good at football or basketball is highly problematic, and in the words of one person we interviewed, seems like “institutional racism.” The relationship of institutions, black students, and sports is one with some uncomfortable issues (Branch 2011a)

 

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8 hours ago, southpaw said:

Just wait until the faculty find out EWU is adding thousands of seats and millions of dollars in expenses: https://www.inlander.com/spokane/ewu-faculty-write-report-suggesting-cuts-to-athletics-budget-or-even-eliminating-it-entirely/Content?oid=19099082

EWU has had declining enrollment and the faculty is mad that they don’t replace retiring faculty.

FCS hasn’t helped even though they have won a championship and many playoff games.  EWU need’s to expand their attractiveness to students, and FBS can be a way.  CWU has vastly expanded enrollment over that last ten years at the D2 level, there are precious few D2 western fb schools, and CWU wants FCS soon,

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21 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

EWU has had declining enrollment and the faculty is mad that they don’t replace retiring faculty.

FCS hasn’t helped even though they have won a championship and many playoff games.  EWU need’s to expand their attractiveness to students, and FBS can be a way.  CWU has vastly expanded enrollment over that last ten years at the D2 level, there are precious few D2 western fb schools, and CWU wants FCS soon,

 

From EWU:
There are no plans at Eastern to cut our football program or change our athletic division level. @KHQLocalNews @KREM2 @SpokesmanReview @kxly4news @TheInlander @EWUEagles @EWUAthletics

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2 hours ago, SiouxHawkGuy said:

So when does Miami and Western get swapped with Mankato and Bemidji? #CCHA

hopefully tomorrow.

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7 hours ago, SiouxHawkGuy said:

So when does Miami and Western get swapped with Mankato and Bemidji? #CCHA

So the WCHA7 officially became the CCHA.

https://d2o2figo6ddd0g.cloudfront.net/l/f/aqbzrepbnzc9yb/CCHA_Press_Release.pdf

Mankato has a chance for the NCHC, but they probably need a championship.  iMHO, St Thomas has passed them if they get a new arena.  But in the meantime, St Thomas will be WCHA team #8.

https://www.inforum.com/sports/hockey/4958027-CCHA-name-revived-for-new-college-hockey-conference

https://www.mankatofreepress.com/sports/local_sports/what-s-old-is-new-hockey-conference-to-be-called/article_585c0c54-527f-11ea-bfa1-a3698335e005.html

BGSU owns the CCHA name, and there has been rumors for several years that it would restore the name, with new members.

 

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13 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

doesn't anyone want ASU or doesn't ASU want anyone?

The Alaska schools would take them right away to rebuild the WCHA.  Also, suspect Simon Fraser would join them as well as a couple of western schools that were named on this board.

Ariz St needs an arena finished before any other conference would accept them.  In the NCHC, Imagine that Western and Miami are opposed because of travel and time zone difference.  The new CCHA doesn’t want teams outside it’s footprint.

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15 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Mankato has a chance for the NCHC, but they probably need a championship.  iMHO, St Thomas has passed them if they get a new arena.  But in the meantime, St Thomas will be WCHA team #8.

More likely to happen:

NCHC and (new) CCHA make a trade (BSU/MSU-M for WMU/Miami), or

St Thomas as eighth member of CCHA7. 

 

If St Thomas to CCHA happens first, I don't see BSU and MSU-M leaving the CCHA.
But if "the trade" I speculate happens first, St Thomas is a bit isolated. 

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5 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

More likely to happen:

NCHC and (new) CCHA make a trade (BSU/MSU-M for WMU/Miami), or

St Thomas as eighth member of CCHA7. 

 

If St Thomas to CCHA happens first, I don't see BSU and MSU-M leaving the CCHA.
But if "the trade" I speculate happens first, St Thomas is a bit isolated. 

I would bet CC and DU would block MSU_M and Bemidji.  They are totally on board with ASU and St Thomas because of academics and media market.

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9 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

I would bet CC and DU would block MSU_M and Bemidji.  They are totally on board with ASU and St Thomas because of academics and media market.

The NCHC didn't form because of academics and media market and that's not going to drive the addition of new members. If it had, Notre Dame would have been a founding member of the NCHC. Instead, the new conference walked away from the Irish. New members will only be added if they've demonstrated both a significant commitment of athletic department personnel for hockey AND a significant commitment of financial resources. On ice success obviously is helpful, but to think Mankato needing to win a championship plays any role in their acceptance to the NCHC is naive.

Mankato's best chance for joining the NCHC is ASU finishing their arena. A Bemidji/Mankato for WMU/Miami trade is a net loser for the NCHC because of the money each school contributes to the conference. While the conference is now self-supporting, there are still amounts that need to be paid per school each year.

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1 hour ago, southpaw said:

The NCHC didn't form because of academics and media market and that's not going to drive the addition of new members. If it had, Notre Dame would have been a founding member of the NCHC. Instead, the new conference walked away from the Irish. New members will only be added if they've demonstrated both a significant commitment of athletic department personnel for hockey AND a significant commitment of financial resources. On ice success obviously is helpful, but to think Mankato needing to win a championship plays any role in their acceptance to the NCHC is naive.

Mankato's best chance for joining the NCHC is ASU finishing their arena. A Bemidji/Mankato for WMU/Miami trade is a net loser for the NCHC because of the money each school contributes to the conference. While the conference is now self-supporting, there are still amounts that need to be paid per school each year.

Notre Dame walked away from the NCHC's formation, saying another else is beyond naive, but what can we bring expect from southpaw.  Notre Dame hadnt done anything in hockey before that time, but yet received the royal treatment.   Miami is almost royalty in academics, and WMU isn't bad, but WMU was left waiting for ND's decision.  SCSU was scoffed at by DU and CC but it won because it was the closest school to MSP, not because of its performance to date.

UST is almost looked at as DU's twin, so it will get Colorado's votes, when an arena is built.  UST knows this isn't DIII anymore, and performance is required to get MSP attention.

ASU would be in now based on media and academics, if they had an arena.  ASU now will have two consecutive NCAA berths, and they only had enormous potential but had never demonstrated anything like southpaw said.  Same with UST.

The Big Ten and Ivy didnt form because of media and academics but because athletic events need opponents.  The Presidents reached out for similar schools to start a conference.  The same thing has been happening for 150 years.

 

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6 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Notre Dame walked away from the NCHC's formation, saying another else is beyond naive, but what can we bring expect from southpaw.  Notre Dame hadnt done anything in hockey before that time, but yet received the royal treatment.

Notre Dame "walked away" because the NCHC refused to give them what they exactly what they wanted, which is what Notre Dame is accustomed to. It had nothing to do with them not wanting to be in the conference and everything to do with how their TV rights and revenue share was handled.

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1 hour ago, jdub27 said:

Notre Dame "walked away" because the NCHC refused to give them what they exactly what they wanted, which is what Notre Dame is accustomed to. It had nothing to do with them not wanting to be in the conference and everything to do with how their TV rights and revenue share was handled.

N Dame refused to be an actual partner and the NCHC was not high faluting enough for them, as they took their own deal with bigger name name schools like BC, UConn, Providence and the Hockey East with a separate NBC Sports deal.  The NCHC was just too low of a conference in name to be associated with and besmirch their precious name just for hockey.  But then walked away for similar deal the Big Ten and NBC Sports, which most had never assumed they would do as ND and the BIG are mortal enemies.

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Well it looks like it worked out for Notre Dame.  They play in the beautiful Compton Family Arena, are members of the Big Ten in hockey, made the Frozen Four in 2017 & 2018 and Big Ten titles in 2018 & 2019,  and have their own deal with NBC Sports that gives them a national TV audience.  They got everything they wanted.

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My understanding is that the only hold up between Notre Dame and the NCHC was the NBC Sports deal Notre Dame wanted to maintain.  It makes sense that Notre Dame wasn't willing to do anything to harm their relationship with NBC due to their long history together and the amount of money involved.  In my opinion, the NCHC should have bent on that or worked with Notre Dame to get the whole NCHC on NBCSN.  NBCSN would have been a vast upgrade when compared to CBSSN.  NBCSN is available in way more homes and on the regular Midco cable packages.  Another plus is NBCSN is the same channel NHL is on. 

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4 hours ago, andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!! said:

My understanding is that the only hold up between Notre Dame and the NCHC was the NBC Sports deal Notre Dame wanted to maintain.  It makes sense that Notre Dame wasn't willing to do anything to harm their relationship with NBC due to their long history together and the amount of money involved.  In my opinion, the NCHC should have bent on that or worked with Notre Dame to get the whole NCHC on NBCSN.  NBCSN would have been a vast upgrade when compared to CBSSN.  NBCSN is available in way more homes and on the regular Midco cable packages.  Another plus is NBCSN is the same channel NHL is on. 

I think part of the issue was that it would be pretty much all Notre Dame games though, right?  Not really a true league-wide contract like we have with CBS.

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1 hour ago, nodak651 said:

I think part of the issue was that it would be pretty much all Notre Dame games though, right?  Not really a true league-wide contract like we have with CBS.

Bingo. But what would I know about the NCHC, I'm just naive about what happened with Notre Dame. 

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My point was that the NCHC didn’t form on basic hockey principles and history, but on economic and academic viability.  If hockey history and passion were so important,, where is Michigan Tech?  Michigan Tech has rigorous academics, and a major endowment, but doesn’t have a viable media base.

Notre Dame even gets a special deal from the P5,  and they are not going to be equal to a bunch of hockey schools.

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6 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

My point was that the NCHC didn’t form on basic hockey principles and history, but on economic and academic viability.  If hockey history and passion were so important,, where is Michigan Tech?  Michigan Tech has rigorous academics, and a major endowment, but doesn’t have a viable media base.

Notre Dame even gets a special deal from the P5,  and they are not going to be equal to a bunch of hockey schools.

You literally posted that Mankato likely needs to win a championship to get into the NCHC. What does that have to do with the economic and academic viability you are now touting. 

The NCHC was formed once the writing was on the wall that the B1G teams were leaving the WCHA. That meant there were a significant number of schools still in the conference who didn't have a history of prioritizing hockey: the Alaskas, Bemidji, Mankato, Tech, and SCSU.

The other 5 started discussions with Miami, Western, and Notre Dame. The Irish had their NBCSN deal which the nchc coveted but not if it wasn't going to be an even split. After months of discussions, the NCHC schools said no to Notre Dame's demands one last time.

That left 7 schools and they needed an 8th. Looking at the options at the time, you realistically only had SCSU and maybe Ferris St and BG. St Cloud had already shown more financial commitment to hockey compared to the other two so they were added. 

None of it had to do with winning or media market like you say are why St Thomas and ASU will be added. The future of the NCHC is with schools in the region who improve the commitment to hockey.

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51 minutes ago, southpaw said:

You literally posted that Mankato likely needs to win a championship to get into the NCHC. What does that have to do with the economic and academic viability you are now touting. 

The NCHC was formed once the writing was on the wall that the B1G teams were leaving the WCHA. That meant there were a significant number of schools still in the conference who didn't have a history of prioritizing hockey: the Alaskas, Bemidji, Mankato, Tech, and SCSU.

The other 5 started discussions with Miami, Western, and Notre Dame. The Irish had their NBCSN deal which the nchc coveted but not if it wasn't going to be an even split. After months of discussions, the NCHC schools said no to Notre Dame's demands one last time.

That left 7 schools and they needed an 8th. Looking at the options at the time, you realistically only had SCSU and maybe Ferris St and BG. St Cloud had already shown more financial commitment to hockey compared to the other two so they were added. 

None of it had to do with winning or media market like you say are why St Thomas and ASU will be added. The future of the NCHC is with schools in the region who improve the commitment to hockey.

Championships build fan bases.  It's rather simple.  Mankato isn't that popular now but if it won, it's economic viability vastly increases.  Another stupid comment by a self professed expert.

Michigan Tech renovated their arena and has won three championships, but Upper Michigan simply doesn't have enough people.  Tech's graduates mostly live in Lower Michigan and rarely congregate except in Detroit for hockey 

Tech has a proven hockey commitment which you deny, so throw your opinions out as they are garbage.

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