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Conference Realignments - Take 2


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In a couple of years when the MVC is a solid one bid league, the Shocker basketball credits run out, and that bisects with the P5/FBS split I predict there will be some upheaval for the Valley and the

We agree on something. Cool. The talk of GCU is scary. They are a for profit school who have already settled one, very large lawsuit accusing them of being a diploma mill, admitting and graduating peo

Except not really. 

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9 hours ago, noquestion said:

Basically you have no proof of the contract ... 

SV is correct on the contract language. I saw it. I read it. I can no longer find the link either. 

It stipulated that if (by name) Montana, Montana State, and North Dakota were not in the Big Sky on the date Idaho was to join Idaho could renege on joining with no penalty and get their deposit back in full. Just those three schools were specifically named. 

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10 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

A CSNBBS poster had the bylaws and posted the one year and two year exit fee waived parts.

You're going to need to come up with a new theory that excludes the timeline you previously provided. Unless something changed in the last two years (which would require a 2/3's vote), that information is wrong. There is absolutely no distinction between the time periods for Olympic sports and football. From the 2014-2015 Big Sky Constitution:

Quote

Section 5.
A. WITHDRAWAL
1. A member institution may withdraw from the Conference upon written notice to the Commissioner and each president of its intention to withdraw by July 1 prior to the commencement of the year in which withdrawal shall be effective. A member institution may withdraw from the Conference upon written notice to all Conference members by the President of the withdrawing institution at least one year prior to the effective date of withdrawal.
2. An institution that has forwarded to the NCAA National office written notice of its intention to change its football membership classification from Division IAA (FCS) to Division IA (FBS) prior to the completion of its final football season with the Conference shall be ineligible to compete for the Big Sky Conference Football Championship. This is effective on the date the institution’s written notice is received by the NCAA office.
3. An institution that has announced its intention to withdraw from the Conference is not eligible to receive a regular (i.e., television, championships revenue, surplus, etc.) or special (i.e., new initiative funding, etc.) distribution made from the Conference to its membership, effective immediately upon written notice of intent to withdraw.
4. An institution that has announced its intention to withdraw shall not vote on issues affecting future Conference operation or policy.
5. All scheduled commitments of the withdrawing institution with other member institutions of the Conference shall be honored or fulfilled unless dissolved by mutual agreement of the affected member institutions

B. FAILURE TO PROVIDE NOTIFICATION
The failure of an institution to provide proper notification will result in the Conference, by a majority vote of its members, excluding all teams from the withdrawing institution from participation in any remaining Big Sky Championships.
1. An Institution that fails to provide proper notification will pay a non-refundable $1,000,000 fee to the Conference.
a.) The Presidents’ Council, by a two-thirds (2/3) vote of those institutions eligible to vote, may reduce, restructure, or waive the payment required if extenuating circumstances warrant consideration.

 

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7 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

You're going to need to come up with a new theory that excludes the timeline you previously provided. Unless something changed in the last two years (which would require a 2/3's vote), that information is wrong. There is absolutely no distinction between the time periods for Olympic sports and football. From the 2014-2015 Big Sky Constitution:

 

Bylaws do change.  Don't think he was BS-ing  

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14 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

Bylaws do change.  Don't think he was BS-ing  

They would have had to have been changed in 2015/16 or 2016/17 and there was no compelling reason to change them and even then, require 2/3's to go along with it. Unless you can actually provide hard proof, than there is zero reason to believe they changed. I also feel like any change would have been reported somewhere or at least on an agenda and would have been mentioned. 

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10 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Kolpack wants the NCC back.  He seems worried.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/4289881-kolpack-rate-old-ncc-may-come-back-dead

Too many schools don't have baseball or men's soccer for that to work.  FCS football at Minnesota schools seems impossible.

I never got the whole ripping on the Summit for being the "NCC 2.0".  Back in the D2 days, the NCC was the best, most competitive, dominant conference in all of D2.  And that was rue for many sports.  Especially WBB and FB.  Nothing wrong with having a D1 version of the NCC cause the NCC was a great conference.  And so can the Summit!!

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I would add Northern Colorado for Denver's travel partner adds baseball and possible sixth football if needed.Also helps push PUFW and WIU out the door maybe ORU. Not that they won't already be looking.Travel partners academics and fan interest are the qualities a conference will be looking for in new members.Idaho was fourth in ESPN3 numbers in the SBC. The Montana and Dakota schools have good numbers on ESPN3 compared to the usual directional commuter school.Flying to Fargo and bussing to Grand Forks or flying to Spokane and bussing to Moscow is how travel partners save money.

Denver-UNC

NDSU-UND

SDSU-USD

Montana-MSU

Idaho-EWU

ORU-UNM

Nine for football eight game schedule

 Twelve for a twenty two game conference schedule basketball schedule.

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18 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

 

Seems you missed or failed to understand what SV said: Losing IPFW means losing a baseball and a men's soccer team. That puts each of those at 5 teams in Summit League play. That's not enough conference teams playing the sports to allow for a MBB autobid. 

See NCAA Division I manual sections 31.3.4.5 and 20.02.5 if you don't believe me. :) 

The key is in 20.02.5.2 (b): 

Lose IPFW and you fall below six in baseball and men's soccer. And thus the MBB autobid goes "poof!". 

So why doesn't cross country or track and field (indoor and outdoor) count as the other 2 sports that must have 6? 

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16 minutes ago, MJG said:

I would add Northern Colorado for Denver's travel partner adds baseball and possible sixth football if needed.Also helps push PUFW and WIU out the door maybe ORU. Not that they won't already be looking.Travel partners academics and fan interest are the qualities a conference will be looking for in new members.Idaho was fourth in ESPN3 numbers in the SBC. The Montana and Dakota schools have good numbers on ESPN3 compared to the usual directional commuter school.Flying to Fargo and bussing to Grand Forks or flying to Spokane and bussing to Moscow is how travel partners save money.

Denver-UNC

NDSU-UND

SDSU-USD

Montana-MSU

Idaho-EWU

ORU-UNM

Nine for football eight game schedule

 Twelve for a twenty two game conference schedule basketball schedule.

More than four members can't be taken from the Big Sky or else it will be destroyed.  The future Summit needs a friendly relationship with them.   Don't need a vindictive and nasty fights like the old WAC vs MWC, which was a fight to the death.

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7 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

So why doesn't cross country or track and field (indoor and outdoor) count as the other 2 sports that must have 6? 

In individual sports, too many schools only have a few athletes, so it is easy to be very cheap. Two men's team sports is still cheaper in most cases than fielding a football team.  Staying DI isn't meant to be easy for cheap schools.

Team sports need almost a full roster, making it more difficult to be chintzy.

One could get a low scholarship sport like men's volleyball started (max 4 scholarships), but even that has maybe 18 total players.

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28 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

So why doesn't cross country or track and field (indoor and outdoor) count as the other 2 sports that must have 6? 

Per the NCAA Manual:

Quote

31.3.4.6 Sports Groupings for Automatic Qualification. For purposes of evaluating criteria for automatic qualification, the various sports shall be grouped as follows:
(a) Team Sports—baseball, bowling, basketball, field hockey, football, ice hockey, lacrosse, rowing, soccer, softball, volleyball and water polo. In this category, subject to the approval of the Council, a sport committee may grant exceptions to the six-team requirement for sports that are sponsored by less than 30 percent of the membership, provided the conference previously included six teams that sponsored the sport;
(b) Timed Individual Sports—indoor track and field, outdoor track and field, and swimming; and
(c) Other Individual Sports—cross country, fencing, golf, gymnastics, rifle, skiing, tennis and wrestling. In this category, a sports committee may grant exceptions to the six-team requirement, subject to the approval of the Council. 

A conference that doesn't have football must sponsor at least two team sports, excluding basketball, in order to be considered an eligible conference and auto bids to national tournaments.

Quote

20.02.5 Multisport Conference. A Division I multisport conference shall satisfy the requirements of this section.

20.02.5.1 Minimum Number of Members. A multisport conference shall be composed of at least seven active Division I members. The member conference shall include at least seven active Division I members that sponsor both men’s and women’s basketball. 

20.02.5.2 Sports Sponsorship. A multisport conference shall satisfy the following requirements:
(a) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of 12 Division I sports;
(b) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six men’s sports, one of which shall be men’s basketball. In addition to men’s basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men’s team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor men’s basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including football or two additional men’s team sports; and
(c) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six women’s sports, one of which shall be women’s basketball. In addition to women’s basketball, the conference shall sponsor two other women’s team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor women’s basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including two additional women’s team sports (or a minimum of five members for an emerging sport for women).


Currently the Summit maintains its autobid on the men's side by sponsoring Soccer and Baseball. I would not be surprised to see UNC finally get accepted as an affiliate member for baseball if they are not looked at for a full time membership. This is were Douple dropped the ball big time a few years ago. Not sure if it would have saved UND baseball, but it definitely wouldn't have hurt their case.

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56 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

So why doesn't cross country or track and field (indoor and outdoor) count as the other 2 sports that must have 6? 

TEAM sports. Basketball, football, baseball, hockey, soccer. 

What you list are considered individual sports. 

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12 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Not enough. Only three Summit schools play hockey so it wouldn't count as a conference sponsored team sport. 

If the other schools are added as affiliate members for hockey, wouldn't that cover it? I didn't see if there was a requirement for how many full members have to sponsor a sport, though I wouldn't be surprised if there was one.

After IUPUI leaves, the Summit will have 6 soccer teams, but only 5 of them are full members (EIU as an affiliate), thus still in compliance.

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2 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

If the other schools are added as affiliate members for hockey, wouldn't that cover it? I didn't see if there was a requirement for how many full members have to sponsor a sport, though I wouldn't be surprised if there was one.

After IUPUI leaves, the Summit will have 6 soccer teams, but only 5 of them are full members (EIU as an affiliate), thus still in compliance.

Still trying to see where it says if a conference doesn't have 2 other mens sports (besides MBB) that it loses its autobid in ALL mens sports.  Obviously they would lose it for that individual sport.  But, if they don't meet the MBB + 2 team sports requirement of 6 schools, where does it say they lose the autobid for all?

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39 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

Still trying to see where it says if a conference doesn't have 2 other mens sports (besides MBB) that it loses its autobid in ALL mens sports.  Obviously they would lose it for that individual sport.  But, if they don't meet the MBB + 2 team sports requirement of 6 schools, where does it say they lose the autobid for all?

 

20 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

See NCAA Division I manual sections 31.3.4.5 and 20.02.5 if you don't believe me. :) 

The key is in 20.02.5.2 (b): 

MBB plus FB or MBB plus 2 men's team sports is the requirement to be a core conference.
You must have core conference status to be awarded a MBB autobid. 

The only thing that matters is that MBB ($$$$$!!!) autobid. 

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