Conference Realignments - Take 2

[darell1976]

10 minutes ago, Yote 53 said:

This is actually the reason why the non-MVC schools should oppose an addition of a school like Murray State to the MVFC if they are offered MVC status. Other than the fact they are a weak football school, it would also give the MVC 6 football playing schools allowing them to break off and form their own MVC football conference which would cement their auto bid status with the NCAA.

Actually, we can't do anything about it.  The MVC schools could just break on their own, add Murray State, and start MVC football.  I wouldn't be shocked if that happened to be honest.  It's no secret those schools put basketball first and complain about having to travel to the Dakotas.  They could easily form their own 7 team conference with YSU.

I'm starting to think Summit Football needs to happen once UND joins the Summit.  Do it with a friendly scheduling alliance with the MVC + Murray State for some built in OOC games.  Coax UNC over to an all-sport Summit FCS conference with Denver as their basketball travel partner.  Solves all our problems and everybody gets what they want.  Solidifies the auto bid and we don't have to talk about Augustana or UMKC ever again.

We are already in the Summit, since July 1.

[southpaw]

30 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

We are already in the Summit, since July 1.

But football isn't yet.

[dmksioux]

Just now, southpaw said:

But football isn't yet.

Nor will it be...since Summit football doesn't exist...yet.

[nodak651]

I hope the MVC breaks away.  Would create talks with the Montana Schools and Idaho for football.  Don't see either happening, though.

[kiyoat]

5 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

SIU and eastern schools which were affiliated dropped tennis so the other MVC schools were forced to move for that sport.  The Summit was a convience, nothing more.

Tennis and and swimming aren’t team sports, so gaining them don’t protect the autobid for NCAA purposes

I didn't realize that the MVC was down to just three men's tennis teams.  That worked out well for us, since the Jacks cut that sport as well.

Now I understand about the team sport requirement (I looked it up).  A "Division 1 Multi-sport conference" must sponsor a minimum 6 men's and 6 women's sports.  three of the men's and three of the women's must be "team sports" and must include basketball.

So right now we are fine on the 6-and-6, but our men's "team sport" requirement is just barely being met, with 9 BB teams, 6 Baseball and 6 Soccer.  We lose Fort Wayne and we would have both a Baseball problem AND a men's soccer problem.  Eastern Illinois is an affiliate men's soccer school that we can't afford to lose, either.

Sponsoring football would count the same as 2 team sports, so we could fall below 6 in either baseball or soccer.  That would give us more flexibility to meet the auto-bid requirements.  Let's do it.  Northern Colorado brings both football and baseball.  10 teams.  Done.

Here's the current NCAA rule on conference requirements:

http://image.cdnllnwnl.xosnetwork.com/attachments1/files/11600/628372.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=11600

(Section 20.02.5) "Multisport Conference"

[SiouxVolley]

5 hours ago, kiyoat said:

I didn't realize that the MVC was down to just three men's tennis teams.  That worked out well for us, since the Jacks cut that sport as well.

Now I understand about the team sport requirement (I looked it up).  A "Division 1 Multi-sport conference" must sponsor a minimum 6 men's and 6 women's sports.  three of the men's and three of the women's must be "team sports" and must include basketball.

So right now we are fine on the 6-and-6, but our men's "team sport" requirement is just barely being met, with 9 BB teams, 6 Baseball and 6 Soccer.  We lose Fort Wayne and we would have both a Baseball problem AND a men's soccer problem.  Eastern Illinois is an affiliate men's soccer school that we can't afford to lose, either.

Sponsoring football would count the same as 2 team sports, so we could fall below 6 in either baseball or soccer.  That would give us more flexibility to meet the auto-bid requirements.  Let's do it.  Northern Colorado brings both football and baseball.  10 teams.  Done.

Here's the current NCAA rule on conference requirements:

http://image.cdnllnwnl.xosnetwork.com/attachments1/files/11600/628372.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=11600

(Section 20.02.5) "Multisport Conference"

Northern Colorado won’t move because, unlike DII days, when UNC needed strong DII competition, it now needs more student enrollment and alumni engagement.  UNC will stay west for more awareness among prospective parents and students.  ORU would be wise to look at the WAC, which has a territory with millions more people that are charismatic Christian, which ORU practices and preaches.  Neither school have many alumni in the Dakotas or Nebraska, which is another downfall of the Summit.  A school like SIUE chose the OVC over the Summit because of those factors.  The Summit is a lot stronger than the OVC, but it almost always loses the beauty competition between the two.  The Horizon also beats the Summit League in the beauty completion, at least for schools east of the Mississippi.

Just don’t see how the Summit survives in its current form without football and without the Montanas and Idaho.

[kiyoat]

I don't mind the idea of merging with the Big Sky, but I'm not sure what their motivation would be to do that.  I suppose you could say that they have extended offers to all of the Dakota 4 in the past, but would they want the rest of the Summit?  Maybe not.  We would have to join them and leave the Summit.

Denver and ORU have one foot out the door anyway.  Fort Wayne would be better served in the Horizon.  Omaha wishes they were in the MVC.  That leaves WIU.  Financials may force their hand into the OVC.

I guess I could see that happening, other than having to lose the SLT in Sioux Falls.  Maybe they would do a rotating neutral site between Boise and SF?  That would be interesting.  Travel partners for a "Northern Plains" division: MT/MT St, UNC/Denver, UND/NDSU, USD/SDSU.  Or switch Omaha for Denver.

Big Sky would go from 11 full members to 16.  perfect for 2 divisions.  One big negative would be travel costs would go up, but UND has already experienced that and survived.

[kiyoat]

The Dakota 4's sponsored sports would align very well with the Big Sky.  Football removes the need for Men's soccer (which none of us have) AND Baseball (XDSU's could then drop).  focusing resources on the two more-profitable men's team sports just makes sense.

[JohnboyND7]

12 minutes ago, kiyoat said:

The Dakota 4's sponsored sports would align very well with the Big Sky.  Football removes the need for Men's soccer (which none of us have) AND Baseball (XDSU's could then drop).  focusing resources on the two more-profitable men's team sports just makes sense.

I don't think NDSU really can cut any sports.

[Yote 53]

29 minutes ago, kiyoat said:

I don't mind the idea of merging with the Big Sky, but I'm not sure what their motivation would be to do that.  I suppose you could say that they have extended offers to all of the Dakota 4 in the past, but would they want the rest of the Summit?  Maybe not.  We would have to join them and leave the Summit.

Denver and ORU have one foot out the door anyway.  Fort Wayne would be better served in the Horizon.  Omaha wishes they were in the MVC.  That leaves WIU.  Financials may force their hand into the OVC.

I guess I could see that happening, other than having to lose the SLT in Sioux Falls.  Maybe they would do a rotating neutral site between Boise and SF?  That would be interesting.  Travel partners for a "Northern Plains" division: MT/MT St, UNC/Denver, UND/NDSU, USD/SDSU.  Or switch Omaha for Denver.

Big Sky would go from 11 full members to 16.  perfect for 2 divisions.  One big negative would be travel costs would go up, but UND has already experienced that and survived.

You do this and you are giving an NCAA tournament auto bid back to the NCAA.  It would be better for all involved for some Big Sky teams to join the Summit and we set up a very nice scheduling alliance in all sports between the two conferences that would address the travel concerns for all involved.  We all play a lot of BSC teams OOC the way it is right now, and BSC teams travel over here as well.  I've never really bought the "travel" issue for that reason, because our OOC games are out West, down South, and in the case of basketball all over the country.  Look at softball and baseball, those sports spend the early part of the season touring the South, USD volleyball just spent a bunch of time out in California and traveling for an OOC schedule, but you're going to tell me that "travel" is an issue.  We'd just be substituting OOC travel for in-conference travel.  

A Summit league with the Montanas, UNC, and Idahos with a very tight scheduling alliance with the far west Big Sky makes the most sense when viewed in that prism.

[kiyoat]

53 minutes ago, Yote 53 said:

You do this and you are giving an NCAA tournament auto bid back to the NCAA.  It would be better for all involved for some Big Sky teams to join the Summit and we set up a very nice scheduling alliance in all sports between the two conferences that would address the travel concerns for all involved.  We all play a lot of BSC teams OOC the way it is right now, and BSC teams travel over here as well.  I've never really bought the "travel" issue for that reason, because our OOC games are out West, down South, and in the case of basketball all over the country.  Look at softball and baseball, those sports spend the early part of the season touring the South, USD volleyball just spent a bunch of time out in California and traveling for an OOC schedule, but you're going to tell me that "travel" is an issue.  We'd just be substituting OOC travel for in-conference travel.  

A Summit league with the Montanas, UNC, and Idahos with a very tight scheduling alliance with the far west Big Sky makes the most sense when viewed in that prism.

I guess then we are back to motivation.  The Montanas are the founding core of the Big Sky.  It’s named after their state.  I doubt they would be interested in leaving it.  Kind of like the Big 10 trying to add North Carolina from the ACC.

[The Sicatoka]

2 hours ago, JohnboyND7 said:

I don't think NDSU really can cut any sports.

Yes and no. 

NDSU is at 16 sports (remember: T&F is 2 teams, indoor, outdoor).
That's the minimum for Division I ... FBS. 

The Division I FCS minimum is 14. 

[Yote 53]

You know it might just be easier and cheaper for USD and other schools to add men's soccer and/or baseball programs.  Nobody says they have to be very good or funded very well, just that they exist and can "count" towards the requirement to keep the autobid. 

[The Sicatoka]

2 hours ago, Yote 53 said:

I've never really bought the "travel" issue for that reason, because our OOC games are out West, down South, and in the case of basketball all over the country. 

I got in trouble once for pointing that out.
What's the difference if you play conference games in MT, CO, ID, WA and non-conference in IA, NE, ND, SD or vice versa. 
Either way you had to travel to all of them. 

[SWSiouxMN]

2 minutes ago, Yote 53 said:

You know it might just be easier and cheaper for USD and other schools to add men's soccer and/or baseball programs.  Nobody says they have to be very good or funded very well, just that they exist and can "count" towards the requirement to keep the autobid. 

Given the movement towards soccer as a sport at the high school level, I think it is only a matter of time before one of the Dakota 4 adds a men's team.

If UND was ever in a position to add a sport, that's the one I want them to add. 

[SiouxVolley]

35 minutes ago, SWSiouxMN said:

Given the movement towards soccer as a sport at the high school level, I think it is only a matter of time before one of the Dakota 4 adds a men's team.

If UND was ever in a position to add a sport, that's the one I want them to add. 

College soccer doesn’t bring big crowds or much talent, as talented youngsters go directly to MLS development teams.  Even soccer fans don’t go to the games like MLS teams, as there is a big shindig about getting an expansion MLS team now for cities now.  Even the SEC doesn’t sponsor men’s soccer (only Kentucky and South Carolina have it) and thy have a cable network that consumes much programming and provides mega dollars.  NCAA men’s soccer just doesn’t have drawing power anywhere near like college football.  Lacrosse is a much more likely addition for fb playing schools if adding a sport.

[SiouxVolley]

4 hours ago, kiyoat said:

I don't mind the idea of merging with the Big Sky, but I'm not sure what their motivation would be to do that.  I suppose you could say that they have extended offers to all of the Dakota 4 in the past, but would they want the rest of the Summit?  Maybe not.  We would have to join them and leave the Summit.

Denver and ORU have one foot out the door anyway.  Fort Wayne would be better served in the Horizon.  Omaha wishes they were in the MVC.  That leaves WIU.  Financials may force their hand into the OVC.

I guess I could see that happening, other than having to lose the SLT in Sioux Falls.  Maybe they would do a rotating neutral site between Boise and SF?  That would be interesting.  Travel partners for a "Northern Plains" division: MT/MT St, UNC/Denver, UND/NDSU, USD/SDSU.  Or switch Omaha for Denver.

Big Sky would go from 11 full members to 16.  perfect for 2 divisions.  One big negative would be travel costs would go up, but UND has already experienced that and survived.

The league won’t merge, as it would effectively give each school about half the NCAA dance income.  President are smarter than that as the bids will get maximized, not minimized..

Also believe that Denver and Omaha are fully in as UND is now a part of the Summit, as they all have hockey as an important part of their budgets.  Both Denver and Omaha would need to be Creighton or Wichita St level basketball before they get other conference offers that tear up that hockey partnership, even though it is not in the Summit.

The Big Sky is too big, but yet the Central Washington President is saying a western DI bid is upcoming in 2020.so they are expanding their fb stadium, which is happening.  Only the Big Sky has FCS in the West that could offer CWU a spot.  The Montanas, Idaho and Weber St have had the preeminent athletic and academic programs in the Big Sky and they are tired of being associated with relatively weak academic programs and with commuter and suitcase schools.  Put on a President cap and that’s what the answer is for the Summit.  EWU has been good athletically, but has no alumni base financial support so CWU is the next best thing to Montana or Idaho.

[southpaw]

10 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

The Big Sky is too big, but yet the Central Washington President is saying a western DI bid is upcoming in 2020.

Source?

[Goon]

5 hours ago, southpaw said:

Source?

There isn't one. He's using an Ouija board. 

[Siouxphan27]

7 hours ago, southpaw said:

Source?

[Hammersmith]

1 hour ago, Goon said:

There isn't one. He's using an Ouija board. 

Snopes would grade his claim as mostly false. On Jan 17 of this year, a freelance HS scout from the northwest claimed in a tweet that the CWU president announced that the university intended to become a "DI FCS capacity school by 2020-2021". When asked by others for a source, the scout didn't reply.

So two big problems. First, we have no confirmation that the president actually said this. The tweet mentions a video interview and a press release. But because the scout didn't reply, we don't know who the interview was supposedly with and can't confirm it. And there's no record I can find of the press release. The current CWU website doesn't go back that far, and a google news search of January doesn't turn up anything. You'd think something this big would have caused some ripples that google news would have picked up.

Second, the president is only claimed to have said to be going for DI FCS capacity. There's a big difference between being ready for FCS and anticipating an invite is coming. Volley will likely claim that why would a president set a date without having insider knowledge of an invite. I would counter by suggesting that a big goal needs a time target or it's just a wish, not a goal. And that 2020 is both a nice round number and something somewhat achievable.

Why might CWU be considering this? Well, they need a backup plan. With Humboldt State dropping football next year(it was only confirmed in July, but it was being talked about in Jan), that only leaves four FB teams left in the GNAC. There are some mild stadium upgrades going on now* that you can infer to mean that CWU plans to keep football. So something's gotta give. Either the GNAC needs more FB teams, or CWU needs to change division. I suspect their preferred choice is to get more DII FB teams, but they can't count on that.

So, was Volley truthful? Not really. As is his MO, he stretched a questionable nugget of info past its breaking point and twisted the truth into a falsehood. IMO, of course. 

 

 

*There's a $10.4M project going on, but it's mostly just a refresh. The football stadium is getting new turf and lights, plus some minor amenity upgrades like renovated entry gates, bathrooms, and box office. The stadium upgrades will allow soccer and rugby to use the facility(expanding the field size by removing the surrounding track). The rest of the project is a new outdoor T&F facility with a recreational field in the infield.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/NW_Spotlight/status/953756990056022016

http://www.cwu.edu/north-campus/

[SiouxVolley]

Where is our other troll /curmudgeon (bizon73) to weigh(t) in?  

The Eastern Washington board has much more details for the illiterates like Goon.  EWU fans say the CWU President said a DI invite is coming via video.  Didn’t remember the exact details but the EWU board has them.

https://bigskyfans.com/eagles/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4793

[Goon]

21 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Where is our other troll /curmudgeon (bizon73) to weigh(t) in?  

The Eastern Washington board has much more details for the illiterates like Goon.  EWU fans say the CWU President said a DI invite is coming via video.  Didn’t remember the exact details but the EWU board has them.

https://bigskyfans.com/eagles/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4793

SiouxVolley in a nutshell. 

 

[Hammersmith]

21 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Where is our other troll /curmudgeon (bizon73) to weigh(t) in?  

The Eastern Washington board has much more details for the illiterates like Goon.  EWU fans say the CWU President said a DI invite is coming via video.  Didn’t remember the exact details but the EWU board has them.

https://bigskyfans.com/eagles/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4793

Nope, no more details because the EWU board is using the same source. They link to the same tweet from the scout, and a news article about the same stadium plans. So far, everything comes back to that same questionable tweet.

[SiouxVolley]

3 hours ago, Goon said:

SiouxVolley in a nutshell. 

 

You must get a lot of that thrown at you for your insipid pointless hockey blog.